Is it so hard to accept the fact that one dub may be "better" than another dub (yes, they are in fact, both DUBBED in)?
You say that they use the same voice for Ed in every other anime. So what, I havn't seen that many animes, so I can't see that being something negative.
Faye? I can't think of a single complaint on the English side, while the Japanese one seemed too..uh..Japanese (sorry to offend you Megumi fanboys![]()
). Seriously, the Japense voice just sounds like "another" female, it doesn't really seem to add any strength to the character.
I love how people seem to think that an anime in its original language is "better" than a dub, REGARDLESS. Now in this case, both dubs were excellent, but as I said, I do like the English one better. It FITS better.
For those who are just joining me and Gest in this debate, here's the source of our arguments. Gest is coming from a purely anime background, where my background is more film-based (of which anime is only a small fraction of animation, which is only a small fraction of film...).
To me, a dubbed movie has its merits, but its still just what it is, a dub. When you have a live action movie, you have an actor who is reading the lines provided to them. The actor you see is (almost always) the actor you hear. So if you have Toshiro Mifune or Chow Yun Fat, the actor you see and hear is the same. When you dub over them, you are taking one actor (often specifically a voice actor) and replacing the audio over the original actor. So you are still visually seeing Toshiro Mifune's acting, but you are hearing someone else's aural acting.
Now here's where I split off from any otaku (and probably most of you all![]()
) regarding animation. When you animate something, you have an ARTIST supplying the visual acting. When the animation is finished, all of the "acting" that is present is due to the talent of the animators, nothing else. It is their style, their expressions, their look that has been put onto the film. Only THEN (in almost every case) the film is taken (whether in-studio or out) to the voice acting talents who supply the audio track.
Now while in the case of anime, this is likely done under the direction of the creators of the series, it is still what it is, a DUB. With an animated film, ALL of the audio (regardless if its coming from a VA or a foley artist) is dubbed, there is no such thing as SOT since it obviously doesn't exist. You aren't replacing Kichi Yamadera as an actor of Spike Spiegel since Spike simply (and obviously) doesn't exist in any form beyond a simple drawn cel. David Lucas is no more or less dubbed into Spike than Yamadera is, and neither actor is more or less "Spike" than the other. Wendee Lee is no more or less dubbed into Faye than Megumi is, and vice versa (and so on).
With me and animation, it really depends on a lot of factors (beyond the obvious being the quality of the actors) to end up with the decision to watch something subbed or dubbed. In the case of something like Lain, its a fairly obvious choice to watch it in Japanese, although I have seen it both subbed and dubbed. Why? One obvious reason is because its a very Japanese story, involving very Japanese characters, set in Japan. The English is simply out of place with the setting that has been given. Now let's look at Bebop. There is little or nothing "Japanese" about the series (again, this opinion is coming from a film background, not an otaku one) beyond the fact that it was created by the Japanese and dubbed into Japanese first (obviously due to the fact that it was released in Japan first). Hell, most of the referrences (whether its through the visuals, audio, plot, style, whatever) are from American pop culture, not Japanese.
Now let's look at some stuff here. Take the visuals. They style of the series incorprates many different designs, both visually and aurally. We see many settings that seem very Japanese, but many that are also very NON-Japanese. Look at almost any of the text in the series that is shown on the screen. The vast majority of it is in English, with a few others (such as Korean, Russian, etc.) thrown in to add to the diversity of the setting.
Then take the audio. Virtually all of the songs that have lyrics are in English, with the major exception being The Real Folk Blues (then again, the chorus is in English![]()
), which is in Japanese. The musical influences are also, extremely, non-Japanese, with such variety as jazz, blues, western (which is, if anything, more Italian than anything else), rock, pop, and others. They are all varied, and while they may not be "English" (even if they are IN English), they're still definately not Japanese in origin (even with a Japanese composer).
Now let's take the dialogue. Am I to assume that it is more likely that in the year 206X, Japanese is the primary language across our entire solar system, from Earth all the way out to the prisons on Mars? Will the Japanese language (and Empire) really grow that large as to overtake the universe as the primary language of communication (while text seems to stay with Roman characters)? Is that the Japanese dream or something, to one day make sure every person, from every race or origin, speaks their language? At least I have a better chance of assuming English would be the "basic" language (it already is, more or less, in the world of business), since most English speaking countries (ie, the US and UK) tend to want to take over everything possible, and language is no exception. So in that case, whether the Japanese language is the original one or not, in the universe that is Bebop, it is more logical to assume that English would be spoken.
Are my opinions valid to you? Maybe, maybe not. It is, afterall, just my humble opinion, coming from someone with a very different background from most of you. Sure, maybe the words that I've spoken here are as blasphemous to you as something like a dub for "The Seven Samurai" or "Grand Illusion" is to me. At least I figured I'd spend a little time in explaining the reasons behind one of my opinions, an opinion that seems to piss off quite a few people (such as Gest here).![]()
You say that they use the same voice for Ed in every other anime. So what, I havn't seen that many animes, so I can't see that being something negative.
Faye? I can't think of a single complaint on the English side, while the Japanese one seemed too..uh..Japanese (sorry to offend you Megumi fanboys
). Seriously, the Japense voice just sounds like "another" female, it doesn't really seem to add any strength to the character.I love how people seem to think that an anime in its original language is "better" than a dub, REGARDLESS. Now in this case, both dubs were excellent, but as I said, I do like the English one better. It FITS better.
For those who are just joining me and Gest in this debate, here's the source of our arguments. Gest is coming from a purely anime background, where my background is more film-based (of which anime is only a small fraction of animation, which is only a small fraction of film...).
To me, a dubbed movie has its merits, but its still just what it is, a dub. When you have a live action movie, you have an actor who is reading the lines provided to them. The actor you see is (almost always) the actor you hear. So if you have Toshiro Mifune or Chow Yun Fat, the actor you see and hear is the same. When you dub over them, you are taking one actor (often specifically a voice actor) and replacing the audio over the original actor. So you are still visually seeing Toshiro Mifune's acting, but you are hearing someone else's aural acting.
Now here's where I split off from any otaku (and probably most of you all
) regarding animation. When you animate something, you have an ARTIST supplying the visual acting. When the animation is finished, all of the "acting" that is present is due to the talent of the animators, nothing else. It is their style, their expressions, their look that has been put onto the film. Only THEN (in almost every case) the film is taken (whether in-studio or out) to the voice acting talents who supply the audio track. Now while in the case of anime, this is likely done under the direction of the creators of the series, it is still what it is, a DUB. With an animated film, ALL of the audio (regardless if its coming from a VA or a foley artist) is dubbed, there is no such thing as SOT since it obviously doesn't exist. You aren't replacing Kichi Yamadera as an actor of Spike Spiegel since Spike simply (and obviously) doesn't exist in any form beyond a simple drawn cel. David Lucas is no more or less dubbed into Spike than Yamadera is, and neither actor is more or less "Spike" than the other. Wendee Lee is no more or less dubbed into Faye than Megumi is, and vice versa (and so on).
With me and animation, it really depends on a lot of factors (beyond the obvious being the quality of the actors) to end up with the decision to watch something subbed or dubbed. In the case of something like Lain, its a fairly obvious choice to watch it in Japanese, although I have seen it both subbed and dubbed. Why? One obvious reason is because its a very Japanese story, involving very Japanese characters, set in Japan. The English is simply out of place with the setting that has been given. Now let's look at Bebop. There is little or nothing "Japanese" about the series (again, this opinion is coming from a film background, not an otaku one) beyond the fact that it was created by the Japanese and dubbed into Japanese first (obviously due to the fact that it was released in Japan first). Hell, most of the referrences (whether its through the visuals, audio, plot, style, whatever) are from American pop culture, not Japanese.
Now let's look at some stuff here. Take the visuals. They style of the series incorprates many different designs, both visually and aurally. We see many settings that seem very Japanese, but many that are also very NON-Japanese. Look at almost any of the text in the series that is shown on the screen. The vast majority of it is in English, with a few others (such as Korean, Russian, etc.) thrown in to add to the diversity of the setting.
Then take the audio. Virtually all of the songs that have lyrics are in English, with the major exception being The Real Folk Blues (then again, the chorus is in English
), which is in Japanese. The musical influences are also, extremely, non-Japanese, with such variety as jazz, blues, western (which is, if anything, more Italian than anything else), rock, pop, and others. They are all varied, and while they may not be "English" (even if they are IN English), they're still definately not Japanese in origin (even with a Japanese composer). Now let's take the dialogue. Am I to assume that it is more likely that in the year 206X, Japanese is the primary language across our entire solar system, from Earth all the way out to the prisons on Mars? Will the Japanese language (and Empire) really grow that large as to overtake the universe as the primary language of communication (while text seems to stay with Roman characters)? Is that the Japanese dream or something, to one day make sure every person, from every race or origin, speaks their language? At least I have a better chance of assuming English would be the "basic" language (it already is, more or less, in the world of business), since most English speaking countries (ie, the US and UK) tend to want to take over everything possible, and language is no exception. So in that case, whether the Japanese language is the original one or not, in the universe that is Bebop, it is more logical to assume that English would be spoken.
Are my opinions valid to you? Maybe, maybe not. It is, afterall, just my humble opinion, coming from someone with a very different background from most of you. Sure, maybe the words that I've spoken here are as blasphemous to you as something like a dub for "The Seven Samurai" or "Grand Illusion" is to me. At least I figured I'd spend a little time in explaining the reasons behind one of my opinions, an opinion that seems to piss off quite a few people (such as Gest here).
WHile I don't speak japanese, I have quite a few friends who do; so when I say something in a dub is mangled, I know what I'm talking about. Lordy, you haven't seen any of those series? :O That was part of my point, you don't know how generic the voices in the cowboy Bebop dub were because you haven't heard them a thousand times over. Anyhoo, we seem to agree on the rest.