427 Has No Fire at coil ... Help

427 Has No Fire at coil ... Help

Joined: March 10th, 2006, 8:31 pm

March 10th, 2006, 9:08 pm #1

1968 Ford, 427, 300 hp. (chris craft) engine. I just replaced the old point system with the Pertonix Ignitor II system and new coil. I am not getting fire at the coil. Installation manual suggested a jumper between the battery positive and the igniter II red wire (bypass coil and regulator) to see if there was a low voltager. Did that, and the engine still would not start (cranks only). Need some diognosic advice here.

Thanks

Just gets funner all the time
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Mark Weller
Mark Weller

March 10th, 2006, 10:07 pm #2

Check the wiring to the coil make sure it is correct. Test the coil to make sure it is good. I assume the motor ran before you installed the Pertronix system? Test the voltage at the coil make sure you are getting the correct voltage.
You did put the trigger sleeve over the distributor shaft didn't you. Just checking, sometimes
we all forget the simple stuff.
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EH
EH

March 10th, 2006, 10:10 pm #3

Check the link showing the coil wiring diagram too! I found this thread to be very helpful.

Ernie

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1131313926
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Paul
Paul

March 10th, 2006, 10:30 pm #4

1968 Ford, 427, 300 hp. (chris craft) engine. I just replaced the old point system with the Pertonix Ignitor II system and new coil. I am not getting fire at the coil. Installation manual suggested a jumper between the battery positive and the igniter II red wire (bypass coil and regulator) to see if there was a low voltager. Did that, and the engine still would not start (cranks only). Need some diognosic advice here.

Thanks

Just gets funner all the time
The motor is supposed to be timed to the mark on the flywheel at 500 RPM while under load, according to the manual I have, but this is tricky and dangerous! I've tried numerous other ways to time the motors, including the old "by ear" method, but nothing beats the timing light so far!

I would have said to check the ignition switch too, but the motor ran previously, so that's most likely not the problem unless a gremlin just jumped into the picture, which happens simultaneously from time to time.

Also, since you pulled out all the old points, etc., the motor will probably be grossly out of time. Need to put a timing light on the motor. Ernie beat me to the link, so just look closely, because you've apparently missed something!

Good luck, follow those manufacturers directions! Let us know when the motors light off!

Regrds, Paul





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Joined: March 10th, 2006, 8:31 pm

March 10th, 2006, 10:54 pm #5

Check the wiring to the coil make sure it is correct. Test the coil to make sure it is good. I assume the motor ran before you installed the Pertronix system? Test the voltage at the coil make sure you are getting the correct voltage.
You did put the trigger sleeve over the distributor shaft didn't you. Just checking, sometimes
we all forget the simple stuff.
Mark, Yes the motor was runing before the new system. Wiring to the coil is as it was to the old coil, wire from the voltage regulator to the + side of the coil. If I eliminate the voltage regulator from the system (12v direct + side of coil) I can get fire at the plugs.
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Joined: March 10th, 2006, 8:31 pm

March 10th, 2006, 11:02 pm #6

Check the link showing the coil wiring diagram too! I found this thread to be very helpful.

Ernie

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1131313926
Thanks for the link EH, looks as though I have installed the system correctly. The link showing the coil wiring diagram shows a resiter in the system that was not on the my old system. So, I have to assume this is not a requirement. I wired new electronic per the intallment instructions that came with the unit.
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Joined: March 10th, 2006, 8:31 pm

March 10th, 2006, 11:22 pm #7

The motor is supposed to be timed to the mark on the flywheel at 500 RPM while under load, according to the manual I have, but this is tricky and dangerous! I've tried numerous other ways to time the motors, including the old "by ear" method, but nothing beats the timing light so far!

I would have said to check the ignition switch too, but the motor ran previously, so that's most likely not the problem unless a gremlin just jumped into the picture, which happens simultaneously from time to time.

Also, since you pulled out all the old points, etc., the motor will probably be grossly out of time. Need to put a timing light on the motor. Ernie beat me to the link, so just look closely, because you've apparently missed something!

Good luck, follow those manufacturers directions! Let us know when the motors light off!

Regrds, Paul




Thanks, I will keep an eye on the timing.
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Paul
Paul

March 10th, 2006, 11:49 pm #8

Thanks for the link EH, looks as though I have installed the system correctly. The link showing the coil wiring diagram shows a resiter in the system that was not on the my old system. So, I have to assume this is not a requirement. I wired new electronic per the intallment instructions that came with the unit.
...I am curious why your boat does not have a resistor. What year is the boat, just out of curiosity?

It may well be two things happened: One....a previous owner took the resistor off and you may have just followed his path once you got the boat. Two....it may be the coil has an internal resistor.

In any case, you should check that out, because I believe without the resistor in place, the coil can get VERY hot (and fail prematurely).

My boat is a 1966 model. I can photograph any part of the boat and post it for you if you need assistance. Just let me know and give me a day or so to get the pics. I should be on board this week-end.

Regards, Paul
1966 38 Commander Express
Original 427 power
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Joined: November 8th, 2005, 10:54 pm

March 10th, 2006, 11:54 pm #9

Mark, Yes the motor was runing before the new system. Wiring to the coil is as it was to the old coil, wire from the voltage regulator to the + side of the coil. If I eliminate the voltage regulator from the system (12v direct + side of coil) I can get fire at the plugs.
That is strange now bear with me here it may seem weird but you only removed the wire coming from the points to the distributor? Then hooked up the 2 wires coming from the ignitor unit to the coil Red to + Black to - ? I don't know the 427 ignition system that well but isnt there a ballast resistor in the system? If there is you may need to get rid of it you said you put on a coil is it a Pertronix coil? if it is did you get the right coil they make 1.5 ohm 3 ohm and .6 ohm coils. And depending which one you got you may need to remove the ballast resistor or add one if you dont have one. Do the following series of tests.


To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. CautionÂ… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time.
Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. Turn the ignition switch off. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts.
The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Adjust your meter to the lowest ? ohm scale. If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle. Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Write your measurement down.
Now the maximum system amperage can be determined, divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. This will give you the system current or amperage.
Four cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Six and eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8.5 amps. If the total amperage in your system is higher than the amount recommended for your application, you should install a ballast resistor.
Example Voltage 12
Resistance 1.5
12 / 1.5 = 8
Total amperage 8

that will tell you the answer to your problem I have a feeling. but I could be wrong!

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Joined: March 10th, 2006, 8:31 pm

March 11th, 2006, 12:04 am #10

...I am curious why your boat does not have a resistor. What year is the boat, just out of curiosity?

It may well be two things happened: One....a previous owner took the resistor off and you may have just followed his path once you got the boat. Two....it may be the coil has an internal resistor.

In any case, you should check that out, because I believe without the resistor in place, the coil can get VERY hot (and fail prematurely).

My boat is a 1966 model. I can photograph any part of the boat and post it for you if you need assistance. Just let me know and give me a day or so to get the pics. I should be on board this week-end.

Regards, Paul
1966 38 Commander Express
Original 427 power
This engine (port), was re-built in 1991 without the resister in place and has been runing quit well. The Stbd. engine is still the original 1968 and currently has the resister in the loop. Don't really understand the resister function, but the Port engine has been running very well since I have owned it over the last 5 years. Just wanted to change to electornic. The Stbd. is still points, and will be converting when I get this problem straightened out.
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