Detractors constantly link to two specific sites, namely
´Someguyyoudontknow´, (which is offline but has been copied) and http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/PentWitnesses.xls
as a counterargument to CIT´s documented and verified revelations on the
NOC approach of the plane in its final seconds before reaching the Pentagon.

I don´t know how the link given is meant to contradict the testimony
of the NOC witnesses.
First, there are no witnesses within that vicinity who counter their claims as to which path the plane followed between the Navy Annex and the Pentagon.
Second, the vast majority of ´testimony´ linked to are mainly unconfirmed media reports. Some of which, when looked at in more detail, actually coincide and reinforce the NOC witness testimony.
Some are taken completely out of context.
Some are media embellishments and not direct quotes.
MANY had no view at all or weren´t even within a 2 mile radius.
Some are totally anonymous initialled accounts.
Some are disinfo.

More importantly, NONE are SOC witnesses.
Some are even the NOC witnesses that the link is intended to counterargue!
The following witnesses are listed on these sites.

POSSIBLE NOC/ ACTUAL NOC WITNESSES:

Levi Stephens

Stars & Stripes September 12, 2001

Levi Stephens, 23, a courier for the Armed Forces Information Service, spoke of the crash:

"I was driving away from the Pentagon in the South Pentagon lot when I hear this huge rumble, the ground started shaking … I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van and I looked back and I saw this huge explosion, black smoke everywhere."

CIT phoned and e-mailed this witness and revealed that the plane did NOT fly over his van and that he was ´misquoted´.
CIT sent him an image to depict exactly where he was and came to this conclusion:



He said:

¨Notice it's a one way street that allows you to circle South parking. I was looking for a parking spot. So as the plane flew in I had to physically turn around to watch it. I stopped there when I noticed how low the plane was. The reporter sort of misquoted me I was actually driving away from the Pentagon directionally as I wasn't facing the building."

The explosion occurred diectly behind him at @300m or more.

On being asked about the flightpath he confirmed that it flew over the Navy Annex, that he did NOT witness the lightpoles being ´struck´ and that he had ´put 2 and 2 together´ after watching the news.
He was adamant that the plane flew on the ¨Arlington Cemetery´ side of the Citgo Station - North Side.

NOC = No impact.


William Middleton Snr.

upper end of ANC buildings

Original CMH interview

William Middleton: As I made a turn to come back I heard this whistling noise as if it was coming behind me. So when I turned to look, I seen this big large airplane beside me.

CMH officer: Where were you at?

Middleton: Uh Patton Drive.

...And he glazed over like our parking lot here and made a turn toward the Pentagon….

Concurring with all the other ANC witnesses regarding how close the plane was to the parking lot.


William Lagasse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKov_UZDQE

In an e-mail to CIT:

¨Obviously what I saw happened, therefore the conclusions made by people who didnt see it can be flawed...I accept the fact that there can be miscalculations on my part, but NOT whether or not the plane was on the North or South side of the gas station."

Sean Boger

http://thepentacon.com/Topic11.htm

The CIT interview with Sean Boger:

¨It would be on my right or the gas station´s left. If I´m looking out my window
Because I´m looking toward the gas station...it would be on my right hand side.¨

¨As he was coming towards me it just seemed like he was tilting the aircraft to his right ¨

He said that he does not believe it was level or that low. He claims it was on a descent and that it was between the 2nd and 3rd floor (which is equal to his height in the heliport tower) rather than beneath his point of view on the first floor as depicted in the ASCE report and required by the physical damage.





Penny Elgas

Stuck in late morning rush hour traffic -- almost in front of the Pentagon.

¨AND IT WAS LIKE RIGHT THERE OVER THE GAS STATION.( to the side of and not much above the CITGO gas station-original quote)¨

Terry Morin

http://www.coping.org/911/survivor/pentagon.htm

http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=269

Deb Analauf

Watching from floor 14 window of her hotel room in the Sheraton Hotel

"Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. Then it shot straight across from where we are..¨

This shot is from the roof of the Sheraton.



Analauf is a Navy Annex witness. What needs to be confirmed
is which point or at what angle the plane traversed this building.
All ANC witnesses (among many more) confirm that the plane flew over this point.

Noel Sepulveda

´Sepulveda walked back to his motorcycle and saw a commercial airliner coming from the direction of Henderson Hall, adjacent to the Pentagon and where the Marine Corps has its headquarters....... HE SAW THE PLANE FLY ABOVE A NEARBY HOTEL..´

Henderso Hall

William Middleton was south of this Marine Corps building and claimed that it flew from this same direction. Over the Annex.

Mike Dobbs

Standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window

¨I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle. It looked to me to be on a zero-to-zero course. It seemed to be almost coming in in slow motion. I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running."

Mike Walter





Nuff said..

Christine Peterson

¨I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, "holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car" (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.¨

Like Frank Probst, this witness puts herself ´in front of the helipad
at the Pentagon´.

Her story corraborates the entrance of the plane onto Route 27 at the same point other witnesses in the same vicinity do, at the point where Robert Turcios claims to have seen the plane ´lift´.
This is covered here.

This is her described position on the road.

Lightpole 1 is almost 180º behind her as is the straight official path behind it. The first roadsign is the one Turcios describes.
The one barely visible behind this one, looking through the car´s blindspot, is where lightpole 1 is.

She said she ´looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane´. Does this sound like she stretched her head right round behind her?
Tell me, can you even SEE the official path BEHIND lightpole 1?
Then she says ´The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.´
How can this be true when her view of the plane as it allegedly crashed via the official path would have looked like this?



Probst Frank

http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=841

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11.  Walking north beside Route 27, the 6'2" Vietnam Veteran looked up, directly into the right engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine.
    "Had I not hit the deck, the plane would have taken off my head."
http://www.troa.org/Magazine/January2002/feature3.asp

As he approached the heliport he noticed a plane flying low over the Annex and heading right for him. According to the Arlington County after-action report (Arlington County, 2002), this occurred at 9:38 a.m. The aircraft pulled up, seemingly aiming for the first floor of the building, and leveled off. Probst hit the ground and observed the right wing tip pass through the portable 750 kW generator that provides backup power to Wedge 1.The right engine took out the chainlink fence and posts surrounding the generator. The left engine struck an external steam vault before the fuselage entered the
building. As the fireball from the crash moved toward him, Probst
ran toward the South Parking Lot and recalls falling down twice.
Fine pieces of wing debris floated down about him.
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf

First of all, the ASCE report:

¨As he approached the heliport he noticed a plane flying low over the Annex and heading right for him.¨

Another Navy Annex witness.
Frank Probst places himself BEYOND the official path´s entry onto the lawn. This is further cemented by his quote on the plane nearly striking him:

¨looked up, directly into the RIGHT engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its RIGHT engine.¨

This narrows the ASCE´s report on his position to a specific point.



Yet the previous report claimed that he was ¨Walking north beside Route 27¨ on the lawn path that runs parallel to the road in front of the Pentagon and the ASCE report claims he was ´approaching the heliport´.

These two statements don´t add up. He cannot be in the official path AND walking North, close to the heliport. He SHOULD be 100-150m further on to hold these words true.

The ASCE has him as the main witness upholding the path (which has been shown NOT to be true) and of the official damage.If you read the above report again you will see that he is NOT directly quoted AFTER they claim that he observed the wing tip strike the generator trailer. The rest has been inserted to make it APPEAR that he witnessed this.
According to the ever-revised official reports on the damage analysis
the ENGINE is what was supposed to have done this damage. NOT the wing tip.

Frank Probst claimed that the right engine of the plane just missed him and he had to dive out of its way (which puts the plane another ´planeslength´ closer to the heliport)

His description of the fine debris falling around him is interesting as the total debris field is to the NORTH of the alleged impact point. Towards the heliport.







A Navy Annex witness whose original testimony places the plane´s entrance onto Route 27 WELL AWAY from the lightpoles.

Steve Riskus

Riskus POV



Riskus´ own diagram of where the plane crossed in front of him:



This description accompanied the above photo:

" I was close enough (about 100 ft or so) that I could see the "American Airlines" logo on the tail as it headed towards the building... The plane looked like it was coming in about where you have the "MAX APPROACH" on that picture... I was at about where the "E" in "ANGLE OF CAMERA" is written when the plane hit... It was not completely level, but it was not going straight down, kind of like it was landing with no gear down...¨

Note: He claims the plane entered around the signpost Turcios talked of in his CIT interview:



View from his POV of the Turcios roadsign zoomed in:

Google streetview

He claims he was 100ft from the plane as it entered Route 27 which places it NOC. He says it looked like ¨it was landing with no gear down..¨. At this point the plane HAD TO BE on the low level approach
at the alleged 540+mph as shown in the 5 frames and touted by the ASCE report and damage.
How could he NOT notice the ´spearing´ of Lloyd England´s cab as it happened OR as he made his way up towards the point of the explosion as we can see in his progression of photos?
Because Lloyd was at least 200 metres further up the road beside the first lightpoles.

Possible (and probable) NOC witness.

Vin Naranyan

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/0...t-person.htm%20

¨At 9:35 a.m., I pulled alongside the Pentagon. With traffic at a standstill, my eyes wandered around the road, looking for the cause of the traffic jam. Then I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed straight at the Pentagon.¨

http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20020909002/tscript.htm

¨ Actually, that huge fireball exploded right toward me. I was on the road right next to where the American Airlines jet hit Pentagon wall. That wall is about 50 yards from the road. I was listening to the WTC coverage as well when I looked up to the left and saw a plane flying at my car. At first, I thought it was heading toward National just to get out of the air. But the closer it got, the more it looked like it was going to hit my car. The tail of the jet clipped an overhanging exit sign above me on it's way down. Then it slammed into the Pentagon wall.¨

Given his description, he places himself here.

´alongside the Pentagon´,´jet flying right at me´,¨over my head¨,
¨The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me¨


His next interview reinforces his positioning:

´that huge fireball exploded right toward me. I was on the road right next to where the American Airlines jet hit Pentagon wall. That wall is about 50 yards from the road.¨


This is the view from the roadsign beside which the first 2 lightpoles which were allegedly struck are.

It is taken from the Southbound lanes. he was allegedly two lanes over at a more acute angle to the ´impact zone´.
Does ANY of the above testimony correspond with this POV?
Is this ´50 yards (150 feet)´ from the explosion? Could the fireball go ´right toward´ him?

How could he NOT see the lightpoles being struck if he was here?
How could he see this overhead sign beside the poles being struck by the TAIL of the plane? How could he NOT see Lloyd England´s cab being speared by a lightpole??



IF Naranyan is continued to be labelled an ´impact witness´, his testimony describes the plane as coming from the NOC direction.
His testimony makes the damage according to the official path IMPOSSIBLE. AND the path he described is corraborated from various angles. Most notably, Robert Turcios and Sean Boger. Two concrete NOC witnesses who even describe the aforementioned signpost in their testimonies.

Donald Bouchoux

At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car."

I have given Bouchoux the benefit of the doubt and placed him at the point shown but he may very well have been further back.
Needs confirmation but the ´200m´ distance ahead of him leans more towards NOC.

Smiley, Elizabeth

intelligence operations specialist with Civil Aviation

walking home from work at the FAA building, decided to walk the one mile home from her metro stop at the Pentagon

As Elizabeth Smiley was walking home from her metro stop at the Pentagon, she..

“…saw the plane not more than 200 feet over my head.”

That´s it. One line. She saw the plane ´200ft over´ her head.

Another media report containing the same vague direct quote but embellished by the reporter:

¨Elizabeth Smiley, 29, was on her way home from work.

"I saw the plane not more than 200 feet over my head," Smiley said.

The matter hits close to home for Smiley. She works in terrorist intelligence for the Federal Aviation Administration.

She was on her way home from the FAA building when the attacks occurred. She decided to walk the one mile home from her metro stop at the Pentagon instead of taking the bus. That's when the plane flew overhead and struck the building.¨

This woman was on her way home given what had happened in Manhattan just that morning? SHE WORKS IN TERRORIST INTELLIGENCE FOR THE FAA.
´But hey hon, take the morning off...´

There is a footpath which crosses Route 27 that passes under the underpass on top of which were lightpoles 1 and 2.

It leads in front of the Citgo Gas Station running past the ANC Parking Lot. Up to the Navy Annex. Northside.

The question is, at which point on this footpath did she see the plane at 200ft agl?
The plane was allegedly 30+ ft agl when it reached lightpole 1.
If she was on the path at this point emerging from underneath the underpass she would have stated the that altitude was much lower (more descriptive and more dramatic).

As the path approaches the North path, which is almost immediately on crossing the more Northern looproad, she still does not mention the lightpoles or the ´impact´.
Her testimony needs further investigation to ascertain how far she had travelled this path to the NOC (to have the plane 200ft ´above her head, she HAD to be closer to the ANC buildings)
OR was she further up Columbia Pike before the plane traversed the Navy Annex. In which case she had no view at all of the Pentagon.

Either way it has to be accepted that she either witnessed nothing of the lightpoles/the explosion itself OR she places herself towards the ANC workers´ POV or AT LEAST in front of Citgo.


Witnesses on thiese lists who describe a ´right-bank´:

William Middleton Snr and Sean Boger who are on this list describe
a right-bank.
As do another group on this list. Corresponding with the ANC workers
who describe this manouevre.





Boger:

¨As he was coming towards me it just seemed like he was tilting the aircraft to his right...almost like an angle¨

Donald Carter:

¨coasted over the Navy Annex into a bank before gunning its engines..¨

William Middleton CMH interview 2001:



George Aman

http://www.thepentacon.com/neit419

¨When I seen he was kind of turning and gliding when he came across here, across the parking lot..¨

Who else describes this bank on this list?

Gary Bauer

¨And it VEERED TO THE RIGHT into the Pentagon.¨

Mike Walter (again)



Robert A. Leonard

"The aircraft, so close to the ground, was banked skillfully to the right..¨

James Ryan

http://www.america.gov/st/pubs-english/200...l#ixzz0ZFlG7ia9

¨At that point he tilted his wings, this way [right wing down] and then this way. [left wing down] .... and then straightened out suddenly..¨

Bruce Elliott Colonel

"It was banking and garnering speed. I FELT it was headed for the Pentagon."

Don Scott

driving eastward past the Pentagon on his way to Walter Reed Army Medical Center; just passed the Pentagon and was near the Macy's store in Crystal City

"I noticed a plane making a sharp turn from north of the Pentagon. I had to look back at the road and then back to the plane as it sort of leveled off.¨

Sepulveda Noel

¨HE BELIEVES THAT IF THE AIRLINER HAD NOT HIT THE LIGHT POLES, IT WOULD HAVE SLAMMED INTO THE PENTAGON'S 9TH AND 10TH CORRIDOR A-RING, and the loss of life would have been greater.¨

Here we see exactly which area of the Pentagon he believes the plane was en route for until it hit ´lightpoles´. But when we see this route, the plane is nowhere near the abovementioned poles.



He is definitely describing a right hand banking manouevre until the plane was ´diverted´ by what he believed to have been an object on the motorway.
He is also describing this manouevre as being at a much higher altitude than the streetlights if he believed that the plane was going to crash into the Centre court of the building.

There can be no other translation of this statement.


Other witnesses have publically retracted aspects of their testimony either through secondary interviews by CIT, through disinfo/manipulation and/or that person´s indignation at the media:

Stephen McGraw:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...059007792&hl=en

McGraw´s original testimony on witnessing lightpoles being struck and the cab story were shown for what they were in a CIT interview with him. A falsehood/manipulation on words.

Penny Elgas

HILL: ¨And you said you saw it... you saw it hit one of the light poles?¨

ELGAS: ¨ No, I didn't see it hit.  I heard on the news that it hit a light pole

On how she came across the Smithsonian debris

HILL: ¨And that kinda... the... what I was reading  it fell into your car?¨

ELGAS: ¨Well,  that's what THEY said, but that's not what happened.¨

HILL: ¨You just picked it up, or?¨

ELGAS: ¨ I Picked it up¨. 

Campos, Omar

His only testimony is in this live video clip

Campos interview.

The guy who translated for the interviewer changed the context and content of what he said and saw.

“sabes que yo estaba trabjando en el edificio que tenemos aqui al costado"

I was working in the building that we have over here to the side.

When asked what he saw Campos said the plane came in over him low, so low it moved the trees..

“yo lo via que me pasaba aqui por encima, tu sabes que venia muy bajo y movia hasta los arboles, hasta segun venia tan de bajo”.

He repeats the fact that it was low twice. The translator, on the other hand, changed that to say it came in “very fast down it moved then go straight to the building”. He didn’t even mention it was low, which is what Campos emphasized. Campos didn’t say anything about the speed of the plane, and DID NOT say it “moved straight to the building”. The translator made that up.

Also related to the color of the plane, Gordon Peterson (the interviewer) mentioned American Airlines (nothing leading there) and Rajish passed that on in his question to Omar. Campos ignored them and responded that it was like one of the planes here from United ("algo asi como los de la United"), which was translated as "a United States Plane" by the translator. Omar was clearly talking about United Airlines, not "United States Plane". Omar wasn’t mixing English and Spanish like the “translator”. Had he meant a “United States Plane” he would have used “de los estados unidos” or “estado unidinese”. In effect Omar was confirming Sgt Brooke’s perception of the plane as being one from United Airlines.

So where in this picture is a building ´to the side of the Pentagon´ and trees? It certainly ISN¨T on the south path.



So he isn´t an impact witness or an ´AA´ witness according to this testimony.

But hey, the totally off translation suited so...


Cissell James R.

´Saw wheel go past car. Saw faces in plane.´

This witness was quoted as saying this on the page I was linked to..after YEARS of his public denial of saying any such thing.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2...606flight77.htm

"The Cincinnati Post article, which you refer, angered me greatly after reading it. It is almost completely fiction based loosely on an interview I did with a Cincinnati Post reporter Kimball Perry who called me in response to an on air phone report that I did for Channel 12 in Cincinnati.
The reporter took extreme creative license not only with the title but also with the story as a whole. Why he felt the need to sensationalize anything that happened on September 11 is beyond me. My words to the reporter were, "I was about four cars back from where the plane crossed over the highway. That it happened so quickly I DIDN'T EVEN SEE WHAT AIRLINE IT WAS FROM. However, I was so close to the plane when it went past that had it been sitting on a runway, I could have seen the faces of passengers peering out."

He goes on to say in the same interview clarifying what he saw:

"Looking at the trajectories in the diagrams they have online seems off to me. I remember the plane coming in more directly at the side of the building than at an angle," said Cissell

Totally contradicting SOC.

Andrea Kaiser

Arlington County Fire Department Fire Truck 101

"As I was driving down 95 heading towards the Pentagon, one of my members, teammates, said, 'What is that plane doing?' And by the time I looked up, the plane was moving so fast all I saw was an explosion."

Here is what Captain Steve McCoy in the same firetruck (101) had said:

¨When Captain Steve McCoy of ENGINE 101 REPORTED A PLANE GOING DOWN IN THE VICINITY OF THE 14TH STREET BRIDGE, all the response units in the county immediately began gearing up¨
http://www.fireengineering.com/display_art...ARTMENT-RESPONS

Fire engine 101 has been repeatedly quoted as having seen an ´impact´ or disguising the words to make it appear so.
Hope this finally clears this up.

Kenneth McClellan

Pentagon spokesman (not even a witness)

" The C-130 pilot "followed the aircraft and reported it was heading into the Pentagon," he said. "He saw it crash into the building. He saw the fireball." ...

This is false according to Lt. Col Steve O´Brien:

"I distinctly remember having a difficult time keeping the AA flight in sight after we turned back to the east to follow it per a request from Wash. Departure Control.  When I saw the initial explosion I was not able to see exactly where or what it had impacted, but remember trying to approximate a position to give to ATC.  It was then that I was able to see the sun reflecting off the Potomac and the runway at Wash. Nat'l and thought to myself that the AA flight must have had some sort of IFE and was trying to make it back to National Airport."

Darb Ryan
Vice Admiral

in his office at the Navy Annex

¨ Having learned that New York had been attacked, he was on the telephone recommending the evacuation of the Pentagon "when out of the corner of my eye I saw the airplane" a split second before it struck.¨

´a split second before it struck´ is added in by the reporter for ´Aviation Week´ and are not his actual words.
So all we have is him stating that he saw the plane.

Stephens Levi

Stars & Stripes September 12, 2001

Levi Stephens, 23, a courier for the Armed Forces Information Service, spoke of the crash:

...It flew over the van and I looked back and I saw this huge explosion, black smoke everywhere."

CIT phoned and e-mailed this witness and revealed that the plane did NOT fly over his van and that he was ´misquoted´.

Ticknor Henry (minister)

Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. "There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud," he said.
http://www.uua.org/world/2002/01/feature3a.html

but later he told the real version:

"Recently I went on-line and did a search on my name. Not too many surprises, lots of sermons, a couple of newspaper items about my days with the Fairfax County Public Schools, a few references to my name in the Winchester Star. But the most interesting was a 9-11 conspiracy theory site that quoted me as an eyewitness to the attack on the Pentagon. Comments, attributed to me, but printed without my knowledge or permission were used to support the notion that it may not have been a plane that struck the Pentagon, but rather a missile. The web page says, "This is the only witness statement that seems to have caught the white smoke which would agree with a missile being fired. Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. "There was a puff of white smoke and then a billowing black cloud."

Where did that come from? No idea, unless it was lifted from a UU World Magazine article for which I was interviewed at some length as an eyewitness. You see on the morning of September 11, I was driving down Rt. 50 on my way to work at the Arlington UU Church when I saw a plane dive below the tree line and an immediate explosion. I did tell the World Magazine about the smoke; I never said the plane came in fast and low over my car, as I was five miles from the point of impact. Where is my right to privacy?"

http://www.uushenandoah.org/sermons/050501.htm

FIVE miles away. Tells of media LYING about what he said.
Not a witness. He saw ´smoke´ yet his quote was misconstrued to
be the ´white plume´ seen in the ´5 frames´. Unreal that this guy´s name still appears on these pathetic links to counterargue what NOC witnesses saw.

Alan Wallace

http://web.telia.com/~u43109230/flight77/texts/Wallace.txt

“SO MANY PEOPLE THINK MARK AND I WATCHED THE PLANE HIT THE BUILDING ...WE DID NOT. WE ONLY SAW IT APPROACH FOR AN INSTANT..¨

Did not see ´impact´

Dave Winslow

"I saw the tail of a large airliner ... It plowed right into the Pentagon."

Okay, another dumbass, debunked testimony in the sense that his words have been taken WAY out of context, knowingly and repeatedly served up as the truth and STILL linked to.

¨I just saw the tail go whoosh right past me. In a split second, you heard this boom. A combination of a crack and a thud. It rattled my windows. I thought they were going to blow out. Then came an enormous fireball."
http://www.ap.org/BreakingNews/quote.html

Turns into this:

AP reporter Dave Winslow also saw the crash. He said, "I saw the tail of a large airliner ... It ploughed right into the Pentagon."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/sep/1...eronmensfashion

Which turns into this:

AP reporter Dave Winslow says he saw the tail of a large airliner plow right into the Pentagon.

Disinfo.

Then there is witness embellishment/deduction translated into fact:

Chadwick Brooks

NOC witness along with Lagasse. Exactly corraborated eachothers flightpath and placement of the plane on North of Citgo.
During his CIT interview he ADMITTED that he did NOT see the lightpoles being struck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKov_UZDQE

There ARE other ´witnesses´ that continue to be used in other ´impact witness´ lists. Lee Evey, who wasn´t even there, Tom Hovis who was EIGHT MILES away in his office and Mickey Bell who had been quoted as describing the entire Official Path, lightpoles and all. It was eventually settled upon that he had no idea what happened.


Then we have witnesses who even admit they did not see any ´impact´ , were not in a position to view one or who just saw/heard a ´plane´/explosion:

Some of which are incredibly ambiguous, media one-liners.

Mind explaining how these statements contribute either way to defining the final seconds of the plane´s appearance in this particular Arlington basin of land?

Ralph Banton

"It sounded like it was jetting instead of slowing down."

That´s it..

Stuart Artman

"I saw the plane THAT hit the Pentagon. It went behind some trees."

Didn´t and couldn´t see.

David Battle

"And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."

A constant theme in these links. Even the mention of the word ´impact´ makes these people witnesses. Coincidentally the rest of his quote is as follows

Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said.

This places him at one of the South Parking entrances which has no view of the western facade. He describes the plane´s approach as ´coming down head first´ but totally omits the plane´s arrival on Route 27 and the crossing of the lawn.
He obviously FELT the explosion, but lost sight of the plane in its final seconds.

Richard Benedetto

¨ The plane went down and for a split second it was out of my line of vision because there was a bridge there and a hill. ... I DID´NT ACTUALLY SEE THE IMPACT... ¨

Nuff said..

Mark Bright

"I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low ¨

Obviously didn´t actually SEE it. Deduction.

Lisa Burgess

in the Pentagon courtyard

"I heard two loud booms - one large, one small."

No view. HEARD the explosion.

Dennis Clem

Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency

"There was a commercial airliner that said American Airliners over the side of it flying at just above treetop height at full speed headed for the Pentagon."

That´s it. His only description. No mention of any ´impact´ or of its path.

Scott P. Cook

"We didn’t know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, OR WHERE IT HAD HIT.¨

His testimony contradicts what exactly?

Steve DeChiaro

"But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing."

This guy is meant to contradict NOC too? seems more like an incredulous account of a plane actually striking the building.

Kim Dent

looking out of the window of an office in the Navy Annex

"We saw the shadow of a plane. We heard the engine. We all said, 'That plane is flying kind of close.' "

Saw ´the shadow of a plane´..

Michael DiPaula

"It sounded like a missile," DiPaula recalls. "There were three loud thump, thump, thumps. You could hear the metal cracking and crinkling, and the explosion."

DiPaula was INSIDE a trailer and HEARD the explosion. In another media report
he is described as witnessing the plane approach. This is a lie.

Mike Dobbs

¨I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running."

and

¨... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."

Bob Dubill

“This plane was going to slam into the Pentagon. I steeled myself for the explosion.”

That is all he says. No description. He did not witness any ´impact´
according to this testimony.

Steve Eiden

¨he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit.¨

This is a reporter´s account telling us that Steve Eiden did not see any ´impact´.

Bruce Elliott Colonel

"It was banking and garnering speed. I FELT it was headed for the Pentagon."

Fred Gaskins

"(The plane) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target,"

Not an impact witness.

Mike Gerson

¨I didn't see the actual impact¨

Afework Hagos

¨ I know this plane is going to crash.¨

Cheryl Hammond

"We saw the big American Airlines plane and started running."

Eugenio Hernandez

¨"I was in my Jeep Cherokee, driving on Route 395 toward DC and listening to NPR. I saw the plane coming down."

Joe Hurst

Oval Room restaurant at Lafayette Square

"I saw it go overhead, the plane."

Will Jarvis

“There was just nothing left. It was incinerated. We couldn’t see a tail or a wing or anything,” he says. “Just a big black hole in the building with smoke pouring out of it.”

Another ´witness´ after the fact who described anything but a planecrash.


***


Aydan Kizildrgli

The reporter claims that he saw the plane ´strike´ the building.
His position is unconfirmed.

"There was a big boom," he said. "Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled ‘Did you see that?' Nobody could believe it."

Unconfirmed report on the morning of 9/11 in USAToday.
Describes a ´big boom´. That´s it.

Mary Lyman

¨Then the plane disappeared, smoke started coming up, and traffic came to a complete stop," Lyman said.¨

Munsey Christopher

¨it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon.¨

O'Keefe John

"There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black thick smoke...¨

Linda Plaisted

in office at home in Arlington less than one mile from the Pentagon

Interviewed a year later (2002)

¨I started to run toward my front door but the plane was going so fast at this point that it only took 4 or 5 seconds before I heard a tremendously loud crash¨

Linda Plaisted lives @ two kilometers BEHIND the Navy Annex.
She HEARD and felt an explosion. That´s it.

Lon Rains

¨ In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing I saw was the fireball. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane¨

This guy had no idea what had happened. He didn´t even see the plane and thought it was a ´missile´.

Alfred S. Regnery
right wing publishing mogul Alfred Regnery from Regnery publishers

¨As I watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers I knew it was about to crash.¨

Could not and admitted that he did not see ´impact´.

Joseph Royster
´driving´

"I was on the street driving, and then the plane went over the top of my car, just over the treetops ... It was a big aircraft just on its course."

Vague media one-liner.
He doesn´t state where he was. Just that he was ´driving´.
He makes no description whatsoever of what the plane actually did after it flew over the ´treetops´ apart from the ambiguous line ´a big aircraft just on its course´??
Just who or what is this alleged witness meant to contradict?
Did NOT witness ´impact´.


James Ryan

¨Interviewer: And you saw it hit the Pentagon?
No, at that point it went down because I was approaching a hill. And at that point it went straight down over the hill¨

Non ´impact´ witness. Admitted.

Don Scott

¨I looked back and saw flames shooting up and smoke starting to climb into the sky."

Smiley, Elizabeth

"I saw the plane not more than 200 feet over my head," Smiley said.

That´s it.

Dewey Snavely
Quaker Lane in Arlington

¨Then we heard an explosion and the truck rocked back and forth."

HEARD explosion.

Kate Snow
CNN congressional correspondent

"I did see, myself a plane, about half hour ago, circling over the Capitol, now whether that may have been..."

End of.

Anybody counting the witnesses who contradict NOC?

John Thurman
Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff

´inside the Pentagon´

"To me the explosion happened in two portions. It didn't sound like much. There was a large whoosh and then a kind of a karumph sound."

He was INSIDE the Pentagon. NOT an ´impact´ witness.

Thomas J. Trapasso
1km behind Navy Annex

"It disappeared over the trees, and I heard a boom. I knew something awful had happened--that an airplane had crashed somewhere in Washington, D.C."

That´s it. He saw the plane.

Ian Wyatt

"It was going so fast and it was so low."

This contradicts NOC witnesses? No.

Madelyn Zakhem
on a bench outside the VDOT Smart Traffic Center

"It was huge! It was silver. It was low -- unbelievable! I could see the cockpit. I fell to the ground.... I was crying and scared."

There were witnesses quoted who had no possible view:

Susan Carroll

platform high above Reagan waiting for a Metro

She could not physically see an ´impact´.Impossible.





Allen Cleveland
on a Metro train just pulling into the National Airport Station

"I was just pulling in on the subway station just at National Airport. I just happened to look over - actually my back was facing in the direction of the Pentagon - I looked to the right of the train as we were coming into the station, and noticed a jet flying in real low, about a mid-sized passenger jet flying in. I know it was silver, that's the only thing I know."

Tell me how he saw anything.






Kat Gaines

Her commute to the airport took her south on Route 110, in front of the parking lots of the Pentagon. As she approached the parking lots, she saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles. She then heard the plane power up and plunge into the Pentagon.

A second hand journalist account.
She allegedly saw ´telephone poles´ being struck from Route 110.

Here is the view from the overpass that runs over Route 110 from a raised vantage point.

She saw ´telephone poles´ being struck from here???
There is no view of the west face of the Pentagon. The journalist then goes on to say that she HEARD the plane ´power up´.
She did not and could not witness any ´impact´.
Second hand testimony, especially from a the media which has constantly been shown to be unreliable is as bad as being anonymous. Unacceptable to any honest debate on this subject.

Fred Hey
driving on Route 50

"I can't believe it! This plane is going down into the Pentagon!"

Route 50 is miles away from the Pentagon running behind the Navy Annex.

No view.

Michael James (and wife Isabella James)
´In a car´

"The plane came over the top of us and brushed the trees. Then it looked like it hit the helicopter pad and skipped up and went right into the first and second floors."

He nor his wife were in a position to see the Pentagon from their stated position.

Isabella James was asked by a reporter that morning if she saw what type of plane it was:

"we were driving down Columbia Pike and it just shrew right over us... I didn't see any markings...the trees...the treeline (blocked our view).

There is only one way to reach the Pentagon travelling down Columbia Pike given their description.



They had no view.

D.S. Khavkin

¨First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles, then headed directly for the Pentagon and crashed on the lawn near the west side the Pentagon. A huge fireball exploded with thick black smoke."

¨We live in Arlington, VA just outside of Washington, DC in a high-rise building on the eight floor. Our balcony faces the city, with a panoramic view of the Pentagon, National Airport, and the entire downtown area of Washington, DC.¨

This is the only Khavkin that lives on the top floor of an 8 story building in Arlington within range of the Pentagon:

http://www.google.com/search?q=(703)+521-3...oi=rwp&ct=title



From the ROOF of this apartment to the immediate right of the Sheraton the top floor the top right hand corner of the Pentagon can be seen.



There is NO view of the lightpoles OR the ´impact zone´ and DEFINITELY no view of the lawn.
These people were allegedly interviewed 2 days after the attack when
details were widely known.
Whatever the reason, there is no view of anything mentioned in the account.

Ann Krug
Hoffman-Boston Elementary School

Ann Krug's kindergarten class saw the plane crash outside the classroom's window. "I actually pointed it out and said: 'Look at this plane; look at how low it's flying,' " Krug recalled. "And then we all saw it come down."

Here is the school:

Hoffman-Boston Elementary School

It is a two story building:

Streetview shot.

Here is the view from the I-395 in the direction of the Pentagon/Navy Annex, of the school (the POV is VERY limited):

Streetview image.

This is the view looking towrds the Navy Annex from this limited view:

POV

Remember that the streetview cam is one metre above the car.

There is NO view of the Pentagon.

Robert A. Leonard
´driving northbound in the HOV lanes on I-395´

"His car passed the crest of the hill, at the point where Washington comes fully into view and the Pentagon is on the left"

Alleged POV.

The top floor of the Pentagon can be seen. Remember to subtract one metre off height to have true perspective.
Remember also that he is on the HOV lanes.
We do not know which of the three lanes he was driving on.

"I looked in the rearview mirror to check the traffic and saw only a plane, flying very low. I followed it in my left outside mirror. I braked, looked out my left window and saw a large commercial aircraft aiming for the Pentagon." "The aircraft, so close to the ground, was banked skillfully to the right, leveled off perpendicular to the Pentagon's southwest side, then went full throttle directly toward the building. The plane vanished, absorbed by the building, and there was a slight pause. Then a huge fireball rose into the sky."

He states that the plane ´banked skillfully to the right´, as Gary Bauer described from the same motorway.
When the plane reached Route 27 it would have been completely out of his view for the final seconds.

That can be the only explanation for his statement ´The plane vanished, absorbed by the building´. He could not physically see the first floors of the building. There could not have been ´a slight pause. Then a huge fireball´

The plane went out of his view, then he saw the fireball.

Elaine McCusker
´about to cross the 14th Street bridge heading into D.C.´

¨I don’t know what made me look up, but I did and I saw a very low-flying American Airlines plane that seemed to be accelerating. My first thought was just ‘No, no, no, no,’ because it was obvious the plane was not heading to nearby Reagan National Airport. It was going to crash."

Possible POV from here to here.

She could not see the west face of the Pentagon. Nor even the South.
She would barely have seen the plane as it went over the Annex.
She would have had to look through the passenger window AND as she was driving AWAY from the scene.

Milburn Kirk

“I was right underneath the plane, said Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co., who was on the Arlington National Cemetery exit of Interstate 395.”
(...)
“I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles.”

Streetview of above picture.

VDOT Tower and Annex on the same route.

This was where the plane is OFFICIALLY closest to the I-395. So how was he ´right underneath´ it in this lane??

Even FURTHER down this lane we see the SOUTH face of the Pentagon and the West face corner starting to come into view:

Streetview 1

West/South corner further down this lane:

Streetview 2

Remembering that 1 metre AT LEAST must be deducted from the height of this view, please tell me where the lightpoles are..This is a ZOOMED in shot btw.

Last possible shot of the very corner of the West face:

Streetview 3

Just how high was this ´debris´ that has been translated to be ´lightpoles´ flung in the air?? Weren´t the poles found within a metre or two of their original position?

Here is a view from the perspective of where lightpole 1 and 2 are looking towards the I-395. Remember that the first 2 lanes closest are heading AWAY from the Pentagon.

POV from lightpoles 1 and 2 towards HOV lanes Northbound.

Mr.Kilburn was in the NEXT lane further in. Absolutely no view of the lightpoles OR the ´impact point´. NONE.

He could not have physically seen EITHER. The plane at no point crossed the I-395, even according to the official data.

CIT attempted to contact Mr. Kilburn but he has since passed away.

Munsey Christopher

¨A silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon, just hundreds of yards away. It was a nightmare coming to life. The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments exploded in a ground-shaking "whoomp" as it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon. A huge flash of orange flame and black smoke poured into the sky. Smoke seemed to change from black to white, forming a billowing column in the sky.¨
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evide...esses/bart.html

Another Navy Annex witness.
Munsey was on the I-395 Southbound lanes. He says that it ´hurtled by´ placing him beyond the Pentagon building. So he had to look back over his right shoulder, through the car´s natural blindspots behind the passenger seat.



He described ´a ground-shaking whomp as it APPEARED to hit...´.
The plane flew by him as he was driving his car in the opposite direction. His description is of the explosion BEHIND him ´within moments´ of the plane going by.
If there were a few ´moments´ between the plane flying by him and the explosion he HAD to be beyond the roadways (Route 27) where the plane crossed before entering the lawn area of the Pentagon.

View from Southbound lane of Route 27.

MINIMUM, if we take ´moments´ to be literally taken.
Remember to take a meter´s height off the streetview cam.
The alleged final leg of the plane and the ´impact area´ are blocked by trees.
Follow this road from this point as far as you can still see the Navy Annex ahead. The view gets even more obscured as you go on.
He deducted an ´impact´.
He did NOT witness an ´impact´ according to this testimony.

He even admits this.

O'Keefe John

Original quote:

"There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black thick smoke. "The eeriest thing about it, was that it was like you were watching a movie. There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went 'pfff'. It wasn't what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me.¨

Which later became:

"Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, "That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"

He is also listed as a ´LIGHTPOLE WITNESS´ in the WTC7liespentwitnesses link..!
He describes seeing a portion of the fireball ´through the highway overpass´.

Let´s just cut the crap here. He saw an ´impact´ from here?

Alleged O´Keefe POV

I have placed his POV in the best possible position given his description although he may very well have been much further back.

He says that he saw the plane ´swooping in´.
Secondly he specifically says that he saw the ´burst of orange flame THROUGH THE HIGHWAY OVERPASS´. So he is narrowing his POV down to BEFORE he reaches it at the point shown above, although he would have had to have been in the lane to the left because the lane we can see leads to South Parking. His view of ANYTHING in regards to the ´impact point´ and lawn are further obscured by trees and roadsigns.
Not to mention the traffic snarl ahead of him.
I know it´s getting tired now, but always remember to subtract one metre from
the height of the POV in all streetview pics.

He is NOT an ´impact witness´ from this position.

Meseidy Rodriguez
On a metro trian just pulling into the National Airport Station

¨I saw the plane but I saw it as it was about to hit. I didn't see it coming in, because he just caught my attention. He yelled, and I looked up and ... I just saw very little of it. All I could tell it was a mid-sized plane, then it was gone, then there was just all this smoke... It went straight for the Pentagon.¨

Here is the view from the metro station:





Physically impossible to see Pentagon or the approach of the plane.
Could not and did not see ´impact´.

Smith, Dennis

¨Dennis Smith, a building inspector and former Marine, was smoking a cigarette in the center courtyard when he heard the roar of engines and looked up in time to see the tail of a plane seconds before it exploded into the building.¨
http://www.govexec.com/features/1001/1001spec1.htm

First of all, we have to see the centre courtyard from the inside to
have an idea of his perspective.
In the following video at 00:53 , 01:24, 02:05 and 03:01 in the following video gives us an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djqhibAiqb0

The walls are over 70 feet tall.
There are trees all over this court as we can see from this aerial shot taken less than a week before the event:



...further obstructing any possible view.

He said that he caught the sight of the plane´s tail seconds before it ´exploded into the building´.

The only POSSIBLE chance he may have had to see it was when it was flying over the Navy Annex.
But even this would have been quite an achievement as we can see from the view of the Pentagon from the Sheraton Hotel at roughly the same height that many witnesses claim it flew over:



Even given the extra height of the tail it would still be impossible.

From the edge of the Navy Annex we can see the view of the centre court is non-existent.



Even if another 100ft were added to altitude the top floor or two MAY come into view.
In fact the altitude necessary to catch a glimpse of the tail would be a couple of hundred feet lower than this image:



He could NOT physically see the tail of the plane from the Navy Annex onwards. The only way he could have seen it is if he saw it as it passed over the Pentagon. Not speculation. Just stating a fact.

He was inside the centre court. HOW can he be called an ´impact witness´?

He isn´t.

Stanley, G.T.
on Route 27 getting off the Columbia Pike

¨Capt. G.T. Stanley of the Defense Protective Service was on Route 27 getting off at Columbia Pike near Wedge One of the Pentagon when he saw a jetliner flying low toward the building.

"I knew it was wrong," Stanley said. "That plane was screaming. The engines were so loud. I had a gut feeling that it was going to hit. I followed the plane down with my eyes. I saw it hit the building."

Seconds later he was at the crash site, helping victims. Stanley, of Beltsville, can still recall the putrid smell of the burning jet fuel, see the terror on the victims' faces, smell the charred flesh.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-476992.html

There are 3 points which join Columbia Pike to Route 27. One of which is too far from the alleged POV ´beside Wedge 1´.
Of the two points ´x´ and ´y´ on the following satellite pic, ´x´ is a southbound road which leads FROM Route 27 to Columbia Pike in contrast to this unconfirmed witness. So if it this media quote is to be believed, that puts him at point ´y´.



What does NOT correlate with the description given is his assertion
that ¨I followed it down with my eyes´ and the fact that he places himself directly in the path of the official route of the plane.
The plane would actually be heading straight for him, passing directly over his car and continuing on behind him.
It is the only way this line can be applied to the situation. He had to have seen the plane off to one side.
He completely omits a dramatic image of a jet bearing down on his car head on? He is in a position to see the the lightpoles? Lloyd´s cab being ´speared´?



He describes NOTHING of the sort.
He had a ´gut feeling it was going to hit´??
When it was allegedly 30ft agl heading for him? When?

Only one possibility exists. If his unconfirmed but only POV according to this media quote is to be believed, the plane did not pass through the official path. It didn´t plough through the lightpoles. It COULD NOT have hit the trailer. It did NOT ´impact´.

Definitely a witness that needs to be interviewed to point out exactly where he saw the plane from his alleged POV.



The following ´witnesses´ have some explaining to do.

Rodney Washington

systems engineer for a Pentagon contractor
´stuck in stand-still traffic a few hundred yards from the Pentagon´

¨hitting the ground on a helicopter pad just in front of the Pentagon and essentially bouncing into it. It "landed there and the momentum took it into the Pentagon.."

Why this constant theme of the plane ´hitting the lawn´ and ´bouncing into it´?
It definitely did NOT hit the lawn. And a ´bounce´ is totally contradictory to the low level approach and subsequent damage supposedly caused.

This higher altitude at between 2nd and 3rd level is repeated by almost all alleged witnesses in the immediate vicinity.

Lincoln Liebner (who also described a ´helicopter´ being struck) repeats this discrepancy in altitude.

Noel Sepulveda (who also claims that the plane ´stuck out of the building´ before exploding a moment later..). Although we now know 100% from medical reports that the blast knocked him unconscious.

HE BELIEVES THAT IF THE AIRLINER HAD NOT HIT THE LIGHT POLES, IT WOULD HAVE SLAMMED INTO THE PENTAGON'S 9TH AND 10TH CORRIDOR A-RING, and the loss of life would have been greater.¨

Wanda Ramey who claims that the plane ´skipped up´ from the middle of the lawn before ´impact´ and that there was a slight ´pause´ before the explosion.

" Recalling those moments again, Ramey said it appeared the building sucked the plane up inside. "A few seconds later, I heard a loud boom and I saw a huge fireball and lots of smoke," she said.

Tim Timmerman who claims that

it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground..

Sean Boger, in an interview with CIT was actually arguing vehemently that the plane was at the height of his POV in the helipad crossing the lawn!

Stephen McGraw in an interview with CIT said other witnesses´ description of the plane ´bouncing´ on the lawn ´rekindled´ memories of this happening.

Mary Ann Owens in her original interview

The fuselage hit the ground and blew up."

¨The plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon, PERHAPS at the third-floor level.¨

On deeper inspection as has been mentioned regarding these witnesses, many DEDUCED an ´impact´ given their POVs and the circumstances.
NONE describe the SOC final low level approach.

IMHO, the description of the lawn being struck first was the detonation of the explosives in the split second before reaching the facade.
The plane ´skipping up´ was the initial manouevre of the flyover from between the second and third level of the Pentagon.
The Pentagon has four floors. This manouevre would have been VERY possible.
The five second full expansion of the fireball would have supplied MORE than enough time and distraction to pull this off.
This is opinion based on not only the NOC testimony which is fatal to the official story, but closer examination of ALL testimony whether they believed they saw an ´impact´ or not.





I WAS going to omit the following group of witnesses on this list but
the anonymous accounts are an insult to this debate and are used
just to ´make up the numbers´


"Barbara"

ENSOR: So you believe it was a commercial airliner that was hitting the Pentagon?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and I'm not sure exactly where the Pentagon, where it was in relationship top where the plane went down. You know, but it was relatively close to one another. Whether it hit any of the Pentagon, I am not sure.

Anonymous AND did not see ´impact´


"Dave"
´near the Lincoln Memorial´

"Somebody said the Pentagon's gone up," said Dave...
Dave heard two booms, which sounded like the artillery salutes on the Mall on the Fourth of July, he said. It was likely the noise from a secondary blast at the Pentagon.

Second hand testimony from an anonymous ´witness´ quoting another anonymous ´witness´!
Allegedly HEARD an explosion. Also heard the secondary explosion that is never
discussed by the media.

"Div Devlin"
´in some hotel´

...my oldest son, John aged 12, pointed out the window yelling, "Dad look how low that plane is!" I looked but saw nothing and was sure it was just another of the myriad of low flights on their final approach into the airport. While looking out the window a low rumble was heard and smoke began to billow up into the sky.

Incredible that these ´people´ are used both by detractors and so-called truthers as counterevidence...

"Gus"
´across the Potomac´

"I saw the plane. Low. Too low. Fast."

Unbelievably the following person is on this list INCLUDING the quote:

"skarlet"

I want to know why there's this gap in my memory, this gap that makes it seem as though the plane simply became invisible and banked up at the very last minute..

So, are there ´100+ impact witnesses´?
Do ANY of them contradict NOC?
Do ANY describe SOC?
Does any of this ´testimony´ compare to CIT´s in-depth interviews?
Were any in a better position than the NOC witnesses to actually pinpoint the path they saw and which they ALL agree unilaterally on?

NO.

Sorry for the length of this post.
I will add a debunk of the remaining ´window witnesses´ (2-3km away)

Peace

Edit - grammar

Why is nobody responding to his post please explain?

Just curious thats all.

Just supplying a list (personal opinion) of witnesses for help in arguing with debunkers and for a quick reference to quotes and alleged POVs.

And I´m trying to get a panoramic idea of what people in all areas saw through the streetview and basically analyzing every piece of their (unconfirmed) testimony.
The thread is there for people to add to and more importantly pick at for mistakes so we can put them right.

CIT´s are the only ones in town as far as I´m concerned. These are just an examination of how much witnesses from other areas fail to contradict and even reinforce the NOC testimony.

Peace

Friggin' long post but from what I've scanned through, its looks pretty well done. This could be very useful. Thanks very much.

I imagine that there are so few posts because if someone like Craig (who is terribly dedicated) was going to post on this, he would cover everything to make sure he's not going to say something he would regret!

I learned that one the hard way.

Bitterman @ Jan 8 2010, 04:34 AM wrote: Friggin' long post but from what I've scanned through, its looks pretty well done. This could be very useful. Thanks very much.

I imagine that there are so few posts because if someone like Craig (who is terribly dedicated) was going to post on this, he would cover everything to make sure he's not going to say something he would regret!

I learned that one the hard way.

oneslice has done an amazing job here so please don't let our lack of responses suggest anything else.

However I haven't had the chance to go over all of it in detail because we have several involved projects of our own going at the moment.

From what I have read oneslice is absolutely on the mark.

Craig Ranke CIT @ Jan 8 2010, 06:07 AM wrote: oneslice has done an amazing job here so please don't let our lack of responses suggest anything else.

OSS, your article (consisting of 2 postings) is so impressive (and surprisingly entertaining for such a long list ) that I am sponsoring it by a $1200 translation into German for 911-archiv.net.

Given the frequent incongruities of English and German notions, the translation of these quotes is not easy, but since I have 11 years professional experience in translation I am confident that I can defend my work - I nearly finished it already.

Now I wonder whether it really covers all of the 194 witnesses listed in the Excel file, and also whether there is similar information available in other threads about witnesses which might not be included in this list, for example at Witnesses List Broken Down, No such thing as 104 "impact" witnesses.

This is particularly important for the title "NOBODY contradicts NOC" which seems to be somewhat bold once you see that it refers only to the above Excel list.
I am pondering about a more precise title, but without sacrificing its snatchiness.. B)

If there are more witnesses to cover, could you add them in a 3rd posting? I promise I will translate that one, too.
Another question is: What is the current number of NoC witnesses? You showed that many of the alleged SoC witnesses actually turned out to be NoC witnesses; so they might be fake, but at least they should be counted, although separately from the proven ones.

Harry

Harry_B @ Jul 19 2011, 06:14 AM wrote: OSS, your article (consisting of 2 postings) is so impressive (and surprisingly entertaining for such a long list ) that I am sponsoring it by a $1200 translation into German for 911-archiv.net.

Given the frequent incongruities of English and German notions, the translation of these quotes is not easy, but since I have 11 years professional experience in translation I am confident that I can defend my work - I nearly finished it already.

Now I wonder whether it really covers all of the 194 witnesses listed in the Excel file, and also whether there is similar information available in other threads about witnesses which might not be included in this list, for example at Witnesses List Broken Down, No such thing as 104 "impact" witnesses.

This is particularly important for the title "NOBODY contradicts NOC" which seems to be somewhat bold once you see that it refers only to the above Excel list.
I am pondering about a more precise title, but without sacrificing its snatchiness.. B)

If there are more witnesses to cover, could you add them in a 3rd posting? I promise I will translate that one, too.
Another question is: What is the current number of NoC witnesses? You showed that many of the alleged SoC witnesses actually turned out to be NoC witnesses; so they might be fake, but at least they should be counted, although separately from the proven ones.

Harry

Wow Harry that's incredile news! Thank you so much.

There is a lot of information in this post borrowed from excellent posts made by CIT researchers in the other thread you mention.

I agree, the title is a little strong, but it's how I personally feel having waded through all of the confirmed and alleged testimony available. I wasn't claiming that everyone (that wasn't independently interviewed) are definitive NOC witnesses but they certainly don't contradict it, you know? I made sure to distinguish the difference, naieve as I was at the time.

If I've learned anything from watching these guys work is that you can take nothing for granted until a witness is interviewed independently and specific questions are asked.

Even those desperate to find an alleged "SOC witness" further cemented the path! That's why I made a separate, more indepth thread for the proposed "SOC witnesses" instead of updating this one. There have been so many developments since this was posted.

If you want, you can use the title and add whatever you want to take the "boldness" out of it. How does that sound?

If there are witnesses that aren't included (I'm sure there are a few), you can send me the details and I can dust off some of my old files or see what I can find.

Again, much appreciated.

Peace

OSS