Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 11:19 pm

December 22nd, 2013, 3:55 pm #11

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
Marty, I'm not as old as you, but my recollections of how things were in the 1950s-60s have often been at odds with Bluetrain's. I don't know if its because we grew up in different parts of the country, or different social-economic strata or what but we have often argued about how things were during our childhoods on NSF and POTPOURRI. While I'm sure things did vary in different parts of the country I've contented that my experiences growing up in a fairly large southern city was more representative of the country as a whole than Blue's in a rural area in the hills of West Virgina.
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Joined: December 21st, 2012, 12:33 pm

December 22nd, 2013, 5:35 pm #12

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
Nat, BlueTrain, I'm at a loss here. I'm relatively new to these forums and I'm not clear how your (and anyone else's) experiences differ. I'd like to discuss that in detail, nailing down time and place for each actual experience.

Obviously that discussion doesn't belong in this thread but I don't know where it should be. To be clear about eligibility, I strip naked at clothes optional beaches, sleep naked and work out naked, but when I'm clothed I wear underwear (except on rare occasions when I'm wearing work clothes that will go into the wash immediately).

I don't think we need to argue if we're clear about when and where we had each experience. We should end up with specific examples of how much nakedness boys were accustomed to at different times in different places.

If you're willing, please respond with a link (or at least a clue) to where we could have this discussion.
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Joined: July 3rd, 2012, 11:19 pm

December 22nd, 2013, 5:55 pm #13

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
Well sure Marty, we could have this discussion at one of my forums- POTPOURRI.
As the name suggest- we talk about everything there and just clicking "POTPOURRI" will take you there.

. . . . .
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Joined: May 9th, 2005, 12:05 pm

December 23rd, 2013, 1:28 pm #14

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
Well, sir, Mr. Marty, I'm sorry if you took my comments personally. However, I am not here as a yes man to confirm Nat's (usually it's Nat) own experiences by saying that mine were exactly the same. They usually weren't and in fact, I'd venture to say that my experiences would have been different even if we'd lived in the same town at the same time.

I do not intend that my comments are representative of anything except my own experiences and those of people I have actually known. That means they're actually quite limited. I'm also leary of "assumptions" one way or the other, though I'm often guilty of making a few. Discussions usually start with some assumptions, "for the sake of discussion," as they say.

I make a response on Potpourri and hopefully I don't contradict myself too many times. Understand that in all cases, my comments are not necessarily based on what actually happened but rather on what I remember happening, which can be different. In a few cases, photographic evidence is disturbingly contradictory. In any event, I'm only "pretty sure" of things that happened when I was in high school 50 years ago and not absolutely 100% certain. My report cards confirmed that I was only "pretty sure" about a lot of things. Unfortunately I never was able to talk to my father about his high school experiences because he never went to high school.

Nat asserts that boys never had problems with communal nudity when he was in school. Well, I think that assumtion is unwarranted and is made to prove a point. I have no idea what most of the other boys in my gym classes thought (a couple I do know about, though) about being nude with all the other boys there. I "SUSPECT" that a few MIGHT have had a problem with it. But see my post on the other forum for additional comments about group nudity.

Here's another point: most of these boys were boys that I'd known for years, which is not to say they were friends. Changing clothes in front of total strangers, who were grown men, was another story. Not a lot of drama but a matter of some concern just the same. Perhaps that's the case today at gyms, assuming you aren't friends with the other members of the gym. Personally, I don't see why anyone's modesty should be a problem but to some people it seems to be perceived as a deep psychological problem.

To be more specific, I lived in Princeton, West Virginia, and attended Mercer County schools until the end of the first semester of my senior year when we moved to the next county where I finished school. I did not have gym at the other school. I attended West Virginia University, graduating in 1971, with three years in the army in between. I took gym in college as a freshman but have hardly any memory of it (unlike high school and junior high). We had gym in grade school but there were no showers and no gym uniform. My time in the army was spent at Ft. Knox (as was my father and my son), Ft. Sill, Oklahoma, Ft. Riley, Kansas, and the rest of the time in Augsburg, Germany. I got out in 1968. I served for a year in the D.C. National Guard. I now live in Northern Virginia where I got married in 1979 in Washington, D.C. I have a daughter who lives in Germany and a son who lives in California. I would prefer not to be more specific than that.
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Joined: December 21st, 2012, 12:33 pm

December 23rd, 2013, 3:44 pm #15

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
BlueTrain, could you copy the essence of that last post to the "Naked boys (and men)" thread on Potpourri? The location information, the difference between the presence of friends and strangers, and the unreliability of memory would be valuable contributions to that thread.

I want to make clear that I was, and am, apologizing for taking your remarks personally. It was an automatic emotional response that I knew had no rational foundation. That's the way it often is with feelings, isn't it? Let it rest. I value your contributions; please continue (in the appropriate thread, as this one is supposed to be about girls [grin] ... ).
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Joined: May 9th, 2005, 12:05 pm

December 23rd, 2013, 4:03 pm #16

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
Nat and I have had sparks over the months and sometimes I've gotten a little peeved but I'm still here. I have, however, stopped visiting other forums because basically I am out of line with the general sentiment of those other places. In other words, I'm politically incorrect.

I'm not here to dispute, really, the experiences that other have (or claimed to have had) but instead to contribute my own, at least that's the theory.

I'll try to repost some of that on the other board if I get the time. I'm not operating on borrowed time; it's stolen time.

Another thing about my posts is they aren't academic papers carefully written and edited but mostly are entirely off the cuff. So they aren't always going to be well referenced, cross-checked or written in good English.
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Anonymous
Anonymous

December 23rd, 2013, 10:48 pm #17

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
It is a matter of changing times. The modesty of little boys, teenage boys, young men and male adults was not really thought of at the turn of the century because there was just nothing to really make it happen. Bathing was done in rivers or public baths or washtubs in the kitchen for awhile until indoor plumbing came about but then it took some time for things to settle down. And then you had the YMCA where swimming naked with other boys and older adult men was considered perfectly natural and normal. After all everyone there had a penis so why would you want to be shy, it was considered 'manly' to go naked in front of your male peers regardless of age.

But as school showers slowly began to be eliminated due to times in the school schedules not allowing, scouts stopped going naked in rivers or pools due to lawsuits and fears of lawsuits and / or pedophiles, the daycare center scandals of pedophile behavior started popping up, the world began to change. People began to fear being naked around one another and the adults were raising their children to feel the same. That is why you see the towel dances in today's locker rooms from the kids. The male adults is a different matter.

I grew up shy and modest but became interested in nudism in my 20s. Today at age 38 I am not ashamed or bothered to be seen naked by either sex and it seems foolish and silly to be covering up around another male, regardless if it is a nine year old boy or a 40 year old man. We all have the same parts and we are all different sizes, lengths, erect, etc. why cover up when the same sex is involved.

I think it is a cultural change combining with modesty issues due to not being nude around peers growing up. I know in gym class we changed down to our underwear and back, never showering. And I never saw my peers naked that much growing up and was only seen naked by my peers a few times. Embarrassed each time due to my modesty issues but as I have written I am now over all of that and find nudity especially around the same sex to be natural and non sexual. So what if another man sees your penis? Do you think he has anything that you do not have? I wish the towel dances would just go away and things could feel 'normal' again.
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Joined: May 9th, 2005, 12:05 pm

January 2nd, 2014, 12:30 pm #18

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
And what is normal? And when have the times not been changing?

I have only commented on things with which I had direct experience, which means very little. I have no first hand experience with what high school was like before or after I was in school, so I am reluctant to criticize anyone for their "modest" behavior, as if modesty were a sin or a sign of mental retardation.

I used to think I was shy, though not particularly modest. Later I realized I wasn't shy at all, just quiet. I'm still that way, although sometimes I've been to a 7-11 and upon leaving, noticed that I spoke to everyone in the store. I live in a place where a lot of people are foreign and I'm always asking people where they're from. Usually they seem flattered that someone's interested I expect I irritate a few people, too. But I'd still describe myself as quiet. In fact, I was voted "quietest" in high school in the senior superlatives. The irony there is that you have to be well known to be voted anything.

I noticed that you didn't mention gays in your comments. I would expect that more boys are worried about gays than anything else in school as far as being seen naked. If anyone was gay when I was in high school, they certainly kept it well hidden.

One definition of normal, you understand, is that which everyone does. There are a few who like to say that wearing clothes isn't normal. So, what do you think?
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Ken
Ken

January 5th, 2014, 9:57 am #19

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
At my school in the 1980s boys had to strip naked and walk to the showers without a towel, often had to walk through another changing room where another class may be getting talk from the teacher before going to gym class. Part of that naked walk involved going past an open door to the rest of the school, although only boys end of the school. Showers were open and on display to the rest of the changing room. I cant remember anyone having any trauma about having to do any of this.

The Girls had a smiler changing room arrangement, but would strip under a towel and walk to the showers in their towel. The showers had curtains around them so none of them had to be naked in front of each other. They said they would try and keep the curtains tightly shut and panic in case someone accidentally opened their curtain.

Talking to guys that went to the same school in the 1990s the shower arrangements were still the same, however it wasn't compulsory to use them. If they do use them they left on their shorts and just rinsed off arms and legs.

Also seeing a change in changing rooms in pubic places like swimming pools. The once separate mens/woomans changing rooms are being turned into one big "changing village" full of individual cubicles. I personally don't like these and don't like been confined to a small cubical when getting changed, or having to shower in my shorts.
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Joined: May 9th, 2005, 12:05 pm

January 6th, 2014, 1:10 pm #20

It seems like every time I see something on these forums---CN, FBF, NSF...about a teenager all distraught over having to take a communal shower, it's a boy. I never seem to hear similar worries from girls, or horror stories about their showers in school.

The scene in Carrie with Sissy Spacek seems to show that they took communals too. There was a girl in junior I often saw with wet hair in the halls, indicating she showered. (Oddly, she's the only girl I remember who had it.)If girls communally showered, why don't they have their "trauma" stories? If they're more modest, if not by nature, then by culture, why do we hear so little from them about their experiences. Maybe they do talk about it as much as males, but it's just on other forums. Anybody have any ideas?
Well, like I say, my experiences have been limited.

A changing room and shower arrangement in which kids have to walk in front of open doors in view of others would be seen as quite bizarre just about anywhere. In high school, the shower was at one end of the changing room, which was not a locker room, just a changing room. In the junior high school, however, the shower room was down the hall, although you didn't go by any doors along the way. It was a very old school building and the changing room was literally a hole-in-the-wall.

I must admit that I have no memory whatsoever of my first gym class when I had to take a shower. Some things remain vivid, however, like the changing rooms. We had a city pool that I sometimes went to a few times in the summer. Usually I had to get there on my bike if I wanted to go and it was a couple of miles away. The changing room was open to the sky. There were benches in the middle and in large open front cubicles along two sides and showers on the other side. You were supposed to take a shower before you went in the pool but it was not enforced as I recall. I do remember being very nervous about changing clothes in front of strangers, who would have been older men.
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