27 Commander with 327F speed and prop questions

27 Commander with 327F speed and prop questions

Joined: April 10th, 2011, 5:50 am

April 23rd, 2012, 11:22 pm #1




Hello all...It's Time to Haul!
I am hauling my little 27 Commander and need some help. I have scoured the files to find the original colors assigned to my little gal and the message is mixed. This photo is from last April when I hauled for the survey....Hope that you can see the photo. From what I can tell the bottom was either red or copper and maybe that blue bootstripe was originally red/copper all the way up? It looks like white fiberglass underneath and I don't see a trace of black. Not to say that the original owner didn't sand it off...

You can see where the paint from the bootstripe has chipped away and it looks like there was either copper or red underneath?

Any feedback is appreciated. I already bought paint (Trinidad SR in Red) but now wonder if I should revert to what many seem to think original: Black bootstripe with copper on the bottom. Or...maybe just copper without a bootstripe.

Lastly I am going to read with interest (and forward to my mechanic who will actually understand) the reams of information about the performance of the 27 with the original 327 engine. I just had work done to the engine and can get a little more juice from it this year than last. Seems like it tops off at 17 knots and about 3900 rpms. The rest of the WOT, pitch, transmission, ratio language is still lost on me...but I am learning. I want to keep the original engine, and I am a bit of a putter-arounder, so speed is not really important beyond just wondering why it won't go faster and why it won't plane.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Missy Watts
27'Commander "Almalu"
FXA27-2026-H










edit comment: title added
Last edited by FEfinaticP on April 24th, 2012, 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Paul
Paul

April 24th, 2012, 2:18 pm #2

Hi Missy,

Your serial number indicates it's a 1966 but model year did not appear to change the copper-bronze bottom and black waterline color that CC apparently installed at the plant. If I already had the paint I would consider using it unless you are able to exchange it, as the copper-bronze really makes a boat look snappy. It is becoming harder to find, and when you pick up a gal of that stuff realize you are actually picking up an ingot of copper that is mixed into the paint, very heavy gal of paint! Here is what Ben did, looks pretty good to me with the red.




The 327F and 327Q were both offered in this boat depending on model year but in 1966 I would suspect it is the 327F with 210 horsepower. This particular motor is one of THE best if not THE best small block marine motor CC ever used, due to the fact that it is basically a Corvette motor detuned way down to 8.0:1 compression ratio and they will last forever and run very nicely with less than premium fuel. Standard prop for your boat with 327F power is 15X15 RH on 1-1/4" shaft. Is that the prop you are running?

I saw your note: "I just had work done to the engine and can get a little more juice from it this year than last. Seems like it tops off at 17 knots and about 3900 rpms." Before I can comment with substance, please advise on what was done to the motor as it is an essential part of the commentary equation.

When you note the 17 knot speed, is that with one or two people aboard, or with more? Weight in a boat this size really makes a difference. Fully loaded with people out for a cruise will not allow the boat to reach top speed, but that 17 knot speed at 3900 rpm is a bit of a puzzle right now.

Three things please: Work done on the motor, prop confirmation, conditions when speed was noted (weight load).



Ben has reported his boat will plane around 2500 rpm. In additionm, here are some speed ratings from his on the water experience with the same hull and same motor.


http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... nd+2500rpm...

Your boat should be performing somewhere pretty close to this with one person aboard.

http://www.youtube.com/v/3nJDuxaJQoU





regards,

Paul






Last edited by FEfinaticP on April 24th, 2012, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Missy Watts
Missy Watts

April 24th, 2012, 6:20 pm #3

Hi Paul:
Thanks for responding (as always!). I think I will search out the copper paint and go with the original black and copper scheme. I don't see any evidence of that scheme on my boat, but no reason I can't put it there! I assume there is no barrier coat and I don't know if I need one. I will look through the forum for discussion on that too.

Regarding the engine, yes it is a 327F with little over 560 original hours on it. My mechanic went through everything on the engine, changed all hoses, clamps, performed regular tune up, smoked the engine, and re-checked compression several times. I don't have a list to refer to to say everything that was done, but no valve job or anything HUGE.

He does not believe it is a prop issue, but a carbuerator/fuel delivery issue. I am sorry that I don't have the knowledge or vocabulary about the engine that I need to speak intelligently about it. I have forwarded several performance charts and threads to said mechanic for him to have a look. He owns a Chris Craft (a big one) and I am comfortable that he knows what he is doing, but I thought messages in the forum could give him a window into something he may be missing....such as the fact that other members DO get a lot more performance out of their old Commanders. My survey does not state prop size and says that the "stamp is obscured" but I thought I remembered him saying it was a 14" prop. I will check it out when I haul.

The last time I was out (Saturday) I had two adults (including myself) and one teenager onboard...so not a heavy load. I will be out later this week and will double check the rpms at the speed of 17 knots (throttle all the way down), but if anything it was higher. That is just all I can get out of her. Last year I would not go over about 2700 rpms because I was not sure of the health of the engine before having Ron check it all out.
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Paul
Paul

April 24th, 2012, 7:52 pm #4

Hi Missy,

As I recall (tough to keep track of all the Commanders) you are in fresh water (near Atlanta?) so no need for a barrier coat in my opinion. I would just sand any obvious blemishes off and apply a couple layers of top coating. Some people like to take it all the way down to gelcoat but quite honestly, that old paint is actually doing something to protect the hull, so unless there is some obvious reason to remove all of it, I would leave some of it there to continue to protect the hull. This is basically how we have maintained our boats in fresh water. There is really no need to go down to the gelcoat unless you are wanting the ultra smooth bottom for racing purposes.

I think Ben would agree with me that if you are running 3900 rpm and getting 17 knots, you may well be running a 14" propeller when a 15X15 is specified for that boat. This would be especially true if you were able to easily exceed 3900 rpm.

Your mechanic should check the basic function of the carb, and when in doubt pop on a rebuild kit. These are not expensive, I think forty bucks or so, and the carb is not all that difficult to take apart.

Before removing the carb (and this may sound like work but there are 4 bolts, one fuel line, and a cotter pin holding the throttle assembly that are all that holds the carb on the boat, and they can be removed in 5 tio 10 minutes) I would check three things:

1. Be sure the throttle linkage is allowing the carb throttle body to fully open. It may look like your helm station has the throttle all the way forward but the adjustment at the carb may only be allowing it to open 75%. The choke may be partially engaged too, which makes it run rich and would be down on power, smelling like fuel.

2. Be sure that distributor is advancing!! Assuming the boat is timed properly to begin with, be aware that you can still set the timing perfectly at idle, but if the distributor is rusted up internally or one of the springs is bad, then it will not advance and this just makes the motor have far less power than it otherwise would. You can check the distributor advance with a timing light. When you rev the motor if the distributor is advancing properly then you will see the change happen with the strobe light, and it will be apparant.

3. Fuel delivery (pump and filters) should be checked.




The carbs are always a crap shoot, and sometimes just crap. My 1966 327F carb was crap (on my 20' fiberglass sea skiff project) and the motor had not been run in 6 or so years and the carb was so corroded I just tossed it and bought a new Edelbrock #1409 and the boat runs great with it.

One thing we always overlook is the fact that some marinas are pumping ethanol in the gas now. In Tennessee we thankfully don't have that problem (yet) but ethanol will lower the power of the boat a bit. Because the 327F has such low compression in the first place it should still run well either way.

This gives your mechanic a checklist:

Verify the propeller.
Carb
Distributor
Filters/pump

It is tough to diagnose a motor over the internet, keep us posted, we'll help you any way we can. The boat should be getting up on a plane around 2500 to 2600, which means you look over the transom and you can see the bottom edge of the hull making a clean break with the water stream under the boat. From there you should be able to run the rpm up to 4000 if the motor is working properly and if you have the right prop. Personally I think a 327F would run forever at 2600 rpm so there should be no hesitation running at that speed. In addition, it should be equally happy at 3000 all day long, with occasional faster running being just fine too.

regards,

Paul
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Joined: October 17th, 2008, 6:09 am

April 25th, 2012, 12:08 am #5

Missy,
If I read correctly that your 327 is spinning up to 3900 WOT, and one believes the tachometer is correct, then you've got a motor that's running at or darn close to max RPM. I'm pretty sure there's a CC engine manual out there that will say something to the effect do not exceed 3600 RPM for extended periods of time.

I'd focus on the prop you're running.

From the factory - that boat was advertised to provide 32MPH with the single 327. Twin 283's would run it up to 38MPH.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... ice+one%29






Thanks!

Kevin Bray
'06 CC Launch 22
FXA-31-4049
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BMurray
BMurray

April 25th, 2012, 2:06 am #6

Kevin,

You are correct, top cruising speed of 3600 RPM is recommended. Mark Weller has my engine guide for all three types on his website. Though I can't seem to find the link right now. It is on page 3 of the manual. If need be I can send it.

Bill
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Mark Weller
Mark Weller

April 25th, 2012, 2:20 am #7

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Paul
Paul

April 25th, 2012, 1:20 pm #8

I have already used the info on my own 327F motor. Good stuff Mark, many people will benefit from this info.






------------also---------------( Links Below )----------------------



I like to cross reference things here in the forum, becuase it helps people later on who may be researching things so here are a couple postings everyone has seen currently, but may be of help in a couple weeks or so when this thread is cold and hidden back in the files somewhere.


More on 27 ownership and speed
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... wner+q%27s

Propeller charts and some great in-the-water actual testing data from Ben, using his 327F powered 27.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... +Commander

regards,

Paul
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Missy Watts
Missy Watts

April 26th, 2012, 3:02 am #9

This is a great resource...thanks to all who contributed. I will check the prop when I pull it out and I will share Paul's suggestions checklist with my mechanic. I know he kind of shakes his head and grumbles under his breath whenever I say, "well the Commander guys say....."

I found and ordered bronze bottom paint, now just need the paint for the black bootstripe.
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