1965 38' CCSF Photos FFA-38-0022-H

1965 38' CCSF Photos FFA-38-0022-H

Joined: August 15th, 2009, 1:09 am

August 17th, 2009, 3:06 pm #1

Check them out and give me your honest feedback.  Does this look like a restoration project that would be for the good.........can anyone give me a ballpark number on cost.  I can do a lot of the work myself but would need electrical help.  I have restored cars and motorcycles but would need help in certain areas.  I feel that the purchase price is right.  I feel like it would take a good year to do it right with what i am envisioning in respect to what i want it to look like.














Quote
Like
Share

Eric Jensen
Eric Jensen

August 17th, 2009, 4:03 pm #2


NO WAY - NO HOW

Let someone else do that.

Eric
Quote
Share

Joined: June 28th, 2007, 3:24 pm

August 17th, 2009, 4:07 pm #3

Check them out and give me your honest feedback.  Does this look like a restoration project that would be for the good.........can anyone give me a ballpark number on cost.  I can do a lot of the work myself but would need electrical help.  I have restored cars and motorcycles but would need help in certain areas.  I feel that the purchase price is right.  I feel like it would take a good year to do it right with what i am envisioning in respect to what i want it to look like.














It's really hard to put a number on something like this. The boat appears to need a lot of attention, in a lot of areas; wood, wiring, power train, finish, etc. But it is a Commander, so worthy of the attention. Only you know what your budget/abilities are (everything you can do yourself drastically effects the bottom line).

One big question is where you're going to be working on it. If you own a barn or some other place to get it inside where you can tear her down and can work at your own pace without incurring storage charges, why not.

Looking at her, I'd say acquisition cost would have to be no more than 15%~20% of the total cost of the project to make it worthwhile to me.

Best of luck,


Keyth

FXA31-3055-H
FXA27-2051-T
Quote
Like
Share

Paul
Paul

August 17th, 2009, 4:16 pm #4

Check them out and give me your honest feedback.  Does this look like a restoration project that would be for the good.........can anyone give me a ballpark number on cost.  I can do a lot of the work myself but would need electrical help.  I have restored cars and motorcycles but would need help in certain areas.  I feel that the purchase price is right.  I feel like it would take a good year to do it right with what i am envisioning in respect to what i want it to look like.














Ohhhh Boy, this one has me with mixed emotions.

Okay, I think SOMEBODY will eventually restore this boat, because the hull is worthy. Warren Pateman got one that was 10x worse shape than this one, and brought it back to being the pride of Australia, BAMBI. He stripped his down to the bare glass inside and out, totally. http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1136636730


Dave Varnadore brought one back that had sunk at the docks.
Curt Hill restored one that sat at the docks for 20 years.
Jerry Namken is doing one now that went through the repower and general total refurbish.
Don Hancock restored one to "like new" condition, and virtually everything had to be replaced.
Mike Burdette restored a 31' Sports Express to "like new" condition.

It can be done.

This one is in the water.
I wonder when it ran under it's own power for the last time?
Those engines look rusty, and are rusty, but I have one in my 20' Sea Skiff that "LOOKED" like it would never run again and it's doing fine, don't let surface rust fool you, but careful checking would be in order for sure.

Yes indeed, it would take every bit of a year.
It can be done.
The hull may need to be patched where scratched and painted, as Warren did.

If you are looking for a super low price and willing to go through the entire boat with essentially a total upgrade, this one may work for you, but your time, skills and cash reserves will tell. If you can find one for $10,000 in running condition reasonably good cosmetics, I would think it would be a deal, because you can dump a LOT of money into one this size. Much of the cosmetic work can be done by a craftsman. If those big motors run with good oil pressure and compression, perhaps. If not, then you are also looking at a repower and again, don Hancock, Jerry Namken and Dave Varnadore all got nice 454 take-out motors that made a nice replacement for reasonable dollars.





For me, personally, knowing what it took to bring one back on a long term basis, working on little things here and there, and some a little bigger than little, I would pass on this one and try to buy one in better shape. However, if you have the place to work on it, and have the time to go through it, pull everything out that needs to be disgarded, perhaps rebuild those 534s or replace them, maybe get real lucky and they run, go through a repower perhaps, refinish everything, then you could pull off a deal like Don, Jerry, Warren, and Dave did.

Had I not seen projects like theirs, and have seen first hand how a guy can go through one totally, even replacing tanks, etc., I would say absolutely, run from this one. However, the fact remains, they did it.


As an example..................
Here's what Dave started with, after it was re-floated.




Here's what he has now








Another example, here's what Warren started with............








Here's the end result, with a LOT of cash infused into this project, along with a pair of
Iveco turbocharged diesels.







More photos of Warren's restoration can be found here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1150922798





So now you can see why I pause.
For me personally, it would be a "no".
For people like Warren, Don, Jerry, and Dave, it was a "yes", because they had a different situation than I did. There are others too, who have not been named, doing equally big projects. They had a yard where they could do the work or have some done, had the time, logistics, cash, etc. If you have the place, skills to do some or much of the work yourself, and some liquidity to play in this arena, then it obviously "can" be done. For most of us, however, this is a project we would have to pass on, in favor of digging deeper into our pockets and trying to find something with a better starting vantage point.

I neither want to encourage you, nor discourage you, due to my personal limitations, opinion, etc. As you can see, there are people out there with considerably more skill than I have, who have done it. Think long and hard about the yard where the work will be done, your time, schedule, skill level, etc., to see if this is something you can pull off and still have fun. Hope this has given you some degree of perspective.

Regards,

Paul













Quote
Share

Joined: October 17th, 2008, 6:09 am

August 17th, 2009, 4:21 pm #5

Check them out and give me your honest feedback.  Does this look like a restoration project that would be for the good.........can anyone give me a ballpark number on cost.  I can do a lot of the work myself but would need electrical help.  I have restored cars and motorcycles but would need help in certain areas.  I feel that the purchase price is right.  I feel like it would take a good year to do it right with what i am envisioning in respect to what i want it to look like.














My .02 worth.

Before getting bit by the boatitis bug and buying my own 'new old' Commander, I used to buy and restore W126 series Mercedes Benz cars. I had alot of fun doing that and miss a few of those I fixed up.

However, I suspect that much like some of the MB's I restored, that even if the seller is going to give you the boat and pay to have it moved to your location, it will end up being "the most expensive boat you'll ever own".

There are some great Commanders available in this buyer's market, and from what I've already learned, even the nice ones will keep a DIY-er busy with necessary maintenance repairs and upkeep.



Thanks!

Kevin Bray
'06 CC Launch 22
FXA-31-4049
Quote
Like
Share

Paul
Paul

August 17th, 2009, 5:41 pm #6

Very good observations. With regards to Warren Pateman's project, he was preoccupied with classic lines, fully intended from the get-go to spend a couple hundred thousand dollars doing a total rebuild on "something", and he chose a worthy Commander hull to do it.

That was a case similar to having a guy come into a nice neighborhood, buy an older home just to get the lot, and rebuild from there. Not what I would do, I don't have the cash to pull something like that off.

It depends on how resourcefull you are. Jerry Namken, for instance, gives me the impression he's very savvy about deals, hunts good ones down, snagged a couple nice 454 V8s with transmissions for a good deal, etc., but will still have a bundle of cash to do what he's done. There are intersecting curves here; how much money would it take to bring a basket case up to the same standard as a daily user purchased at the bottom dollar of the market? If you can buy one for $10,000, you're better off with the daily user. What about $15,000, still better off? What about $20,000, etc.

If you start at zero, assuming EVERYTHING has to be replaced, then start adding the cost of engines, you get to $10,000 fast any way you go. Then look at interior finishes, equipment (got radar? does it work? got radios, do they work, etc.)

The safest thing is to get one that is presently being used, all systems are working, engines can be evaluated, etc. Even if engines need to be rebuilt, it's still a better starting point than having to correct the sins of a previous electrician, and start from scratch. In the instance of Warren Pateman, he bought the boat knowing he was going to strip it down and sink big bucks into it, as an alternative for spending the same thing or more on a new one. I dare say, had he gone onto the market and purchased a new diesel powered 38 that would do what his 38 would do, he would have paid considerably more for the new one, and he had the fun of spending $300,000 or more the way he wanted to.

Regards,

Paul

Quote
Share

Joined: December 20th, 2007, 5:01 pm

August 17th, 2009, 6:28 pm #7

Check them out and give me your honest feedback.  Does this look like a restoration project that would be for the good.........can anyone give me a ballpark number on cost.  I can do a lot of the work myself but would need electrical help.  I have restored cars and motorcycles but would need help in certain areas.  I feel that the purchase price is right.  I feel like it would take a good year to do it right with what i am envisioning in respect to what i want it to look like.














Rick, Paul, and All:
Here is the deal. The hull is rock solid so what would it cost you to get a hull and deck of equal QUALITY? A lot of dough. When you get a project boat, that is all you can really expect because you cannot see all the rest of the parts on the boat. How much of a ball park figure to fix it up? That is a trick question. You will never quit fixing it up until you run out of money. Then you will have to go with whatever you have acomplished.

These boats have to have engines. They will end up costing you minimally a sum of at least $7,000 each unless you are your own mechanic. However, have you ever put a 454 into a CC 38 footer? No? Then you will have to hire someone and that is where the rest of the money comes in. How much does a good mechanic cost? $90 an hour. Gas tanks, batteries, electrical, safety, stringer rebuilds, etc. will all cost.

I think you can easily run up 20 to 30 thousand dollars fixing up one of these old boats. They are not cost effective. They turn out to be labors of love and you will spend way more than they are worth. You will have to use them a lot to make them pay off. Basically you have to use them as a second home, a piece of recreational investment or such. Your spouse MUST be entirely in agreement with you and willing to help.

Next, the boat has several systems. ALL OF THESE have to updated. You may get by for a couple of months, but eventually you will have to pay the piper and let us hope it is not during a big storm. The electics and electronics cost is huge and time consuming. The technology is always getting better. As soon as you put a chart plotter on, it is obsolete. Here you go again with the trick question, how much do the electrics cost? You will always be paying for improvements.

Water system, sewage system, lighting system, navagation system, showers, sprayers, and washdown systems, fiberglass repair, wood restoration, metal restoration, and etc. A dedicated crew with a blank check could not restore a boat like this in 1 year. You can't either.

So what is the answer and why did I do it? I like the fixing up part of it and I like the boat. I am a dreamer. I honestly believe I can turn my old boat into something my wife will enjoy. Time is on my side and I do not have any deadlines except death itself. To make things simple for you, buy the boat and put in the minimum you can to get the boat running safely and prudently. Then go out and start using it. This will be $15,000 to $20,000. You do not need a water system, a shower, electircal lights, genset, refrigerator etc. Live minimally as if you were camping. Then as you enjoy the boat, add a few things to make your life easier over time. You really have to like working on a boat to sustain the effort it will take. Maybe you have it.

You have to like the getting more than the having. It this rings loudly in your ear, get a smaller affordable boat that is turnkey. You will have more time on the water and with the family. If you still want to try it, have the boat moved to someplace that does not cost monthly rent and where you can work on it. You will be and for several years. That will help a lot. Then start reading all the posts here on the forum. These gents will gently guide you through the process from new throughhulls to the radar dome on top.

Good luck!
Jerry C. Namken, Ph.D. FXA 38 0064 Summer Palace
FXA 31 4014 Tranquility
Quote
Like
Share

Gary
Gary

August 17th, 2009, 6:47 pm #8

Check them out and give me your honest feedback.  Does this look like a restoration project that would be for the good.........can anyone give me a ballpark number on cost.  I can do a lot of the work myself but would need electrical help.  I have restored cars and motorcycles but would need help in certain areas.  I feel that the purchase price is right.  I feel like it would take a good year to do it right with what i am envisioning in respect to what i want it to look like.














I've done A LOT of work on my 42' CC, and I built a couple of 30+' sport boats from a bare hull. They were both located right at my house, I could do all the mechanical, electrical, engine, hydraulic, carpentry, upholstry work myself. I was able to find good deals or I had a lot of the parts. But this project would overwhelm me.
Unless it's located very near you, you have a lot of free time, a lot of cheap boat parts available, and a lot of disposable income...walk away. Everything needs to be replaced and you'll be retrofitting new engine/trans, water, toilet, electrical, etc. systems in the boat, and that takes a lot of time.
Quote
Share

Joined: August 15th, 2009, 1:09 am

August 17th, 2009, 11:29 pm #9

My sincere thanks to you all that have replied openly and honestly to my querey. After carefull consideration and the fact that it would have to be stored in a boatyard with monthly dues we have decided to, as one gentleman said, "walk away" from this deal. I am not detered, i'm still cruising the boating sites and will continue on with my quest of owning a Chris Craft, but, I'll be looking for one a little newer with not so much of a "complete" restoration needed.
Again thanks to you all that responded, it made me think a lot more clear on exactly what i'll be looking for in the future.

Rick
Quote
Like
Share