Kevin
Kevin

January 29th, 2009, 2:16 pm #31

I called on the boat, I though I had seen it before. That website grabs old listings from other sources, like Yacht World, and populates their site. According to the yard, the boat was sold a year and a half ago

Kevin
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Paul
Paul

January 29th, 2009, 9:55 pm #32

thought you might have gone fiberglass!

Paul
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Kevin
Kevin

January 29th, 2009, 10:29 pm #33

Soon my friend, soon. Might as well have somthing to play with as I work on my '48

Kevin
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Paul
Paul

January 30th, 2009, 1:15 am #34

I have a woodie for special occasions, but I run the glass boats.

Paul
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Paul
Paul

September 28th, 2010, 1:55 pm #35

I think you can sense just how close this particular model came to being called a Commander. If it were not for a stroke of the pen, this boat would have been a Commander. It is a close cousin, styled by the same guy who styled numerous Commander models, Dick Avery, and it was up to the marketing department to position the boats competitively in the marketplace. They called this one a Lancer, but could (or should) it have been badged a Commander 25?









Regards,

Paul
Well I have seen one with my own two eyes and I have heard directly from Dick Avery that the 25 is a Jim Wynne hull too. Here are some photos from Bay Harbor 2010, compliments of Bill Policastro and his father-in-law, Tom.

Here are two Jim Wynne hulls with topsides by Dick Avery, a combination that is very hard to beat in this era, or anytime. This is Herb Pocklington (left) with Bill Policastro, in front of Bill's 23' Commander GHOST RIDER, with a 25' Lancer beyond.


Not only is it a 25' Lancer with that deep V Wynne hull, it's a twin!!






Power is from Buick V6 motors, here is the one on the port side, freshly painted.



At 83 years old and with two new knees, we could not keep Herb Pocklington out of the boat. Here he is with Bill aboard the 25.




Regards,

Paul










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Paul
Paul

September 28th, 2010, 2:08 pm #36

The Lancer is a very close cousin to the Chris Craft Commander. After all, the 23' Lancer and the 23' Commander share the same hull forms.

Here's some info that should give us all a bigger appreciation for this awesome Chris Craft line, especially after having seen John Kloka snag one that looks like the owner spent every evening rubbing on another layer of carnuba.


And now.............drumroll please,



here is the Lancer, as promoted in the 1966 Chris Craft lineup!




Here's the 23' Lancer Offshore model ! ( 1971 model )




more Lancer stuff in next post.......................

Paul
Since these Corsairs and Lancers are so close to the Commander family tree, with the 23 Lancer and 23 Commander sharing the same hull, we're happy to assemble and post as much info as we can on these boats. They're built the same as the Commanders, using the same gelcoat and resin. In addition, the 19' Lancer and 19' Commander Super Sport (XK19) share the same hull too !

Here is a treasure trove of information on the Corsair and Lancer line!
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/thread/1170893458

Regards, enjoy,

Paul
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Jerry
Jerry

September 28th, 2010, 3:07 pm #37

Paul:
You are Da Man!
Jerry FILO
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Paul
Paul

February 11th, 2011, 4:10 pm #38

Ever notice how darn similar the original Forumula 233 looks to the 23' Lancer?

No wonder..........they are both designed by Jim Wynne.



"The 233 was Aronow's first boat under the Formula name. It was designed by Jim Wynne. This was Aronow's first race boat and in collaboration with Jim Wynne and Walt Walters they founded the Formula Boat Company. This was in 1962. I think they Aronow won the Miami Nassau race in the 233. The 233 went on to win a number of offshore races while Aronow went on to found Cigarette, Magnum, Donzi and USA Racing. Aronow was murdered in 1987 by a rival boat builder.
The formula 233 is a race proven offshore hull that was manufactured under the guidance of Don Aronow starting in the 60's. Jim Wynn, a legendary designer, told me once that the 233 bred a lot of hulls and had influence on a lot more like Robalo and Intrepid."

"Many folks used the 233 as a starting point for their "new" designs, popping a mold off the old girl and slightly modifying the product.
They still make the 233 in Australia today"

http://www.edencraft.com.au/formula.html

The first 7 images are of the Formula design, you sure could mistake one of these for a Lancer!










Here's the Chris Craft version






It is becoming more evident that Chris Craft was "reacting" to fiberglass boat building rather than being a pioneer. They watched Hatteras build a glass crusier, and Don Aronow build the Formula and Thunderbird boats first, and then came up with their own "mass produced" XL-175 and 23' Lancer versions. Interesting that they hired Jim Wynne to do the design work.

In my recent telephone conversation with Chris Smith a few days ago, he mentioned he was with Jim Wynne when they water tested the first 36' (wood) Corvette, which was a V-drive boat with twin 427 motors, in the typical fashion Jim loved, deep V and lots of outdrive power. Chris said he was impressed with Jim because he had predicted everything they found during the test. However, on some of the Chris Craft adventures before getting the real world experience from Mr. Wynne, Chris Said they tested a few of their own deep v designs, and the boat would get going and then flop over on one side, frightening. They actually built a model that had a 28 degree deadrise, it was a "total failure" and would not get up on a plane. They tried twin rudders on it. They could not power it up onto a plane, it would not go in a straight line either.

They built something like 5 of these for simultaneous shows around the country, however at the time engineering was saying "wait, we have problems with this one". They were shown at shows anyway and sold something like 50. CC put trim tabs on them so they could be more controlled, but CC dropped the model rather quickly due to fears of litigation from dangerous handling. I don't know the model, but I'll do some research. It appears that the 24 degree deadrise on the Lancer, and the Wynne designed Forumula 233, is about as steep a cut as you can do while still getting the handling and planing needed. Chris Smith contends you just can't steer a deep v boat very well. He said on some of the testing, you "could see a coconut in the water up ahead and you just didn't know what side the boat was going to pass it by".

Chris Craft got the Wynne design, started in with their own high performance hull designs and whittled away at the competition with a vast dealer network, good warranty, reliable power that had been used in many other models, and most likely a resin and fiberglass construction that was pretty darn good by comparison with any other manufacturer of the day.

This is not to take anything away from the 233, I hear they're great boats (too).

Regards,

Paul









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Jerry
Jerry

February 12th, 2011, 10:38 am #39

Paul and All:
Unbelievably identical hulls. My eye saw no difference. I wonder then, how the interior strengtheners differed if at all. V-Berth, helm set ups don't make the boat. Very interesting Chapter in the lives of our 23's. By the way, I am back in on the big race, now that I am on Nadia's good side thanks to Glenn F. and his golden gift of gab!
Jerry - Sidewalk
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John Kloka
John Kloka

February 12th, 2011, 7:10 pm #40

Having been on both, and owned a Lancer... I can tell you the Formula has much more freeboard and more headroom in cuddy. On the other hand, the Lancer has fiberglass stringers, where the Formula has wood stringers. I bet Chris Craft built many more Lancers, but still, there sure are a lot more old Lancers around than Formulas...
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