427 marine repair manual

427 marine repair manual

Joined: July 17th, 2017, 8:06 pm

November 23rd, 2017, 6:31 pm #1

Getting ready to overhaul my 427 and was wondering Is there anywhere out there where a guy could buy an engine repair manual for these engines? Or can I just use a repair manual for a non marine 427? Needing the torque and other specs. Didn’t know if the tolerances are different for a marine engine?

Thanks,
Codi
Last edited by codi_derry on November 23rd, 2017, 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 15th, 2005, 8:09 pm

November 24th, 2017, 5:50 pm #2

How To Rebuild BIG-BLOCK FORD ENGINES by Steve Christ, is a VERY informative book, available in "paperback" and I have seen them on ebay for $15 or so. Every owner of the 427 should have a copy.

The 427 motors are certainly able to be rebuilt, they are basic, solid, and parts are available but..............and this is a big issue............beware of using a "Chevy Shop" or "Chevy-think" when working on this FE series. They have some issues that are ONLY found on the FE series. That's not to say a Chevy shop could not build one, but it is ALWAYS best to find a shop that is familiar with this series. I went into one machine shop here in Nashville, and the owner had several FE motors in various stages of rebuilding, and THAT is the sort of shop you should seek.

The 427 is a thinwall motor, not able to be bored out as far as others. Therefore if (if) you need a rebore and not just a deglaze and hone job, go for as little metal removal as possible. Many times the original hone marks are still visible in the cylinders due to the high quality iron used. Just about all pistons for the FE rebore these days are custom. Stick with forged, and stay away from anything made in China. Heads should not be milled because that throws off the way the intake fits, and would require it to be milled too.

There are a lot of mistakes people make when rebuilding these motors if they treat them like they are going into an automobile. Marine engines work hard all the time, there is no coasting like a car. The major mistakes are made by owners and machine shops that are enamored with the history of the 427 and want to add racing parts or "improve" the motor. For marine use in the non racing aspects, there is little or nothing that can be done to "improve" the industrial marine 427, except to improve on ignition and fuel delivery. On the latter, fuel delivery, the old style Carter AFB heat furnace chokes are not all that good, but the basic AFB is just fine. In my experience with the 50,000 volt DUI system, I don't need the chokes to start anyway so I have deactivated mine in order to assure I am not running with a motor that is partially choked.

All the BS you may hear about oiling issues, whatever, is from 'internet experts", so beware where you hear it and WHO you hear it from. Some of us have used aftermarket intakes. The basic Edelbrock Performer is a good choice for a cruiser motor, they build torque, have smaller internal plenums, and give good signal to the carb. For a runabout like my 23 Lancer, I chose the Performer RPM but I caution use of that without very careful plug reading to assure there is not a lean mix. The Edelbrock #1409 is a 600 cfm carb, while the Carter was (is) 625. Both are just fine, don't make the mistake of going bigger.

I would stay the heck away from the hot rod shops, and stick with the industrial machine shop guys. The best thing that can be done to an industrial marine 427 is to rebuild it in the stock form. That way we avoid the catastropic destruction we've seen with some of our members like the 42 Commander, PARAMOUNT, that went through two (2) expensive rebuilds of the 427 before a total repower. That example was the result of adding power, which looked just great on the dyno but when hooked up to pushing a cruiser just generated too much heat internally and literally melted pistons.

If and when you get into your 427 let me know, I have a lot of info I can share on this series, and since I own four of them I have quite a bit of hands-on time with them. With your experience as a mechanic you should be in fine shape, especially if you are doing the work yourself, and watching over the project as something you will continue to own !! A 427 in a 23 Commander is quite a package, lots and lots of torque, real easy cruise, amazing, similar to Freeman's 427 1970 Lancer Premier that I had the pleasure of driving.

Here is a photo of your boat, from our archives.


Also, I am interested in what cylinder heads you have. I suspect you have the C7AE-A heads and not the C7JE like the early motors had. There is an intake port size difference there, power ratings remained the same, but the aftermarket RPM intake, for instance, works better for the early series because it matches up with the bigger ports. The C7AE-A was referred to as the "acceleration port" design, smaller passages, faster flow, and it was just fine for what the motor was intended to do, and that was build lots of torque. For racing obviously there is much higher rpm and much higher flow issues to contend with, and in our boats the way we run them hot rodding a 427 can get us into trouble especially if the wrong compression is used, wrong carb, wrong pistons, etc., as in the PARAMOUNT example cited.

Here is a link to the complete parts manual as a reference.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1158113925

Regarding your question about torque numbers, yes, the basic torque numbers for cylinder heads, intake, etc., etc., stands for the industrial motors just like it does for the automotive versions. The Steve Christ book has much of that info, I strongly recommend you pick up a copy, lots of good stuff in there, some may be questionable, but most FE guys think highly of it as a good guide.


Regards,
Paul



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Paul
Paul

November 25th, 2017, 2:52 pm #3

You are probably familiar, these require their own torque specs

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/Make.php?_Mak ... odelID=552

Regards,
Paul
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Joined: July 17th, 2017, 8:06 pm

November 25th, 2017, 10:33 pm #4

How To Rebuild BIG-BLOCK FORD ENGINES by Steve Christ, is a VERY informative book, available in "paperback" and I have seen them on ebay for $15 or so. Every owner of the 427 should have a copy.

The 427 motors are certainly able to be rebuilt, they are basic, solid, and parts are available but..............and this is a big issue............beware of using a "Chevy Shop" or "Chevy-think" when working on this FE series. They have some issues that are ONLY found on the FE series. That's not to say a Chevy shop could not build one, but it is ALWAYS best to find a shop that is familiar with this series. I went into one machine shop here in Nashville, and the owner had several FE motors in various stages of rebuilding, and THAT is the sort of shop you should seek.

The 427 is a thinwall motor, not able to be bored out as far as others. Therefore if (if) you need a rebore and not just a deglaze and hone job, go for as little metal removal as possible. Many times the original hone marks are still visible in the cylinders due to the high quality iron used. Just about all pistons for the FE rebore these days are custom. Stick with forged, and stay away from anything made in China. Heads should not be milled because that throws off the way the intake fits, and would require it to be milled too.

There are a lot of mistakes people make when rebuilding these motors if they treat them like they are going into an automobile. Marine engines work hard all the time, there is no coasting like a car. The major mistakes are made by owners and machine shops that are enamored with the history of the 427 and want to add racing parts or "improve" the motor. For marine use in the non racing aspects, there is little or nothing that can be done to "improve" the industrial marine 427, except to improve on ignition and fuel delivery. On the latter, fuel delivery, the old style Carter AFB heat furnace chokes are not all that good, but the basic AFB is just fine. In my experience with the 50,000 volt DUI system, I don't need the chokes to start anyway so I have deactivated mine in order to assure I am not running with a motor that is partially choked.

All the BS you may hear about oiling issues, whatever, is from 'internet experts", so beware where you hear it and WHO you hear it from. Some of us have used aftermarket intakes. The basic Edelbrock Performer is a good choice for a cruiser motor, they build torque, have smaller internal plenums, and give good signal to the carb. For a runabout like my 23 Lancer, I chose the Performer RPM but I caution use of that without very careful plug reading to assure there is not a lean mix. The Edelbrock #1409 is a 600 cfm carb, while the Carter was (is) 625. Both are just fine, don't make the mistake of going bigger.

I would stay the heck away from the hot rod shops, and stick with the industrial machine shop guys. The best thing that can be done to an industrial marine 427 is to rebuild it in the stock form. That way we avoid the catastropic destruction we've seen with some of our members like the 42 Commander, PARAMOUNT, that went through two (2) expensive rebuilds of the 427 before a total repower. That example was the result of adding power, which looked just great on the dyno but when hooked up to pushing a cruiser just generated too much heat internally and literally melted pistons.

If and when you get into your 427 let me know, I have a lot of info I can share on this series, and since I own four of them I have quite a bit of hands-on time with them. With your experience as a mechanic you should be in fine shape, especially if you are doing the work yourself, and watching over the project as something you will continue to own !! A 427 in a 23 Commander is quite a package, lots and lots of torque, real easy cruise, amazing, similar to Freeman's 427 1970 Lancer Premier that I had the pleasure of driving.

Here is a photo of your boat, from our archives.


Also, I am interested in what cylinder heads you have. I suspect you have the C7AE-A heads and not the C7JE like the early motors had. There is an intake port size difference there, power ratings remained the same, but the aftermarket RPM intake, for instance, works better for the early series because it matches up with the bigger ports. The C7AE-A was referred to as the "acceleration port" design, smaller passages, faster flow, and it was just fine for what the motor was intended to do, and that was build lots of torque. For racing obviously there is much higher rpm and much higher flow issues to contend with, and in our boats the way we run them hot rodding a 427 can get us into trouble especially if the wrong compression is used, wrong carb, wrong pistons, etc., as in the PARAMOUNT example cited.

Here is a link to the complete parts manual as a reference.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1158113925

Regarding your question about torque numbers, yes, the basic torque numbers for cylinder heads, intake, etc., etc., stands for the industrial motors just like it does for the automotive versions. The Steve Christ book has much of that info, I strongly recommend you pick up a copy, lots of good stuff in there, some may be questionable, but most FE guys think highly of it as a good guide.


Regards,
Paul


Thank you very much! Going to get one of those books ordered for sure! I plan on working on it this winter now that I have some free time, so I’m sure ill be getting in touch with you if I have any questions. All the mechine work has been done to it already and it wasn’t bored out just honed out. The motor is all stock except for the intake and carb. Don’t remember what intake we used and carb is a 650 so not much more than stock. I’ll find out what heads are on it when I get back home. The motor only has about 10 hrs on a fresh rebuild the only reason I have it tore down is because the adjusting screw is are up from the push rod and the head has two broke springs and I’m just making sure there are no metal filings run through the engine.

Thanks,
Codi
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Joined: July 17th, 2017, 8:06 pm

March 20th, 2018, 12:35 am #5

The heads on my motor are the c7je. And the intake we are using is an Edelbrock performer RPM. With a new Edelbrock 650 cfm carb. I Have the engine down to the bare block now. Looks like all I’m gunna need are new bearings and gaskets. The crank and cam look Excellent! On the heads tho I’m going to have to replace the broken valve springs not sure what ones to buy tho? What are the stock ones and should I replace them all? I’m also putting new lifters and push rods in since there has been metal ran through the engine.
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Paul
Paul

March 20th, 2018, 1:33 am #6

Hey good for you, those are pretty darn good heads. Congratulations also for getting the motor torn down and seeing things are looking good.

As far as the springs are concerned, I don't know right off the top of my head but they would most likely be stock automotive 352 and 390 springs, but those would be from hydraulic motors so we better check on that. There need not be a lot of spring pressure because the cam is not much of a popper and the lift is not that high, and the rpm range is not all that much either. If you are in there and the piece is on the bench, I would go ahead and replace all the springs. It would appear to be cheap insurance.

The marine Edelbrock carb is a 600, and the original Carter was 625 cfm. If you have a 650 better check to see if it's marine, which is a big safety feature on a motor that could drip gas somewhere other than a parking lot. The Edelbrock Performer RPM will work great on your motor, especially since it's not trying to push a cruiser. As always, when the motor is done and properly broken in, be real sure to read the plugs after a SHORT RUN to be sure you're not overheating things and getting ready to melt pistons due to a lean mix with that combination.

Regards,
Paul
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Joined: July 17th, 2017, 8:06 pm

March 20th, 2018, 2:44 am #7

Thanks Paul, I checked out that carb and it’s a marine carb but it’s 750 cfm not 650.
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Paul
Paul

March 20th, 2018, 3:00 am #8

.........actually a lot bigger. At our rpm band, compression, and cam, the motor can’t really benefit all that much from the excess cfm capability.. You may get a couple extra horses out of that carb st 4000 rpm but the vacuum signal to the carb will be less than a 600 and I’ve heard it can affect drivability. I actually had a bran new 750 that I sold for a loss in order to get a 600 for my killer 427 Lancer. However, if you have it you may as well try it.

Regards,
Paul


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Joined: December 5th, 2010, 10:38 pm

April 5th, 2018, 3:10 pm #9

We had been chasing a problem with our engine faltering at WOT for a couple years, (one of many projects, so not constantly chasing). I put a brand new Edelbrock 750 on our 427 in place of the Edelbrock 600 that was on it and did not notice a difference with how it ran. It still faltered. I found a brand new Holley 650 square bore and now it runs great. We have an Edelbrock 600 on a 312 and it runs very well. Not sure why we couldn't get one to work on our 427. But, the problem has been solved.
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Paul
Paul

April 5th, 2018, 8:06 pm #10

The original Carter AFB on the Chris-Craft 427 was a 625 cfm unit, and the Edelbrock 600 cfm marine #1409 is a viable replacement. I've done the calculations many times and the compression ratio of a marine 427 along with our rpm range, which is generally in the 4,000 range and maybe 4,500 for a runabout just won't warrant anything as big as a 750.

Glad you got the issue resolved, but in the past I had issues with cross sparking with the crappy ignition systems they installed on boats "back then" which may have been a result of a bad ground, or perhaps moisture coming up from the oil sump into the body of the distributor, or whatever, but the issue was solved with a DUI HEI-style marine igniton. It's amazing what 50,000 volts will do for you. As I recall you already dealt with that with an aftermarket ignition system.

Regards,
Paul
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