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Sickswan
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Sickswan
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Joined: May 16th, 2018, 7:28 pm

May 20th, 2018, 4:24 pm #21

So what are the standard needle roller bearing sizes?
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Sigean
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Sigean
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Joined: July 31st, 2018, 1:01 pm

September 12th, 2018, 2:35 pm #22

I have recently ordered standard needle roller bearings for my 404E, as well as some O rings for the seals.  The order was described as follows:

2 x HK2030 Drawn Cup Type Needle Roller Bearing With Two Open Ends 20x26x30mm (HK2030-MB) = £11.30
1 x 2.5mm Section 20mm Bore NITRILE 70 Rubber O-Rings (2.5x20.NBR) = £3.99
Pack Size Pack of 5
1 x 3mm Section 20mm Bore NITRILE 70 Rubber O-Rings (3x20.NBR) = £4.01
Pack Size Pack of 5

The two different O ring sizes are to allow me to determine the best fit on assembly.

In my view the bearing arrangement for the SA pivot is not the best.  I found the rollers on my bike, bought recently with an alleged 6000 miles on the clock, to be rusted and worn.  The sealing of the O rings must be inadequate, and in any event the design of the needle roller bearing is more suited to a rotational, rather than a reciprocating, motion.  The hardened steel bushes (and I need a couple of these) were fretted and/or brinelled, and at such a low mileage is astonishing to me.  Lubrication really requires removal of the SA, not a great feature as this becomes a tiresome procedure as I have found on my Honda XR400 (which, being of the same design as that used by CCM, at least provided more bearing surface for the overworked needles).

I note the use of Oilite bushings as a replacement, but advice from the makers of these excellent products suggests this material is not really suited to the duty imposed.  But were I using Oilite I would run the hardened steel bush in the Oilite, rather than the "bush in bush" mentioned by others, but I would still not expect a long or trouble-free life from the arrangement.  Perhaps a good phosphor bronze bushing, with means of lubrication (grease nipples), might be better.

I am still new to the bike - indeed, it has not turned a wheel on the road under my ownership thus far - and I am still puzzling over an improvement to the SA pivot design.

By the way, it is possible to obtain plain hardened steel bushes from bearing suppliers to run inside the needle rollers mentioned above, but these are not of the "top hat" design, nor do they have the correct i.d. for the CCM, so would require a little modification to be used.  Still, far cheaper than the spares counter CCM alternative.
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Rob 110
God
Joined: January 31st, 2012, 10:39 am

September 12th, 2018, 7:46 pm #23

Yeah rubbish.
The Oilites in my R30 swingarm are +15,000miles and no play!
On the 404 I'd get a 2-3000miles out of them, but that was all offroad (racing).
Wait until the swingarm spindle snaps on you :D
DIRTY R30 644 '03 TPS done, gubbins gone, GSXR can, 150 main, 27.5 pilot, needle 2nd position, K&N no lid
FILTHY 404DS '04: 152 main, 70 pilot air jet, 38 pilot, emm needle 4th clip, Quill T3. Sold :(
HUSKY FE501 missile

Mid Wales trail guide for hire: click Sweetlamb Facebook or www.adventurerallybike.co.uk


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Sigean
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Sigean
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Joined: July 31st, 2018, 1:01 pm

September 12th, 2018, 8:14 pm #24

OK.  No problem.  I'm simply offering a view and have yet to test my own theory.  I will report back once I have the benefit of experience.  But the Oilite suppliers suggested the inadvisability of their product in this application, and I can only report what I have been told.  The static and dynamic loads imposed on the bearing by the positioning of the lower damper pivot must be severe, but I have yet to calculate the actual values.  Being a sintered product the oilite will have limitations on the loads that can be endured, and I would have thought that a bronze bush might have greater capability in this regard.  Just a thought.  I will put my ideas into practice in the coming months when I prepare the bike for touring.
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