Plastic Bags in Gloucester? Yea or Nay in Today's Globe North-- Cox v. Whynott

Sigurdr
Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 00:46

08 Nov 2017, 19:28 #61

OneCommentOnly wrote:
Sigurdr wrote:
OneCommentOnly wrote: I didn't know Mr. Sclafani's position on the plastic bags.  I would have voted for him.  As it is, I didn't vote in the past two local elections.  I might vote next time after the very sensible Mr. Wynott lost, not to mention Mr. Orlando.  Why doesn't Mr. Sclafani run for city council?  We could use some plain-spoken, sensible people always on the council.
Ok, now I get it. Troll level: EXPERT.
I see, Sigurdr.  The only sensible point of view is YOURS.  Got it.  That's why I didn't read anything posted on the thread after my first post.  I long ago stopped dealing with this kind of ugly back-and-forth.  That is my opinion.  Mr. Wynott absolutely epitomized common sense in his discussion of this bag-banning push.  I am neither stupid (Fortune Cookie) nor a troll (you) simply because I don't ECHO YOUR OPINIONS.  I've said all I needed to say on this issue and then some. 
I was referring to the fact that you said you would have voted for Sclafani, then suggested he should run for city council as a plain-spoken and sensible candidate. No one has ever described him as such, and his actions/speech have not given any indication that he is either of those things. He has, however, shown himself to be vile and into conspiracy theories and general lunacy. So, I assumed you were trolling. If you weren't, well, ok then. Not really sure how to respond to that...
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Fortune Cookie
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 17:37

08 Nov 2017, 19:30 #62

Cathy (Admin) wrote: I'm thinking that grocery store bags might be reused much more than bread bags, produce bags, newspaper bags, or dry cleaning bags and that more grocery store bags are returned to the store and recycled than those others.  Heck, I know some people who accumulate way more dry cleaning bags than grocery store bags each week.   I'm not sure that I get why grocery store bags seem to be the big plastic bag target.
All those kinds of bags can be recycled with the plastic grocery bags, as long as they're the same kind of plastic. All my bags of the four types you mention are. 

Any type of HDPE or LDPE film can be recycled with them. 
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Fortune Cookie

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Leland33
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

08 Nov 2017, 19:36 #63

OCO - I was joking about banning.  

Your position is fairly much mine / let the free market adjust without the ban.

Those colorful bags cost but are fashionable.  Hopefully the reuse able bags are washed of not the store might spray them as needed.

The Boston Globe survey linked at the first post is BOGUS because you can vote as much as you want.  It would be wrong for GCC Cox to reference it,
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OneCommentOnly
Joined: 30 Oct 2017, 17:29

08 Nov 2017, 19:40 #64

Sigurdr wrote:  "I was referring to the fact that you said you would have voted for Sclafani, then suggested he should run for city council as a plain-spoken and sensible candidate. No one has ever described him as such, and his actions/speech have not given any indication that he is either of those things. He has, however, shown himself to be vile and into conspiracy theories and general lunacy. So, I assumed you were trolling. If you weren't, well, ok then. Not really sure how to respond to that..."

Well, Sigurdr, Mr. Sclafani certainly is sensible when it comes to this issue of the bag ban.  I can't say I know what you're talking about when you accuse him of the rest.  Vile?  General lunacy?  And you're "not really sure how to respond" to the fact that I praised Mr. Sclafani and two other city councilors.  Oh, my, my, my!  Am I ideologically non-compliant again?  I wouldn't throw stones at people so often, sigurdr, since you sound pretty "vile" yourself in your denunciation of Mr. Sclafani.  Tut-tut.  This is why I stopped "discussing" things with the ideologically hide-bound and perpetually angry personalities on the Internet.  Bye. . . for now.
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Fortune Cookie
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 17:37

08 Nov 2017, 19:41 #65

Buh-bye! 

(Oh, PLEASE let it be telling the truth this time...)
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪

Fortune Cookie

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Sigurdr
Joined: 13 Nov 2007, 00:46

08 Nov 2017, 19:48 #66

OneCommentOnly wrote: Sigurdr wrote:  "I was referring to the fact that you said you would have voted for Sclafani, then suggested he should run for city council as a plain-spoken and sensible candidate. No one has ever described him as such, and his actions/speech have not given any indication that he is either of those things. He has, however, shown himself to be vile and into conspiracy theories and general lunacy. So, I assumed you were trolling. If you weren't, well, ok then. Not really sure how to respond to that..."

Well, Sigurdr, Mr. Sclafani certainly is sensible when it comes to this issue of the bag ban.  I can't say I know what you're talking about when you accuse him of the rest.  Vile?  General lunacy?  And you're "not really sure how to respond" to the fact that I praised Mr. Sclafani and two other city councilors.  Oh, my, my, my!  Am I ideologically non-compliant again?  I wouldn't throw stones at people so often, sigurdr, since you sound pretty "vile" yourself in your denunciation of Mr. Sclafani.  Tut-tut.  This is why I stopped "discussing" things with the ideologically hide-bound and perpetually angry personalities on the Internet.  Bye. . . for now.
Cripes, go read about the mayoral debate this year and some of Sclafani's positions in the last few elections.
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Cathy (Admin)
Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

08 Nov 2017, 20:30 #67

Clean Gloucester's post is obviously about writing in support, but it is also an opportunity for those who oppose to get their comments to councilors.  There will be a public hearing at the Tuesday, November 14, city council meeting.

Clean Gloucester

2 hrs · 

Now that the very exciting election has been decided, we're back to work! Written comments in support of the ordinance are due tomorrow, Thursday November 9th! They should be submitted to the City Clerk (jsenos@gloucester-ma.gov), and she will distribute them to all councilors.

Your comments do not need to be long. Consider one or two lines such as,

I am writing to support the proposed plastic bag ordinance because: 
- I am concerned about the health of our ocean and the fish we eat;
- I care about protecting our planet and being sustainable for future generations;
- I am concerned about the number of wild animals harmed by ingesting plastic;
- I believe we should be reducing our use of products made from fossil fuels;
- As a coastal community, Gloucester should be a leader in sustainability and environmentally friendly practices.

https://www.facebook.com/cleangloucester/
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Damon
Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 22:00

08 Nov 2017, 20:33 #68

How about "all of the above"?
.... but I care more about the stupid plastic water bottles.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Leland33
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

08 Nov 2017, 20:54 #69

I drink one to two gallons of tap water, chlorine and all, per week of Gloucester water. Sometimes I refill soda bottles. The Gloucester water when flavored (grape) is masked so the seasonal dose of chlorine is tolerable.

Iced coffee is brewed and frozen for 3-4 hours. I wash out a med McD's cup with lid and straw.

My bad habit is I love to drive - I was so close to driving to AMC Cold River after the Fryeburg vote (for foliage) which would have cancelled my recycle for probably years.

Better off walking around town.
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battlingignorance
Joined: 01 Sep 2012, 12:06

08 Nov 2017, 22:23 #70

Sigurdr wrote:
OneCommentOnly wrote: I didn't know Mr. Sclafani's position on the plastic bags.  I would have voted for him.  As it is, I didn't vote in the past two local elections.  I might vote next time after the very sensible Mr. Wynott lost, not to mention Mr. Orlando.  Why doesn't Mr. Sclafani run for city council?  We could use some plain-spoken, sensible people always on the council.
Ok, now I get it. Troll level: EXPERT.
Or, quite possibly, someone who is a disciple of Hugo Ball, et al?!  Certainly comedic....and likely not so very new to CAO, either.
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William Taylor.e
Joined: 30 Mar 2007, 04:27

08 Nov 2017, 22:34 #71

Leland33 wrote: Stop & Shop cashiers are pretty good and they're union.

Mesh sounds fine if it is well tested.

My point about Harvard is through my tech work I've had the pleasure of listening to student and professors speak on a many variety of subjects at the various schools of Harvard.

It's an milieux of smart and to be smarter students because of the milieux.   If the subject was study paper vs plastic they'd be expected to go beyond that.  What would surprise me is the latitude of different approaches.

I oppose an all out ban -  the supermarkets should be approached by the city and to suggest and NOT mandate.

Where gonna be busy enough with all the new business Holmgren brings to town.

Good going Jen.
Buy a string mesh bag at Common Crow, Leland...if you don't like it I will pay you for it!...and I will thrown in a Snickers bar as well...
You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give..
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gloman
Joined: 25 Jan 2008, 05:11

08 Nov 2017, 22:51 #72

OneCommentOnly wrote: I was talking to my doctor about this pending bag ban in September.  She agreed that it is a bad idea and is harmful for people with back problems and especially elderly people with spinal stenosis who can't lift these huge cloth bags filled with all their groceries.  She had just visited Gloucester and said some unflattering things about the elitists and moneybags who impose their will on the rest of the city.  I am concerned about this inadvisable mandate pushed by selfish people who don't care about the damage they're doing to the health of people who cannot carry that much concentrated weight when they go grocery shopping.  As always, I am not interested in "discussing" anything with those who have been excoriating Ms. Eason and Ms. Kesterson (sp?).  I guarantee that these name-callers would do very poorly in a one-on-one debate with either of these smart women.
Thanks for your comments Ms Kesterson🙊🙉🙈😠
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Cathy (Admin)
Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

09 Nov 2017, 01:21 #73

Fortune Cookie wrote:
Cathy (Admin) wrote: I'm thinking that grocery store bags might be reused much more than bread bags, produce bags, newspaper bags, or dry cleaning bags and that more grocery store bags are returned to the store and recycled than those others.  Heck, I know some people who accumulate way more dry cleaning bags than grocery store bags each week.   I'm not sure that I get why grocery store bags seem to be the big plastic bag target.
All those kinds of bags can be recycled with the plastic grocery bags, as long as they're the same kind of plastic. All my bags of the four types you mention are. 

Any type of HDPE or LDPE film can be recycled with them. 
I know that.  My question is why the big push for a ban on plastic carryout bags and not the others?  How many newspapers get delivered every single day in a plastic bag?

I'm not sure if they are included in the ban or not - I've seen a reference to "plastic carryout bags" and "all aspects of a single-use plastic bag ban."  This discussion/process has been going on for years in the council and I've admittedly not followed it closely.

This is part of the last O&A discussion where the ordinance was recommended to the Council for a vote, full meeting minutes are here:

http://gloucester-ma.gov/ArchiveCenter/ ... /Item/8060

10/16/17 O & A 

Councilor O’Hara said a senior citizen contacted him, in her 90’s who lives independently but walks with a cane is concerned about carrying her purchases during winter months and told him reusable bags are too large and awkward for her needs. He recounted that he recommended to her that if this ban should pass it wouldn’t start until Jan. 1, 2019 and suggested she stockpile bags so that upon that date could she take her single-use plastic bags into any store and use them to carry home her purchases. Chip Payson, General Counsel, said that she could do that and that it is allowable under this ban, and that she has over a year to stockpile single-use plastic bags. Ms. Smith said under the new proposed GCO Ch. 9, Sec. 9-13(b) reusing single-use plastic bags that were obtained prior to the ban is allowed if brought to the point of purchase by the purchaser. She advised that the Clean City Commission is appearing before Awesome Gloucester after the O&A meeting to pitch a grant idea for funding their purchase of small, lightweight nylon bags that fit in a pocket and fold out to a smaller size overall, ideal for seniors. She noted that under the guidance of Councilor Gilman they are working on senior outreach about this issue.

In Ipswich:

"The board also reminded the town that a plastic bag and Styrofoam ban goes into effect on Nov. 15 and accepted a $5,000 donation from Wheelabrator Technologies Inc. for insulated cooler bags for senior citizens, the food pantry and others."

http://ipswich.wickedlocal.com/news/201 ... se-new-40b
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Fortune Cookie
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 17:37

09 Nov 2017, 01:29 #74

I assumed, since your friends are "accumulating" way more dry cleaning bags than they accumulate plastic grocery bags, that they didn't realize they could recycle them with the plastic grocery bags. I accumulate probably three dry cleaning bags per year. I guess your friends just do a whole lot more dry cleaning than I do.


I don't see dry cleaning bags waving from the trees at all, much less in the quantity the grocery bags do. That might have something to do with it. Also, there are many readily available choices to replace plastic grocery bags, all the snowflake whinging to the contrary notwithstanding. I'm not sure there are viable replacements for the dry cleaning bags. 
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Fortune Cookie

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Fortune Cookie
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 17:37

09 Nov 2017, 01:30 #75

Also, I read something somewhere that specifically excluded the three types of mage you mention. I am not sure it was the Gloucester proposal, but it was somewhere! 
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Fortune Cookie

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Cathy (Admin)
Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

09 Nov 2017, 02:05 #76

I didn't say friends; I said I know people, lol.

"Also, there are many readily available choices to replace plastic grocery bags ..."

I get that.

"I don't see dry cleaning bags waving from the trees at all, much less in the quantity the grocery bags do. That might have something to do with it."

A big something to do with it and a littering issue.  Believe me, I would be more than happy to never again see a plastic bag in a tree.  I dunno, this just seems to be such a hot-button issue with so many conflicting arguments picking up speed across the country - the cause du jour.

Anyhow, I saw this on Clean Gloucester's FB page:

Image
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Cathy (Admin)
Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

09 Nov 2017, 02:08 #77

And plastic cereal bags.

For the record, I rant almost daily about excess packaging on all kinds of stuff.
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Dun Fudgin
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 03:54

09 Nov 2017, 02:55 #78

I see that Dollar Store at Gloucester Crossing uses biodegradable/ compost friendly "plastic" bags. That's what the city should focus on instead of an out right plastic bag ban. And you would figure if a "Dollar Store" can afford those bags they should be affordable for all establishments.
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OneCommentOnly
Joined: 30 Oct 2017, 17:29

09 Nov 2017, 11:42 #79

Dun Fudgin wrote: I see that Dollar Store at Gloucester Crossing uses biodegradable/ compost friendly "plastic" bags. That's what the city should focus on instead of an out right plastic bag ban. And you would figure if a "Dollar Store" can afford those bags they should be affordable for all establishments.
That would be a perfect solution!  Can you talk to the councilors and the mayor?  I don't know any of them.  Reusing old bags for new groceries isn't a good idea, especially for produce.  People who don't have back problems don't understand this issue of lifting something too heavy and ending up with a back unable to support your body when you stand.  I don't want to go back to that, so I'm careful.  Why are they considering a ban if they could do this? 

For the record, I am not Ms. Kesterson, gloman.
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OneCommentOnly
Joined: 30 Oct 2017, 17:29

09 Nov 2017, 11:49 #80

Fortune Cookie wrote: Buh-bye! 

(Oh, PLEASE let it be telling the truth this time...)
Good morning, Fortune Cookie!
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