mercrewser
mercrewser

February 12th, 2011, 10:57 pm #41

Paul and All:
Unbelievably identical hulls. My eye saw no difference. I wonder then, how the interior strengtheners differed if at all. V-Berth, helm set ups don't make the boat. Very interesting Chapter in the lives of our 23's. By the way, I am back in on the big race, now that I am on Nadia's good side thanks to Glenn F. and his golden gift of gab!
Jerry - Sidewalk
Just wanted to clarify, these hulls look similar, but are entirely different.

Like the 233, the lancer series was popped by at least one other builder, AMF Crestliner. They offered a 17, 19, and 24.

The 233 was offered with a variety of different powerplants, some pretty wild for racing purposes. I think one even had tandem 427 inboards sharing a single propeller shaft.

These boats are all pieced together. The 233 shares a Nova's transom, (the 233 was first) and was a modified from another boat, a SeaBird (I think??). BTW, the 24 Seabird is an interesting boat that looks like a cross between a Lancer and 233. One near me with a 318 and Paragon v-drive.

The history of how these boats came to be is interesting. Alan "Brownie" Brown is the man that was there, working and racing with Aranow. He has all the answers and stories and he frequents other forums.
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Peter
Peter

October 4th, 2011, 3:39 pm #42

Well I have seen one with my own two eyes and I have heard directly from Dick Avery that the 25 is a Jim Wynne hull too. Here are some photos from Bay Harbor 2010, compliments of Bill Policastro and his father-in-law, Tom.

Here are two Jim Wynne hulls with topsides by Dick Avery, a combination that is very hard to beat in this era, or anytime. This is Herb Pocklington (left) with Bill Policastro, in front of Bill's 23' Commander GHOST RIDER, with a 25' Lancer beyond.


Not only is it a 25' Lancer with that deep V Wynne hull, it's a twin!!






Power is from Buick V6 motors, here is the one on the port side, freshly painted.



At 83 years old and with two new knees, we could not keep Herb Pocklington out of the boat. Here he is with Bill aboard the 25.




Regards,

Paul









Hi,

great forum - lot of info to a new owner of a lancer 23 -70 restoration project.
I have an identical original steering wheel like the one above with open slots. Problem is that the center inside the hub is totally rusted to a unrecognizable lump. I have tried the dremel a little but i can't figure out how it is connected. Is it threads and nut? Straight or conical? I do like to try to save both the steering mechanism and the wheel if possible. The steering wheel is in my opinion one of the most important thing for original look don't you think?
Can anyone explain how it is connected or even better put in a close up photo.
Could also be intrested if there were any for sale.

I also have need for aluminium frame parts for repair of starboard windscreen - is this material possible to buy today?

// Peter
p.davison@telia.com
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Paul
Paul

October 4th, 2011, 4:01 pm #43

Hello Peter, and WELCOME ABOARD!

Congratulations on your 23 Chris Craft project, these are great hulls and the performance in rough water will put a smile on your face, and you will get a lot of looks and compliments. Next thing you know Forum Regular, Dave Krugler, may not know it yet but he will be looking for one too, because he has "boatitis" very badly and a new project will help ease the pain a lot.

It is odd that you have the slotted steering wheel in a 23, but it does make sense because the 25' boats were built from 1969-1971. 85 of the 25 Sportsman hulls were built, 75 of the 25 Sports Fisherman, and 80 of the open 25 Lancer were built, so that is not a big production order for steering wheels.

Interestingly due to your post, I just noticed that the Chris Craft Essential Guide does not show ANY 23 Lancer (outdrives) built during model year 1970, 71, 72, 0r 73, but picking up again in 1974 through 1975 and this may be an error on the part of the book. They do show 123 Lancer Offshore Models built in 1970, along with 280 more in 1971 and 175 more in 1972, along with 80 Lancer Express models in 1967-1968. Apparently they were focusing on inboards in 1972-through 1974 as 405 were built in those three years, and then more onto 1977,

In any case my 1973 Lancer has the now infamous DetMar cast aluminum wheel, not as sporty as yours. Chris Craft is notorious for buying a lot of steering wheels and then just pulling from stock as long as the supply lasts. For instance, I have a 1939 Chris Craft speedboat mounted on the wall of my living room, and it has the same exact steering wheel as the 1956 17' Chris Craft Sportsman I have in the basement now, and Chris Craft even used that same steering wheel on some of the flybridge installations on Commanders produced after 1964. The cast aluminum DetMar (Detroit Marine) was used on my 1966 20' fiberglass Sea Skiff, and even on the flybridge of a 36' Commander Tournament Fisherman.

Now we can add your particular steering wheel to the mix, so thank you for pointing this obscure fact out, and good luck restoring yours. Personally I have no idea how to prise off that cover, but I would think it is probably a push in "force fit" of sorts, and once off it will reveal a large nut holding the steering wheel to the steering shaft.

As for the windshield pieces, good luck, those are truely unique extrusions that most likely are not available now, but many windshield manufacturers may have some that are similar. The mere mention of a windshield will cause me some pain, as I have run my Skiff for a few years without one

Best of luck, send us some photos of your project when you get a chance,

Paul
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Joined: August 26th, 2011, 11:36 am

October 4th, 2011, 5:10 pm #44

There should be a small spring clip around the center of the steering wheel. If you insert a small screwdriver and pry it out, the wheel slides right off. I'll try to grab a couple pictures for you.
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Peter
Peter

October 4th, 2011, 8:24 pm #45

Hello Peter, and WELCOME ABOARD!

Congratulations on your 23 Chris Craft project, these are great hulls and the performance in rough water will put a smile on your face, and you will get a lot of looks and compliments. Next thing you know Forum Regular, Dave Krugler, may not know it yet but he will be looking for one too, because he has "boatitis" very badly and a new project will help ease the pain a lot.

It is odd that you have the slotted steering wheel in a 23, but it does make sense because the 25' boats were built from 1969-1971. 85 of the 25 Sportsman hulls were built, 75 of the 25 Sports Fisherman, and 80 of the open 25 Lancer were built, so that is not a big production order for steering wheels.

Interestingly due to your post, I just noticed that the Chris Craft Essential Guide does not show ANY 23 Lancer (outdrives) built during model year 1970, 71, 72, 0r 73, but picking up again in 1974 through 1975 and this may be an error on the part of the book. They do show 123 Lancer Offshore Models built in 1970, along with 280 more in 1971 and 175 more in 1972, along with 80 Lancer Express models in 1967-1968. Apparently they were focusing on inboards in 1972-through 1974 as 405 were built in those three years, and then more onto 1977,

In any case my 1973 Lancer has the now infamous DetMar cast aluminum wheel, not as sporty as yours. Chris Craft is notorious for buying a lot of steering wheels and then just pulling from stock as long as the supply lasts. For instance, I have a 1939 Chris Craft speedboat mounted on the wall of my living room, and it has the same exact steering wheel as the 1956 17' Chris Craft Sportsman I have in the basement now, and Chris Craft even used that same steering wheel on some of the flybridge installations on Commanders produced after 1964. The cast aluminum DetMar (Detroit Marine) was used on my 1966 20' fiberglass Sea Skiff, and even on the flybridge of a 36' Commander Tournament Fisherman.

Now we can add your particular steering wheel to the mix, so thank you for pointing this obscure fact out, and good luck restoring yours. Personally I have no idea how to prise off that cover, but I would think it is probably a push in "force fit" of sorts, and once off it will reveal a large nut holding the steering wheel to the steering shaft.

As for the windshield pieces, good luck, those are truely unique extrusions that most likely are not available now, but many windshield manufacturers may have some that are similar. The mere mention of a windshield will cause me some pain, as I have run my Skiff for a few years without one

Best of luck, send us some photos of your project when you get a chance,

Paul
Thank you for welcoming.

Impressive knowledge here. Is it not "my" steering wheel in the broscure scan of the offshore lancer -71 at the top of this post? I will try to take some pictures of my boat later on ( this will probably be a slow long time project). I think the model is really nice just as big as possible without being too big if you see what I mean.
What is specific for "offshore" lancer?

Regards

Peter
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Peter
Peter

October 4th, 2011, 8:31 pm #46

There should be a small spring clip around the center of the steering wheel. If you insert a small screwdriver and pry it out, the wheel slides right off. I'll try to grab a couple pictures for you.
Thank you for promt answer. But my problem is inside under the cap - could it have been a nut here before the corrosion have integrated the parts to one single brown rusty lump? Looking forward to pictures.

Regards
Peter
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Tom Slayton
Tom Slayton

October 4th, 2011, 9:41 pm #47

Most likely there is a tapered shaft not unlike your prop shaft, with a key that takes all the force of steering. The top of the shaft would most likely be threaded and a nut would be affixed to secure the wheel to the shaft. From what I see in your post, the nut and top of the shaft may be totally corroded, and if this is the case, the wheel may be fused to the shaft. I would first grind the corroded part down to where I could see the profile of the shaft and inner part of the wheel. Then if there is a key there, you could tap on it and put some solvent in. I am not sure a flame would work because it may damage the wheel, but heating things generally makes them move a bit and it would promote seepage of the solvent (something like Liquid Wrench product). Once the solvent/lubrication has had a chance to work, I would try a wheel puller and you may have to drill a dimple in the end of the shaft to keep things steady. Beware, a wheel puller may deform the wheel if too much pressure is applied. In the end if you are really determined, you may have to literally drill out the insides of the shaft to the point where things finally release. If you cut the shaft off and take the wheel to a machine shop, they would be able to press the old shaft out without hurting the wheel. If you cut the shaft off and drill a hole into the remaining part of the shaft big enough to insert a saw blade, you can cut laterally toward the wheel hub and this will help make the shaft lose corrosion bond with the wheel. Hope this helps, that is the mindset I would take if that wheel is really something to save, and it sounds like it is. Be gentle as there appear to be several ways to damage the wheel.

Tom
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Paul
Paul

October 4th, 2011, 9:54 pm #48

Thank you for welcoming.

Impressive knowledge here. Is it not "my" steering wheel in the broscure scan of the offshore lancer -71 at the top of this post? I will try to take some pictures of my boat later on ( this will probably be a slow long time project). I think the model is really nice just as big as possible without being too big if you see what I mean.
What is specific for "offshore" lancer?

Regards

Peter
It appears they (Chris Craft) produced an "Offshore" model in 1970, 1971, and 1972, and 578 hulls were built.

I really don't see a lot of differences between the Offshore and the basic Lancer that started production in 1966 but the Offshore has stripes on the decks and potentially a blue (depending on year I guess) hull side color.

Other than some minor trim features I think the "Offshore" was just the basic great 23' hull being sold under a new and different spin.

Any 23' hull out of this Lancer or Commander line is going to be basically the same wetted area, naturally the inboards have a prop pocket erouded out of the bottom, but other than that they're all basically the same great performing hull. All Offshore models had the 307 QLV motor





Regards,

Paul
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Paul
Paul

October 4th, 2011, 10:11 pm #49

Just wanted to clarify, these hulls look similar, but are entirely different.

Like the 233, the lancer series was popped by at least one other builder, AMF Crestliner. They offered a 17, 19, and 24.

The 233 was offered with a variety of different powerplants, some pretty wild for racing purposes. I think one even had tandem 427 inboards sharing a single propeller shaft.

These boats are all pieced together. The 233 shares a Nova's transom, (the 233 was first) and was a modified from another boat, a SeaBird (I think??). BTW, the 24 Seabird is an interesting boat that looks like a cross between a Lancer and 233. One near me with a 318 and Paragon v-drive.

The history of how these boats came to be is interesting. Alan "Brownie" Brown is the man that was there, working and racing with Aranow. He has all the answers and stories and he frequents other forums.
my kinda boat!





Paul
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Peter
Peter

October 5th, 2011, 7:08 am #50

Most likely there is a tapered shaft not unlike your prop shaft, with a key that takes all the force of steering. The top of the shaft would most likely be threaded and a nut would be affixed to secure the wheel to the shaft. From what I see in your post, the nut and top of the shaft may be totally corroded, and if this is the case, the wheel may be fused to the shaft. I would first grind the corroded part down to where I could see the profile of the shaft and inner part of the wheel. Then if there is a key there, you could tap on it and put some solvent in. I am not sure a flame would work because it may damage the wheel, but heating things generally makes them move a bit and it would promote seepage of the solvent (something like Liquid Wrench product). Once the solvent/lubrication has had a chance to work, I would try a wheel puller and you may have to drill a dimple in the end of the shaft to keep things steady. Beware, a wheel puller may deform the wheel if too much pressure is applied. In the end if you are really determined, you may have to literally drill out the insides of the shaft to the point where things finally release. If you cut the shaft off and take the wheel to a machine shop, they would be able to press the old shaft out without hurting the wheel. If you cut the shaft off and drill a hole into the remaining part of the shaft big enough to insert a saw blade, you can cut laterally toward the wheel hub and this will help make the shaft lose corrosion bond with the wheel. Hope this helps, that is the mindset I would take if that wheel is really something to save, and it sounds like it is. Be gentle as there appear to be several ways to damage the wheel.

Tom
It is hard to grind something unknown in shape.
It would help a lot if someone with an identical wheel could take a close up picture of the shaft end.
Good idea to cut the shaft an work on this outside the boat or take it to a shop. Is it possible to pull out the shaft if I loosen the nut and spring on the backside? (The shaft can move a bit in and out with the compression of the spring- my guess this is for how much resistance you want? ). The steering gear is fully functional besides that the wheel is stuck on the shaft and I like it to be as original as possible.

Regards

Peter
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