Peter
Peter

October 5th, 2011, 8:00 am #51

It appears they (Chris Craft) produced an "Offshore" model in 1970, 1971, and 1972, and 578 hulls were built.

I really don't see a lot of differences between the Offshore and the basic Lancer that started production in 1966 but the Offshore has stripes on the decks and potentially a blue (depending on year I guess) hull side color.

Other than some minor trim features I think the "Offshore" was just the basic great 23' hull being sold under a new and different spin.

Any 23' hull out of this Lancer or Commander line is going to be basically the same wetted area, naturally the inboards have a prop pocket erouded out of the bottom, but other than that they're all basically the same great performing hull. All Offshore models had the 307 QLV motor





Regards,

Paul
have blue hull,blue stripes on each side of the deck and aft, engine with Volvo 250 I/O drive. The boat is not very pretty at first, but the hull is in really good condition for age without any cracks or scratches etc. The deck needs a bit of attention but are not to bad. I was told that the engine was a 350 chevy but I got a red CC manual saying 307QLV. It took a while before I could identify this "chevy" engine because of its mounting backwards in the boat. The block cast nr is 3970010 whitch means 327 or 350 according to the lists?????????
I was also told that the engine was bored and had ported heads putting out 275 HP. The engine has orange painted heads with modern Barr exhausts and risers mounted instead of the CC style - can these exhausts be mounted on the original heads?
There are lot of possibilities here - the block may be changed, the heads can be newer ones etc. The distributer is marked J1171 Marine and have upright cables instead of the "flat" head variant and there is also a mercruiser electronic ignition mounted.

The engine starts easely, runs fine at idle speed ( on shore in my garden where it will be for maybe two yers)oil lookes fine and have a minor leak in the water circulation pump. Is this pump standard or special cc? It is LH rotation according to CC manuals which means RH (opposite) compare to std chevy motors.
I am thinking of change the motor to a newer (but used) standard chevy 350 mounted "the right way" for more reliability, easier spares,
fueleconomy,(in that order)
OR
is it bad of me to put a non cc modern engine in - should I go for overhauling the original one whitch is not complete original after all?

How long can you trust this motorblock will last because of corrosion? (no fresh water cooling)

Best regards
Peter

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Joined: June 7th, 2006, 2:28 am

October 5th, 2011, 11:19 am #52

Hi Peter,

We would like to see pics of your boat, Sounds like you have a 327 or 350 for sure because the casting numbers don't lie. A 307 has a 3.75 bore. It is essentially a 283 with a 327 crankshaft. My bet would be you have a 350 and it could be a standard left hand engine still mounted backwards in the Q configuration because a Volvo outdrive can be made to run in either direction simply by changing the shift linkage behind the rear cover. Both engines would use the same rotation distributor, that doesnt change, because Chevy changed the cam rotation, not the distributor rotation. Please get the casting numbers off your heads under the valve cover. Yes the Barr exhaust would work on both those engines. You could easily have 275 hp engine there. I wouldn't worry about the corrosion. Run it until she blows. You can't do anything about past history anyway, just do a good job winterizing it from here forward with A/F in the block. I, like you would rather have the engine turned in the forward orientation but let others chime in here with their opinions on that originality subject. I will be having questions too when my Lancer project starts, in that area. I am more into performance than originality so I may have to control myself not to install a late model big block or Volvo DP in mine.

Greg Mason
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Joined: August 26th, 2011, 11:36 am

October 6th, 2011, 1:42 am #53

It is hard to grind something unknown in shape.
It would help a lot if someone with an identical wheel could take a close up picture of the shaft end.
Good idea to cut the shaft an work on this outside the boat or take it to a shop. Is it possible to pull out the shaft if I loosen the nut and spring on the backside? (The shaft can move a bit in and out with the compression of the spring- my guess this is for how much resistance you want? ). The steering gear is fully functional besides that the wheel is stuck on the shaft and I like it to be as original as possible.

Regards

Peter






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Tom Slayton
Tom Slayton

October 6th, 2011, 1:29 pm #54

Seems like a rather involved and overly complicated assembly, but once tightened down I doubt it ever would come loose.

Tom
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Paul
Paul

October 6th, 2011, 2:01 pm #55

Hi Peter,

We would like to see pics of your boat, Sounds like you have a 327 or 350 for sure because the casting numbers don't lie. A 307 has a 3.75 bore. It is essentially a 283 with a 327 crankshaft. My bet would be you have a 350 and it could be a standard left hand engine still mounted backwards in the Q configuration because a Volvo outdrive can be made to run in either direction simply by changing the shift linkage behind the rear cover. Both engines would use the same rotation distributor, that doesnt change, because Chevy changed the cam rotation, not the distributor rotation. Please get the casting numbers off your heads under the valve cover. Yes the Barr exhaust would work on both those engines. You could easily have 275 hp engine there. I wouldn't worry about the corrosion. Run it until she blows. You can't do anything about past history anyway, just do a good job winterizing it from here forward with A/F in the block. I, like you would rather have the engine turned in the forward orientation but let others chime in here with their opinions on that originality subject. I will be having questions too when my Lancer project starts, in that area. I am more into performance than originality so I may have to control myself not to install a late model big block or Volvo DP in mine.

Greg Mason
I agree with Greg, run it until it blows. Keep good oil in it and it will possibly run a long time. It really takes a LOT of running to wear one of these V8 motors out, and in reality, we don't put that many hours on them.

As for the reverse orientation of the motor, I wouldn't worry about that, it has nothing to do with reliability, and changing it would be a lot bigger job than you ever imagined. In the event the drivetrain and/or motor were totally exploded for some reason, then installing a totally new Crusader or Mercruiser motor and outdrive are always a possibility. The hull is going to outlive the motor on many of these vintage CC boats.

regards,

Paul
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Peter
Peter

October 7th, 2011, 7:57 am #56






solution. I could never ever have figured this out without these pictures - thank you. The engineer who invented this must have been understimulated at work
Mine could be this way but I have not the friction-bolt ( or whatever it is) with the plastic grip on top so maybe I have another mechanical solution. I will take a picture of this.

Is the big center bolt going right thru the splines shaft?

I agree with Tom,this looks impossible to disassemble when it has come to this stage of corrosion but I will try. ( the mechanism works, I can steer the boat but I need to take it apart for restoring the wheel).

Regards

Peter
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Peter
Peter

October 7th, 2011, 9:34 am #57

Hi Peter,

We would like to see pics of your boat, Sounds like you have a 327 or 350 for sure because the casting numbers don't lie. A 307 has a 3.75 bore. It is essentially a 283 with a 327 crankshaft. My bet would be you have a 350 and it could be a standard left hand engine still mounted backwards in the Q configuration because a Volvo outdrive can be made to run in either direction simply by changing the shift linkage behind the rear cover. Both engines would use the same rotation distributor, that doesnt change, because Chevy changed the cam rotation, not the distributor rotation. Please get the casting numbers off your heads under the valve cover. Yes the Barr exhaust would work on both those engines. You could easily have 275 hp engine there. I wouldn't worry about the corrosion. Run it until she blows. You can't do anything about past history anyway, just do a good job winterizing it from here forward with A/F in the block. I, like you would rather have the engine turned in the forward orientation but let others chime in here with their opinions on that originality subject. I will be having questions too when my Lancer project starts, in that area. I am more into performance than originality so I may have to control myself not to install a late model big block or Volvo DP in mine.

Greg Mason
good with a little opinions and advice. I am beginning to lean against keeping the engine an "run till it blows" There is a couple of things making it hard to make up my mind.

1. I am not afraid of the fact that the engine is mounted backwards but it may make things more expensive and complicated to maintain. The circulation waterpump is leaking - is this standard or special pump because of backwards mounting?
The cooling system seems a bit complicated to me. If i want a freshwater system would it be possible to mount a modern standard one?

I am in Sweden so it is more expensive for me to to get special parts from US ( both freight and 25% tax costs)

2. In the end, if I know myself, I want to check the transom (if the wood is wet or not), paint under the engine etc etc so the engine must out anyway at some point. I am in no hurry and want this to be a properly done renovation with an original look and a boat to admire but not at "any" cost. I do not want a boat which always needs fixing and not are reliable. This is "additional" boating for me, first priority is (if I dare to mention this)- sailing.

Anyone have an idea of top speed with this 275 Hp motor? Around 40 Knots?


Pictures coming

Thank you all for engagement and opinions

//Peter

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Paul
Paul

October 7th, 2011, 1:53 pm #58

Backwards mounting is not more expensive or complicated to maintain. Pumps are pumps, you'll pay the same cost to buy or repair them, and they're easily available. The motor does not know it is backwards, because hooking to the front of the crankshaft makes no difference mechanically, same forces apply as if the load was hooked to the rear of the crankshaft. The cooling systems for these boats were a "check the box" option at Chris Craft, you could get standard or closed cooling. Therefore if your boat has standard cooling now, you can still find a complete Chris Craft closed cooling system if you shop around. Many of these parts are sitting in shops now on motors that are worn out. It would be easy to hook an aftermarket heat exchanger onto any motor as well, as Mike Burdette did in the photos below, he used Volvo Penta exchangers here.




The engines came out of a 1979 model Catalina. The boat had been repowered in 1993 and had sat for a number of years. They each had about 175 hours on them. The major differences on the SBC seem to be the location of the valve cover bolts (4 down the middle of the cover) and a one piece rear main seal on the newer model engines.

You can not judge a motor by the paint.



Here is Paul Mathias's nice 350Q installation with the Chris Craft closed cooling system on an inboard 23 Lancer. This can be used as a great reference tool for what one should look like. Note the motor is backwards on this application too, and this is a good thing, because getting the flywheel forward takes it out of the zone where it would scoop water and spray it around the engine compartment if you got any water in the bilge. I have that problem with my 20' fiberglass Sea Skiff with the aft mounted flywheel on the 327F motor.



If you decide to install the standard Chris Craft closed cooling, there are probably some people here on The Forum who would either have these parts or know where to get them.

Regards,

Paul






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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 3:42 am

June 11th, 2012, 2:03 pm #59

Yes, they even made a 17' Lancer. Again, how many of these have we seen for sale in the last 3 or 4 years? Not any??













I am going to look at one of these today, stay tuned!
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Joined: October 3rd, 2012, 7:00 pm

October 3rd, 2012, 7:03 pm #60

When these brochures tell you how good these boats ride, they speak the truth! I'm amazed, to say the least, and I've run (and loathed) my share of small boats! To think I might happen upon a 25 foot version makes me light headed and dizzy! That ride, combined with the extra room, yet relatively small and sporty... I'm ALL in! I might as well start looking now as it will likely be quite a while before I find one...

Kloka-NUTS!
I have a bare hull in restorable condition located in Maine.
Last edited by Billyboy9 on October 3rd, 2012, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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