starting problem

starting problem

Joined: August 14th, 2007, 1:01 pm

August 14th, 2007, 2:00 pm #1

i'm a new member here, been lurking for about a year though. our first boat was a 1961 28' connie. we owned her for 13 years. currently we own a 38' hatteras which is powered by 427 chris crafts. great engine, although the person who designed the fresh water pump pully system should be covered with fire ants. i digress. i fire up the port engine on sunday night and it doesn't sound right, exhaust is louder than normal. it quiets down some in a few seconds, but still not quite right. exhaust water seems normal flow. i let them warm up and notice the port is running a touch warmer than normal, just a bit over 160 but steady. we get about 4 minutes out of the marina, engine drop drops from 1500 rpms to about 1000, sputters and quits. cranks, but won't restart. thinking back, i seem to remember fridays statup exhaust a little louder than normal also but it went up to cruising with no hesitation and ran at normal temps. it now backfires when cranking, and will not start. checked the fuel in the filter, looks good. carb getting fuel also. gen runs off the same tank and had no issues. electronic ign, came with the boat, not pertronix, don't remember the name offhand. new cap/rotor/plugs/timing in spring, about 10 hours. pulled the cap and the contacts were black, so i'm thinking electrical. swapped the cap and rotor and cranked, still backfires. pulled the plugs, gap is still good, slight carbon fouling on #8, all other are seem good. tonight i will take a helper so i can crank it and verfy i'm getting spark. i will probably swap the coils, and if that doesn't work the carbs. if it is the coil, does anyone have a part number for it? any other tricks i should try?

thanks for any help,

jim
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Tim
Tim

August 14th, 2007, 2:46 pm #2

Captain,
Sounds like an ignition issue.Swap coils first but remember ,coils usually go bad when they get hot ,a cold swap might not prove anything ,also get a voltmeter and measure the ohms (resistance) of your coil and plug wires .You SHOULD be using SPIRAL CORE LOW RESISTANCE plug and coil wires .Those carbon core wires are from the STONE AGE !Are your coils original or replacements from previous owners ?Also check the ceramic ballast resistor ,if you have one ,for hairline cracks that will kill the engine when they warm up .
Keep this Forum updated !
Tim

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Joined: August 14th, 2007, 1:01 pm

August 14th, 2007, 3:09 pm #3

thanks for the info. don't know if coil was replaced by PO and i have not touched it. not sure how to check the ohm readings of the wires, but have a meter and am willing to learn. what should the reading be around?
my troubleshooting was conducted last night with cold engines so hot coils are not in play. you mention non-carbon wires, could you recommend a name and part number for the wires and a coil?

thanks,

jim
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Tim
Tim

August 14th, 2007, 3:09 pm #4

i'm a new member here, been lurking for about a year though. our first boat was a 1961 28' connie. we owned her for 13 years. currently we own a 38' hatteras which is powered by 427 chris crafts. great engine, although the person who designed the fresh water pump pully system should be covered with fire ants. i digress. i fire up the port engine on sunday night and it doesn't sound right, exhaust is louder than normal. it quiets down some in a few seconds, but still not quite right. exhaust water seems normal flow. i let them warm up and notice the port is running a touch warmer than normal, just a bit over 160 but steady. we get about 4 minutes out of the marina, engine drop drops from 1500 rpms to about 1000, sputters and quits. cranks, but won't restart. thinking back, i seem to remember fridays statup exhaust a little louder than normal also but it went up to cruising with no hesitation and ran at normal temps. it now backfires when cranking, and will not start. checked the fuel in the filter, looks good. carb getting fuel also. gen runs off the same tank and had no issues. electronic ign, came with the boat, not pertronix, don't remember the name offhand. new cap/rotor/plugs/timing in spring, about 10 hours. pulled the cap and the contacts were black, so i'm thinking electrical. swapped the cap and rotor and cranked, still backfires. pulled the plugs, gap is still good, slight carbon fouling on #8, all other are seem good. tonight i will take a helper so i can crank it and verfy i'm getting spark. i will probably swap the coils, and if that doesn't work the carbs. if it is the coil, does anyone have a part number for it? any other tricks i should try?

thanks for any help,

jim
Captain,
You need to be very careful when checking what type of coil your engines have .They are either internal ballast resisted or external ballast resisted with a ceramic resistor block or resistor wire and no ceramic block . You can melt down your ignition system with the wrong type of coil !
Keep us posted
Tim
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Joined: August 14th, 2007, 1:01 pm

August 14th, 2007, 3:24 pm #5

i've got the ceramic resister type.
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Paul
Paul

August 14th, 2007, 3:32 pm #6

i'm a new member here, been lurking for about a year though. our first boat was a 1961 28' connie. we owned her for 13 years. currently we own a 38' hatteras which is powered by 427 chris crafts. great engine, although the person who designed the fresh water pump pully system should be covered with fire ants. i digress. i fire up the port engine on sunday night and it doesn't sound right, exhaust is louder than normal. it quiets down some in a few seconds, but still not quite right. exhaust water seems normal flow. i let them warm up and notice the port is running a touch warmer than normal, just a bit over 160 but steady. we get about 4 minutes out of the marina, engine drop drops from 1500 rpms to about 1000, sputters and quits. cranks, but won't restart. thinking back, i seem to remember fridays statup exhaust a little louder than normal also but it went up to cruising with no hesitation and ran at normal temps. it now backfires when cranking, and will not start. checked the fuel in the filter, looks good. carb getting fuel also. gen runs off the same tank and had no issues. electronic ign, came with the boat, not pertronix, don't remember the name offhand. new cap/rotor/plugs/timing in spring, about 10 hours. pulled the cap and the contacts were black, so i'm thinking electrical. swapped the cap and rotor and cranked, still backfires. pulled the plugs, gap is still good, slight carbon fouling on #8, all other are seem good. tonight i will take a helper so i can crank it and verfy i'm getting spark. i will probably swap the coils, and if that doesn't work the carbs. if it is the coil, does anyone have a part number for it? any other tricks i should try?

thanks for any help,

jim
Hello Jim,

Good hearing from you, Hatteras guys are welcome too. I have a set of 427 Chris Craft engines that were removed from a Hatteras shortly after being rebuilt, in favor of diesels. It is interesting to hear of another Hatteras with CC motors, it is a part of the Chris Craft history many people don't know too much about.

Regarding the advice from Tim. You can do very well by paying specific attention to every word. for instance, if he says toss the carbon plug wires, then toss them! Yes, they work, but not as well as the alternative.

I've been aboard Tim's boat, and I've never seen or heard any carb motors start any better. The guy KNOWS how to tune a 427 !!







PS: A few thoughts on that loud starting. I've noticed my exhaust mufflers (CC used cast iron suitcase size mufflers, and perhaps you are using the same since your power is CC) and these have a tendency to evaporate water out over time if they are not used. As they get dry the startup will really bellow until the pump catches up and fills the internal compartment. In addition, there may be some internal corrosion in one muffler or another that affects the internal water containment (and sound). I'm not sure the "loud" starting sound has anything to do with your drivability issues. A while back I noticed some additional noise too, and it was a chunk of that ferrous iron collector giving way, and it was pumping water and fumes into the engine compartment. Your boat probably has the copper collectors similar to what Tim (and I) have on our boats. You might want to take a look at the exhaust system to be sure you're not getting noise from it internally.

I mention this along with your drivability issues, becuase it is not uncommon to have more than one thing affecting these old boats simultaneously. Happy motoring, please DO keep us up to date on the issues you face, because there are numerous others out there who will be able to benefit from knowing the symptoms and the eventual fix.

Sincerely, all the best,

Paul
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Joined: August 14th, 2007, 1:01 pm

August 14th, 2007, 3:51 pm #7

thanks for the welcome. thankfully i don't have any issues with the mufflers because hatteras built EVERYTHING out of glass, (mufflers, exhaust tubes, holding tanks, fuel tanks(which hurt big time when ethanol came to town)) and more glass was better.

jim
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Tim
Tim

August 14th, 2007, 4:27 pm #8

i'm a new member here, been lurking for about a year though. our first boat was a 1961 28' connie. we owned her for 13 years. currently we own a 38' hatteras which is powered by 427 chris crafts. great engine, although the person who designed the fresh water pump pully system should be covered with fire ants. i digress. i fire up the port engine on sunday night and it doesn't sound right, exhaust is louder than normal. it quiets down some in a few seconds, but still not quite right. exhaust water seems normal flow. i let them warm up and notice the port is running a touch warmer than normal, just a bit over 160 but steady. we get about 4 minutes out of the marina, engine drop drops from 1500 rpms to about 1000, sputters and quits. cranks, but won't restart. thinking back, i seem to remember fridays statup exhaust a little louder than normal also but it went up to cruising with no hesitation and ran at normal temps. it now backfires when cranking, and will not start. checked the fuel in the filter, looks good. carb getting fuel also. gen runs off the same tank and had no issues. electronic ign, came with the boat, not pertronix, don't remember the name offhand. new cap/rotor/plugs/timing in spring, about 10 hours. pulled the cap and the contacts were black, so i'm thinking electrical. swapped the cap and rotor and cranked, still backfires. pulled the plugs, gap is still good, slight carbon fouling on #8, all other are seem good. tonight i will take a helper so i can crank it and verfy i'm getting spark. i will probably swap the coils, and if that doesn't work the carbs. if it is the coil, does anyone have a part number for it? any other tricks i should try?

thanks for any help,

jim
Captain,
Good that you have identified the "external ceramic ballast resistor"for your engine.I can`t suggest a coil make but it will need to be an "external ballast type"for points style ignition.The quickest test is to replace the distributor cap with a new one .More than one "offshore made dist cap" has failed with the first turn of the key !!
The plug wires should read no more than 500 ohms /foot,ie:2 foot wire =1000 ohms.My personal set-up is from Splitfire at 250 ohms /foot.
The 427 engine uses # WS 8100 a direct bolt on with no cutting .Many other makes are available ,but may require cutting and crimping connectors.Splitfire /1-800-477-5847 and press "0" to reach sales. Tim
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Joined: August 14th, 2007, 1:01 pm

August 14th, 2007, 4:55 pm #9

thanks, i've only used my meter for 12v or 120v testing, how would i use it for ohms (if it has that feature)?

jim
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Paul
Paul

August 14th, 2007, 4:58 pm #10

Captain,
Good that you have identified the "external ceramic ballast resistor"for your engine.I can`t suggest a coil make but it will need to be an "external ballast type"for points style ignition.The quickest test is to replace the distributor cap with a new one .More than one "offshore made dist cap" has failed with the first turn of the key !!
The plug wires should read no more than 500 ohms /foot,ie:2 foot wire =1000 ohms.My personal set-up is from Splitfire at 250 ohms /foot.
The 427 engine uses # WS 8100 a direct bolt on with no cutting .Many other makes are available ,but may require cutting and crimping connectors.Splitfire /1-800-477-5847 and press "0" to reach sales. Tim
$56 per set, just ordered two of em myself. I have been intending to do this, but faced with a toll free number and the ID number, I figured this was time!

Reference ID number was correct, guy was nice and to the point.

Now I need to get a set for the Skiff too, but later!

Regards, Paul

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