The NRA is full of crap

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 9:12 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 7:09 pm #141

While that is true, flagstick, that would never stop me (and many others) from talking about it and working toward it if we thought it was necessary.  I don't and I think many others feel the same. We can solve this with other legislation. 
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Joined: April 27th, 2011, 4:12 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 7:22 pm #142

Island Annie wrote:
gator wrote:I hope I am wrong. Its just that I have a feeling a lot of people aren't willing to admit that they really do want most types of firearms banned. I've heard people flip flop on this issue so many times, depending on who they are talking too. Same goes for Politicians. 

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone here who thinks 2A should be repealed?
I think you might be buying into what the NRA is selling. Don't do that.

They wanted you to believe that Obama (or Hillary) was going to take away your guns. That's on no one's agenda that I know of.

They want you to believe that registration, background checks, training laws, "fingerprint grips" (not sure of the actual term) and other safety measures are a form of infringement.

They want you to completely ignore the "well-regulated militia" phrase in 2A.

I agree with Sugarmagnolia that military-style weapons should not be available to the general public. I think the entry to gun ownership should be more rigorous than owning a car. I think parents should be prosecuted when their child shoots someone with an unsecured gun, even if it is another family member. God knows we arrest mothers for leaving their kids in the car or letting them go to the park by themselves, but storing your gun in a side table drawer, where any toddler can grab it, seems to be totally okay.

I want the assholes who walk around in public with heavy weaponry, stalking playgrounds, and Target stores and Starbucks, just because they can, to be appropriately considered a threat and removed.

I know plenty of hunters who are reasonable people and who handle and store their weapons safely. It's not a burden. Most NRA baseline membership supports background checks. Their leadership does not.
No, I think for myself and the NRA has never swayed my opinion. I was never convinced Obama or Clinton wanted to "take our guns", although, its no secret that the large majority of Democrats want to ban all semi autos (82% I think). This includes long guns, pistols and even revolvers, even though technically a revolver doesn't meet the criteria for a semi auto.

About the Well Regulated Militia part, the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

I do agree with you that parents should be prosecuted if their child commits a crime with their gun. Adam Lanza's mother for for example, god rest her soul, but why why why did she have guns in the house when she knew perfectly well her kid was nuts!? I honestly think Sandy Hook could have been easily avoided. I doubt Adam Lanza could have legally obtained a gun himself. He didn't even leave his room.

Are you talking about open carry? I'm ok with people carrying handguns if they so choose too, but not long guns.
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Joined: April 27th, 2011, 4:12 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 7:38 pm #143

Karly, I've mentioned before that the AR Platform is extremely versatile and there is no end to its customization. I think this is the main reason why they are so popular. They also come in all different calibers, not just .223 like most think. I support people to decide for themselves what they need and don't need.


http://real-hunting.com/why-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15/
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Joined: July 28th, 2016, 11:31 am

April 3rd, 2018, 7:45 pm #144

gator wrote: Karly, I've mentioned before that the AR Platform is extremely versatile and there is no end to its customization. I think this is the main reason why they are so popular. They also come in all different calibers, not just .223 like most think. I support people to decide for themselves what they need and don't need.


http://real-hunting.com/why-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15/
So please, gator, will you tell us what guns are out there that are killing our kids that are not needed for hunting, etc?  Which weapons could we reasonably ban?
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Joined: April 27th, 2011, 4:12 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 8:08 pm #145

Devil Fire wrote:
gator wrote: Karly, I've mentioned before that the AR Platform is extremely versatile and there is no end to its customization. I think this is the main reason why they are so popular. They also come in all different calibers, not just .223 like most think. I support people to decide for themselves what they need and don't need.


http://real-hunting.com/why-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15/
So please, gator, will you tell us what guns are out there that are killing our kids that are not needed for hunting, etc?  Which weapons could we reasonably ban?
Banning guns is not the solution. Do you honestly think the most recent school shooting wouldn't have happened if AR-15's weren't available? This kid had mental issues and should have been involuntarily committed for psychiatric treatment, at least for 72 hours, so he could have been diagnosed.. The Florida Mental Health Agency who decided not to do so dropped the ball.

I also think more studies need to be done on Psych Meds and mass shootings. There seems to be a correlation and Dr's are prescribing them more than ever.
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Joined: July 28th, 2016, 11:31 am

April 3rd, 2018, 8:26 pm #146

gator wrote:
Devil Fire wrote:
gator wrote: Karly, I've mentioned before that the AR Platform is extremely versatile and there is no end to its customization. I think this is the main reason why they are so popular. They also come in all different calibers, not just .223 like most think. I support people to decide for themselves what they need and don't need.


http://real-hunting.com/why-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15/
So please, gator, will you tell us what guns are out there that are killing our kids that are not needed for hunting, etc?  Which weapons could we reasonably ban?
Banning guns is not the solution. Do you honestly think the most recent school shooting wouldn't have happened if AR-15's weren't available? This kid had mental issues and should have been involuntarily committed for psychiatric treatment, at least for 72 hours, so he could have been diagnosed.. The Florida Mental Health Agency who decided not to do so dropped the ball.

I also think more studies need to be done on Psych Meds and mass shootings. There seems to be a correlation and Dr's are prescribing them more than ever.
Fewer people would have died if not an AR-15.  And if he had been better screened for a gun in the first place, it wouldn't have happened at all.
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Joined: April 27th, 2011, 4:12 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 8:47 pm #147

Devil Fire wrote:
gator wrote:
Devil Fire wrote:
gator wrote: Karly, I've mentioned before that the AR Platform is extremely versatile and there is no end to its customization. I think this is the main reason why they are so popular. They also come in all different calibers, not just .223 like most think. I support people to decide for themselves what they need and don't need.


http://real-hunting.com/why-does-anyone-need-an-ar-15/
So please, gator, will you tell us what guns are out there that are killing our kids that are not needed for hunting, etc?  Which weapons could we reasonably ban?
Banning guns is not the solution. Do you honestly think the most recent school shooting wouldn't have happened if AR-15's weren't available? This kid had mental issues and should have been involuntarily committed for psychiatric treatment, at least for 72 hours, so he could have been diagnosed.. The Florida Mental Health Agency who decided not to do so dropped the ball.

I also think more studies need to be done on Psych Meds and mass shootings. There seems to be a correlation and Dr's are prescribing them more than ever.
Fewer people would have died if not an AR-15.  And if he had been better screened for a gun in the first place, it wouldn't have happened at all.
You don't know that. And yes, I agree he should have been screened better considering his history. I'm all for increased background checks and restrictions for people with certain criminal records, such as domestic violence for example.
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Joined: February 19th, 2010, 9:12 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 9:18 pm #148

The Youtube shooting today...right now it is looking like a handgun with 3 wounded and the shooter died of self-inflicted wounds.  Investigations are underway.
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Joined: November 13th, 2010, 12:37 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 10:03 pm #149

Every civilized nation on the planet has fewer mass shooting than we do. They all have bullies, violent media, and every single fake "cause" the NRA and the morons who parrot their "excuses" put out there. 

There is only ONE thing that separates the US from the entire rest of the civilized world: easy access to guns. 

Period. 

You can throw smoke and bullshit all you want, but THAT is the root of the problem 
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Joined: January 9th, 2008, 8:26 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 10:18 pm #150

Fortune Cookie wrote: Every civilized nation on the planet has fewer mass shooting than we do. They all have bullies, violent media, and every single fake "cause" the NRA and the morons who parrot their "excuses" put out there. 

There is only ONE thing that separates the US from the entire rest of the civilized world: easy access to guns. 

Period. 

You can throw smoke and bullshit all you want, but THAT is the root of the problem 
mental health is the root problem
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Joined: November 13th, 2010, 12:37 pm

April 3rd, 2018, 11:42 pm #151

Every country in the world has mental health problems at the same rate as the US. 

No, that is not the problem. 

Stop being a moron. 
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Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 1:30 am

April 4th, 2018, 8:00 am #152

Why can’t it be both? They are not mutually exclusive problems. United States has real problems providing affordable, accessible healthcare, especially mental health care.
We also have an enormous problem with gun violence that needs to be addressed. So if both of you got busy trying to support causes that try to address these issues we would all benefit. So there!!!
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Joined: September 1st, 2012, 8:06 am

April 4th, 2018, 8:30 am #153

sugarmagnolia wrote: I don't.  I think that military-like weaponry should not be in the hands of civilians.  I think that gun ownership should require a license process, including education about safe gun ownership.  I think that there should be severe penalties for unsafe gun ownership (not properly storing guns, etc). I feel uneasy about concealed carry gun laws, but I am not sure about what to do about it. But I can see that gun ownership is both a pleasure and a necessity for many people, and that gun ownership is deeply embedded in the American culture.
I think I am in love with sugar...certainly with her reasoning and stance on this.  Beautifully put.
(IA, too for all the same reasons, btw)
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Joined: September 1st, 2012, 8:06 am

April 4th, 2018, 8:36 am #154

tyu12 wrote:
Fortune Cookie wrote: Every civilized nation on the planet has fewer mass shooting than we do. They all have bullies, violent media, and every single fake "cause" the NRA and the morons who parrot their "excuses" put out there. 

There is only ONE thing that separates the US from the entire rest of the civilized world: easy access to guns. 

Period. 

You can throw smoke and bullshit all you want, but THAT is the root of the problem
mental health is the root problem
Ah - the irony...
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Joined: December 22nd, 2007, 10:06 pm

April 4th, 2018, 8:43 am #155

tyu12 wrote: mental health is the root problem
Thanks for providing ample proof of this.

peregrine
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Joined: November 13th, 2010, 12:37 pm

April 4th, 2018, 8:58 am #156

sugarmagnolia wrote: Why can’t it be both? They are not mutually exclusive problems.  United States has real problems providing affordable, accessible healthcare, especially mental health care.
We also have an enormous problem with gun violence that needs to be addressed.  So if both of you got busy trying to support causes that try to address these issues we would all benefit. So there!!!
Of course mental health is a problem. Did you think I ever said it wasn't?

But it is NOT the root of the gun violence problem in America. Not by a long shot. 


Similarly, bullying is a problem. But it is not the root of the gun violence problem in America. Do you think that because I believe this, that I condone bullying or think it should not be addressed in its own right? 

Etc. 

Etc. 

Etc. 
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Joined: February 19th, 2010, 9:12 pm

April 4th, 2018, 9:19 am #157

Exactly, FC.  Of course mental health and bullying are issues we need to better address in this country.  However they cannot continue to be used as an excuse to do nothing about gun safety legislation.  As you have pointed out, those problems exist in other countries that do not have the mass shooting problems we do.  (However, if someone is unwilling to advocate for gun safety legislation then please advocate for solutions to the other issues we face. Or do all of it if you can.)
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 12:41 am

April 5th, 2018, 5:38 pm #158

Are you talking about open carry? I'm ok with people carrying handguns if they so choose too, but not long guns.
No, I'm definitely talking about long guns.

This is going back a few years but there have been incidents at playgrounds where (white) guys have marched up and down the perimeters intimidating mothers and children, cops have been called and the callers have been told that there is no legal recourse.

Another group decided it would be awesome to hang out in the baby section of Target for a few days with guns slung over their backs. Thankfully that eventually lead to Target changing their firearms policy nationwide.

The same with Starbucks. A few weeks after Sandy Hook, a bunch of gun nuts planned to hold an armed rally at the Starbucks in NEWTOWN. I think the local Starbucks closed that day and the company changed their policy nationwide.

Again, there are plenty of gun owners who do not behave this way, and I wish more of them would call out those who do.
"...the problem with pounding a square peg into a round hole is not that the hammering is hard work. It's that you're destroying the peg." ."

-Paul Collins


    
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Joined: September 1st, 2012, 8:06 am

April 6th, 2018, 8:30 am #159

Island Annie wrote:
Are you talking about open carry? I'm ok with people carrying handguns if they so choose too, but not long guns.
..... there have been incidents at playgrounds where (white) guys have marched up and down the perimeters intimidating mothers and children, cops have been called and the callers have been told that there is no legal recourse.
Another group decided it would be awesome to hang out in the baby section of Target for a few days with guns slung over their backs. Thankfully that eventually lead to Target changing their firearms policy nationwide.
The same with Starbucks. A few weeks after Sandy Hook, a bunch of gun nuts planned to hold an armed rally at the Starbucks in NEWTOWN. I think the local Starbucks closed that day and the company changed their policy nationwide.

Again, there are plenty of gun owners who do not behave this way, and I wish more of them would call out those who do.
So many of them are more concerned with dick-swinging than any rational defense of any part of the Constitution. As pathetic/sad as the MENSA candidate who went to the March For Our Lives in Boston dressed in full camo. holding a sign that said "suck my dick".
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t
Joined: August 11th, 2007, 12:04 am

April 6th, 2018, 9:13 am #160

You can argue AWB, but can you imagine, if the state of Florida had licensing requirements similar to Mass, that the person responsible would have gotten an FID, license to carry?

AWB is just a distraction. There is no performance standard in the AWB, so as I have said, it is like banning blue guns.

Proper licensing, the first step to safety

the NRA opposes licensing, fight them there, they are wrong
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