Block Filler questions.

Block Filler questions.

Joined: April 12th, 2004, 6:14 pm

September 1st, 2013, 8:55 pm #1

Per my original post about building a Clevor. I want to make sure that I don't leave any stones unturned here. If I can Use a cleveland block and get what I need, It would be cheaper and easier for me to do so.

I need to keep this motor streetable. I want to be able to sell this car some day and streetable cars sell a lot better that race cars do.

How much can I fill the block and still circulate enough water to keep the motor cool, yet get the cyl support that I need. I understand that most heat is created in the heads. But I have also read posts on other forums that after filling blocks, people have had trouble with cooling. Any thoughts on this? I have a large 2 row aluminum radiator, and a Mazire electric pump now. No cooling issues with my current motor, even when "hot lapped"

I have also read that filled blocks will cause your oil temps to run hot. Will I need to run an oil cooler?

A lot of the info that was presented in my last post pertained to early pro stock work. Racing chassis, motor plates, etc. My chassis is basically a stock eliminator chassis. I use bolts factory motor mounts. Can anyone comment on how effective the filled block is when used in a mostly stock chassis?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 13th, 2006, 4:59 am

September 1st, 2013, 9:16 pm #2

Most fill blocks to within 1" of deck . Some have filled to the half cylinder mark also. My last to blocks were 1", when we dynoed we seen high oil temps( 240 ish) but the Dyno guy figured in street or drag car they be lucky to hit 200 which would be livable. He suggested a finned oil pan would likely really keep it cool. My car is not plated and uses the factory mounts. I think you would be fine. Maybe install oil temp guage and see where your oil gets. I put a 557 ford together for buddy that's cemented in a mud truck. He says he has to heat cycle engine for half an hr to get oil temp above 160? He figured it would run through traffic without getting hot.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 26th, 2002, 1:52 am

September 1st, 2013, 10:22 pm #3

Per my original post about building a Clevor. I want to make sure that I don't leave any stones unturned here. If I can Use a cleveland block and get what I need, It would be cheaper and easier for me to do so.

I need to keep this motor streetable. I want to be able to sell this car some day and streetable cars sell a lot better that race cars do.

How much can I fill the block and still circulate enough water to keep the motor cool, yet get the cyl support that I need. I understand that most heat is created in the heads. But I have also read posts on other forums that after filling blocks, people have had trouble with cooling. Any thoughts on this? I have a large 2 row aluminum radiator, and a Mazire electric pump now. No cooling issues with my current motor, even when "hot lapped"

I have also read that filled blocks will cause your oil temps to run hot. Will I need to run an oil cooler?

A lot of the info that was presented in my last post pertained to early pro stock work. Racing chassis, motor plates, etc. My chassis is basically a stock eliminator chassis. I use bolts factory motor mounts. Can anyone comment on how effective the filled block is when used in a mostly stock chassis?
It won't crack .

If the oil temp doesn't exceed 300 during the hardest running then don't use an oil cooler, dont add any foo foo frills that will make it more difficult for the pump to stay primed and feed the engine.hot oil is better than none , or a bunch of bubbly oil from lines running everywhere.

cylinder wall integrity is a concern for pure racing , you should worry more about bearing type , clearances ,and getting rid of the factory valves and rod bolts.

YOU WANTED THE BEST ?
WELL THEY DIDN'T MAKE IT !
SO HERE'S WHAT YOU GET !
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 12th, 2004, 6:14 pm

September 2nd, 2013, 7:02 am #4

Per my original post about building a Clevor. I want to make sure that I don't leave any stones unturned here. If I can Use a cleveland block and get what I need, It would be cheaper and easier for me to do so.

I need to keep this motor streetable. I want to be able to sell this car some day and streetable cars sell a lot better that race cars do.

How much can I fill the block and still circulate enough water to keep the motor cool, yet get the cyl support that I need. I understand that most heat is created in the heads. But I have also read posts on other forums that after filling blocks, people have had trouble with cooling. Any thoughts on this? I have a large 2 row aluminum radiator, and a Mazire electric pump now. No cooling issues with my current motor, even when "hot lapped"

I have also read that filled blocks will cause your oil temps to run hot. Will I need to run an oil cooler?

A lot of the info that was presented in my last post pertained to early pro stock work. Racing chassis, motor plates, etc. My chassis is basically a stock eliminator chassis. I use bolts factory motor mounts. Can anyone comment on how effective the filled block is when used in a mostly stock chassis?
It's not exactly a street car, but I do want to be able to sell it as such when the time comes. As stated in the other post. The car is a 68 falcon. Semi gutted interior, 8 point bar, caltracs, detroit locker, sfi axles, etc. 3140 lbs, 90% drag with an occasional trip to the local cruise in.

I'm beginning to see a 460 in my future.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 16th, 2004, 4:57 am

September 2nd, 2013, 8:37 am #5

Per my original post about building a Clevor. I want to make sure that I don't leave any stones unturned here. If I can Use a cleveland block and get what I need, It would be cheaper and easier for me to do so.

I need to keep this motor streetable. I want to be able to sell this car some day and streetable cars sell a lot better that race cars do.

How much can I fill the block and still circulate enough water to keep the motor cool, yet get the cyl support that I need. I understand that most heat is created in the heads. But I have also read posts on other forums that after filling blocks, people have had trouble with cooling. Any thoughts on this? I have a large 2 row aluminum radiator, and a Mazire electric pump now. No cooling issues with my current motor, even when "hot lapped"

I have also read that filled blocks will cause your oil temps to run hot. Will I need to run an oil cooler?

A lot of the info that was presented in my last post pertained to early pro stock work. Racing chassis, motor plates, etc. My chassis is basically a stock eliminator chassis. I use bolts factory motor mounts. Can anyone comment on how effective the filled block is when used in a mostly stock chassis?
IIRC my almost full fills (aprox 1.25" to 1.5" down from deck surface) never really had a problem with overheating the cooling system side of the equation. This was especially true when using an electric waterpump/electric fan setup. After a pass It would cool down almost as fast as it would without grout.

And when I used a mechanically driven waterpump/fan setup I still didn't see any problematic cooling system overheating during a pass/runtime. But I have to admit with a mech WP setup the engine/grout/cooling system did hold onto the generated heat a lot longer after shutdown (vs a "no grout" combo) because of no moving water after shutdown to help cool the grout surfaces.

Grout will almost always increase engine oil temps/thin the oil a given amount since there is no circulating water in the bottom of the block/waterjacket to help carry away some of the heat from the hot splashed oil contact & oil pan mating surfaces. The increased oil temps aren't usually a problem on a race-only deal unless you end up with some scary low oil pressure numbers at idle on the return road after a pass. Thicker oil or more oil pressure (shim the pump spring, or stiffer spring) can be used help boost the hot oil/thin oil pressure numbers after a pass.

On a grouted street combo you could also as mentioned add an oil cooler to the mix to help cool the oil/boost the hot pressure numbers. But to be honest I really don't like the idea of using grout on a "true" street car (one that will actually see extensive "real" street/highway use). This is because both cooling system types (elec driven & mech driven) can sometimes have drawbacks when used with grout on the street (even with a low height grout fill). With a mechanically driven cooling system the grout will always cook the crap out of the head gaskets, heat-soaking them for a long period of time after shutdown, especially with the extra heat build-up of street driving. And I have never liked using an electrically driven cooling system on the street (with or without grout). They are great in a race car, but IMO just don't ever seem to really "keep up" with actual changing engine RPM vs water flow demands on the street.




my youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DILLIGASDAVE/videos?view=0

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 23rd, 2003, 12:49 pm

September 2nd, 2013, 8:53 am #6

I haven't seen any issues associated with using filler on the street. Wall integrity is greatly enhanced by using some form of filler IMHO.

[/IMG]

This 393 was filled so the grout is level with the water pump outlets when levelled. Motor has gone 10.9 in a 3600 lb car and is driven on the street all the time. Runs a CSR pump and alloy radiator. Running a standard volume oil pump as well and the pressures look good.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 16th, 2004, 4:57 am

September 2nd, 2013, 8:54 am #7

It's not exactly a street car, but I do want to be able to sell it as such when the time comes. As stated in the other post. The car is a 68 falcon. Semi gutted interior, 8 point bar, caltracs, detroit locker, sfi axles, etc. 3140 lbs, 90% drag with an occasional trip to the local cruise in.

I'm beginning to see a 460 in my future.
****I'm* beginning to see a 460 in my future****


460's with decent compression numbers and/or nitrous use often get grouted too. They are also a thin wall casting, with a tall unsupported cylinder wall height & a large bore diameter.





my youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DILLIGASDAVE/videos?view=0

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 16th, 2004, 4:57 am

September 2nd, 2013, 9:00 am #8

I haven't seen any issues associated with using filler on the street. Wall integrity is greatly enhanced by using some form of filler IMHO.

[/IMG]

This 393 was filled so the grout is level with the water pump outlets when levelled. Motor has gone 10.9 in a 3600 lb car and is driven on the street all the time. Runs a CSR pump and alloy radiator. Running a standard volume oil pump as well and the pressures look good.
IMO the aluminum cylinder heads do help reduce/remove a bunch of heat from a grouted combo.




my youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DILLIGASDAVE/videos?view=0

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 25th, 2006, 3:22 pm

September 2nd, 2013, 9:21 am #9

I haven't seen any issues associated with using filler on the street. Wall integrity is greatly enhanced by using some form of filler IMHO.

[/IMG]

This 393 was filled so the grout is level with the water pump outlets when levelled. Motor has gone 10.9 in a 3600 lb car and is driven on the street all the time. Runs a CSR pump and alloy radiator. Running a standard volume oil pump as well and the pressures look good.
I would like to know the build and I have to get that alt braket, and where to get it.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 23rd, 2003, 12:49 pm

September 2nd, 2013, 10:11 am #10

Trav, the bracket is available from Bullet cylinder heads here in Australia.

Builds is pretty typical of most stroker combinations.

Scat crank, rods and probe slugs 11.5 comp runs on 98 octane which is equivalent of your 93
CHI 208 heads and manifold. Heads have had some texturing of the intake ports but remain unported.
Bullet solid roller. Cam is under 260@50 . I'm not gonna give exact specs
Isky ezx lifters
Trend pushrods
Rollmaster chain setup
Yella terra platinum rockers
750 holley
602 hp and 516 lbs of torque.
4200 converter , 3.9 gear ,10.94 quarter first time out.
Fwiw, I wouldn't use the Probes again. Seen too many of them crack . Mahle make a much nicer slug IMHO.

Sold the engine recently and about to do a 440 cube build using SCM race port heads.
Quote
Like
Share