On the Agenda: City Council, 11/28 - boat launch fees, dinghy fees, walk-on beach fee, $1m school feasibility study

flounda
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 05:22

28 Nov 2017, 16:35 #41

Committeewomen Melissa Teixeira and Kathleen Clancy, as quoted in the GDTimes story, one of the sites to be looked at in the study is the Green Street playground?
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I'm guessing they have their site set on the east gloucester location and the others are just window dressing that aren't feasible.
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jasongrow
Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 10:15

28 Nov 2017, 16:43 #42

Matisse wrote:
jasongrow wrote: The beach walk on fee is just a bad idea. I love my beach and yes, it gets crowded during the summer, but damn, folks, finding more ways to make this city less inviting? Bin this one and let's move on. 
Isn't there a law that protects public access between the high and low water mark that makes this proposal illegal? The city can charge for parking, but I think the public has a protected right to access the beach.
I certainly hope so...
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jasongrow
Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 10:15

28 Nov 2017, 16:45 #43

The feasibility study is required to qualify for the state reimbursement -- no feasibility study means we save the $1M and pick up the full tab for any school building... or we do the study and look to get reimbursed nearly 60% of the total cost (including the feasibility study).... this is an easy one.
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Damon
Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 22:00

28 Nov 2017, 17:00 #44

Yes, we are stuck with the feasibility study assuming we go for state subsidy.
The study I would like to see is what the state subsidy costs us in total and if it is worth it.
The routine is we hire an architect satisfactory to the state at 6% of the project cost immediately. Then we get a design that meets state funding requirements, which are not always what we would do given a choice. We get a contractor who submits the low bid that is on their list, never a local one. You can refuse to accept a bid if you can prove that the low bidder is incompetent and under legal prosecution for screwing up jobs elsewhere, but be ready to pay the lawyer and lose anyway. Once another building committee member and I drove to Boston and got a contractor removed from the list, but he was back on it the next year. The requirements go on and on and I just wonder sometimes if they do not cost us more than the subsidy is worth, even if it is 67 percent as it was a few years ago. Certainly if the constraints lead to a botched job, which has happened more than once, it was not worth it. Have you ever wondered why the church built schools like St Ann's or even Fuller are so substantial and the state funded ones fall apart? You may be right Jason, .......  but I do not agree that it is an easy one.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Cathy (Admin)
Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

28 Nov 2017, 21:52 #45

And $7,500. to come out of the Capital Projects Stabilization Fund for a feasibility study to relocate the preschool because the lease will be up at Blackburn in September 2018.  I've not seen any mention of looking for a location to relocate the school administration offices, which are part of the same lease.

(Budget & Finance, November 9, draft minutes included CC packet for 11/28)

http://www.gloucester-ma.gov/ArchiveCen ... /Item/8163

COMMITTEE RECOMMENDATION: On a motion by Councilor Orlando, seconded by Councilor Ciolino, the Budget & Finance Committee voted 3 in favor, 0 opposed, to recommend that the City Council approve 2018-SA-1 for $7,500 (Seven Thousand Five Hundred Dollars) from Account #760001-596006, Capital Projects Stabilization Fund, Transfers to Trust Funds to Account #760013-578034, Capital Projects Stabilization Fund Preschool Feasibility Study for the purpose of funding a Preschool Feasibility Study for the location of a city preschool.

DISCUSSION:

Councilor Memhard said that money is requested to be moved from the Capital Projects Stabilization Fund in order to fund a feasibility study for the purpose of exploring two potential locations to move the successful city preschool program to – either the O’Maley Innovation Middle School or Gloucester High School. In both cases, he noted, each school appears to have “ample” square footage to meet all guidelines to house a preschool, but the study will be necessary to make that final determination. He noted the lease for Blackburn Drive #2 which currently houses the city’s School Department administrative offices and the city preschool have a lease that will expire in September 2018.

Jim Destino, CAO, confirmed the lease at 2 Blackburn Drive, which houses the city’s preschool and school administration is coming up that they are looking to house the preschool at one of the two schools. He mentioned that the High School used to have over 1,380 students and now houses 850 students. He pointed out that there are entire sections of the building not being used. The city just built a new 60,000 square feet West Parish School that houses 400 students. The O’Maley Innovation School has 600 students and 200,000 square feet and also has room to possibly house the preschool. It may be a bit more expensive to renovate the older middle school which is why the feasibility study will determine which space will be more suitable, he said. Also needed to be taken into consideration, he reminded the Councilors, was the ability to accommodate drop off and pick up of these very young students. The only other option, he pointed out, would be to put out another Request For Proposal which would mean paying higher rent than they already pay. The money paid for 2 Blackburn Drive is very expensive, he said, and the Administration is looking for a more economical way of solving these issues.

Councilor Orlando stated his approbation of the Administration for seeking an alternative to renting space agreeing that the lease cost is very high.  Councilor Gilman asked how the YMCA preschool might affect the city’s preschool enrollment, although the city’s preschool offers different services; and asked about planning for possible reduction of student headcount. Mr. Destino said they are looking at that issue as well as the Head Start program at Pathways. He pointed out that it’s premature to say the new YMCA preschool will be built; if the Council does approve that, it will be taken into consideration on the size of the facility they’ll build. 
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Damon
Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 22:00

28 Nov 2017, 22:30 #46

I certainly hope they find less expensive quarters for the school administration while they are moving the preschool to city property.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Leland33
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

30 Nov 2017, 13:34 #47

gloman wrote:
battlingignorance wrote:
gloman wrote:
Damon wrote:I certainly hope they find less expensive quarters for the school administration while they are moving the preschool to city property.
Damon, there is NOTHING the state could do to satisfy your pompous ego.  It is little people like you that have fucked up our city.
Jesus, gloman. YOU calling somebody else "little people"?!  Twat.
Speaking of pompous!  
The point is damon has the answer to everything.
Still waiting for the hotel to wash into the ocean.
I was an “on the fence skeptic” about flooding.  People joked “when NYC gets flooded by the ocean” ... we’ll huricane Sandy hit lower Manhattan with 17 feet of water in the subway.  Fortunately that portion of the subway was somewhat floodproof and was back in no time.

Now I’m more believer than skeptic.  Go to the Sandy YouTube’s in NYC - Gloucester missed its punch,

It seems the Beauport has some flood design with its ground level very wide grand staircase to the second floor lobby and restaurants.

So I think by design the hotel is ready.   Who can tell “wash away ready” but I do believe Jim Davis considered. Hurricane Sandy in the hotel “not to wash away design”.

Again look at YouTube.
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Dun Fudgin
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 03:54

01 Dec 2017, 02:55 #48

Leland33 wrote:
gloman wrote:
battlingignorance wrote:
gloman wrote:
Damon wrote:I certainly hope they find less expensive quarters for the school administration while they are moving the preschool to city property.
Damon, there is NOTHING the state could do to satisfy your pompous ego.  It is little people like you that have fucked up our city.
Jesus, gloman. YOU calling somebody else "little people"?!  Twat.
Speaking of pompous!  
The point is damon has the answer to everything.
Still waiting for the hotel to wash into the ocean.
I was an “on the fence skeptic” about flooding.  People joked “when NYC gets flooded by the ocean” ... we’ll huricane Sandy hit lower Manhattan with 17 feet of water in the subway.  Fortunately that portion of the subway was somewhat floodproof and was back in no time.

Now I’m more believer than skeptic.  Go to the Sandy YouTube’s in NYC - Gloucester missed its punch,

It seems the Beauport has some flood design with its ground level very wide grand staircase to the second floor lobby and restaurants.

So I think by design the hotel is ready.   Who can tell “wash away ready” but I do believe Jim Davis considered. Hurricane Sandy in the hotel “not to wash away design”.

Again look at YouTube.
Once the entire Birdseye plant was demolished the entire site was raised 4'. It was on the same level as Commercial St., just look at the parking lot and front entrance next time you drive by and you'll see the difference.
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Leland33
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

01 Dec 2017, 16:21 #49

Thanks Dun - more to the point that storm surge is in the design of the hotel - in addition, as I said, the lobby and restsurant is on the SECOND FLOOR.

But storms in JUST the last decade that have hit: Katrina, Sandy and now a third to hit the United States with great devastation - in Peurto Rico.

Who’s to know how to design on a barrier beach for a building to survive.  Especially in a hurricane worse than Sandy.   But the hotel DID make provisions.  It was a gift to the city.

Gloman - there are plenty of one minute news reports - here’s a much longer - documentary form:

Lower Manhattan had a substantial storm surge by Hurricane Sandy ( in the documentary below - 14 feet)

Here’s the link that was intended -

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harbordog
Joined: 07 Jun 2008, 11:56

05 Dec 2017, 02:22 #50

On Tuesday December 5th @ 6:00 pm in City Hall the Waterways Board will discuss the final report by Harriman Consulting on the Harbormaster's Station and Boating Center.  The agenda is posted on the city website.

http://gloucester-ma.gov/ArchiveCenter/ ... /Item/8184
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NightStalker
Joined: 15 Apr 2006, 05:02

05 Dec 2017, 14:19 #51

nice documentary.  until it abruptly ended mid stream.    I still have little sympathy for people who are told to evacuate, that emergency services won't respond, and then laugh how they will ride it out and soon panic and cry for help.  
You think you know it, but you haven't got a clue!!
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Leland33
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

05 Dec 2017, 17:15 #52

NightStalker wrote: nice documentary.  until it abruptly ended mid stream.    I still have little sympathy for people who are told to evacuate, that emergency services won't respond, and then laugh how they will ride it out and soon panic and cry for help.  

There were several youtube copies of this documentary that cut the last minute or so including the credits.

The last scene you saw was a woman’s voice and a Birdseye view of neighborhood fires.

Then it makes a dramatic cut to the credits.  I agree it its abruptly.

Here’s a version I MEANT TO POST that includes the last scene and credits:

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NightStalker
Joined: 15 Apr 2006, 05:02

08 Dec 2017, 13:49 #53

also in that council packet was an ordinance requiring people to have a closed recycle container by 1-1-19
You think you know it, but you haven't got a clue!!
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tyu12
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 01:26

08 Dec 2017, 20:24 #54

It is my understanding that the city and the people who want to build the huge 200 unit complex have not come to a deal yet if that is the case why can't the city just pull out of the deal?
  The school dept is determined to shove two more new schools down our throats why not take down the fuller school and put the two new schools there. 
Most if not all of the utilities are already on site there is easy access to that location and no 200 units this seems like a win-win except for the taxpayers who will foot another large expenditure of the schools


I hope that the city does not go through with trying to charge walkers to use the beach if they are looking for more money from the beaches would it be possible to fill in some of the marsh across the street from the beach entrance and make room for 50 to 60 cars?


Is it really necessary to spend another 1 million dollars for a school study?
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Cathy (Admin)
Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

08 Dec 2017, 21:10 #55

NightStalker wrote: also in that council packet was an ordinance requiring people to have a closed recycle container by 1-1-19
The Council packet for the 12/12 meeting includes the draft minutes of the 11/28 meeting:

http://gloucester-ma.gov/ArchiveCenter/ ... /Item/8225

There was discussion but no consensus about how that would be implemented and the cost to the City (the ordinance currently requires the City to provide a recycling tote to every resident).  It was decided that more thought is required and the matter was continued to February 5.
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Dun Fudgin
Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 03:54

09 Dec 2017, 00:20 #56

Cathy (Admin) wrote:
NightStalker wrote: also in that council packet was an ordinance requiring people to have a closed recycle container by 1-1-19
The Council packet for the 12/12 meeting includes the draft minutes of the 11/28 meeting:

http://gloucester-ma.gov/ArchiveCenter/ ... /Item/8225

There was discussion but no consensus about how that would be implemented and the cost to the City (the ordinance currently requires the City to provide a recycling tote to every resident).  It was decided that more thought is required and the matter was continued to February 5.
The totes the city provided are too small so I bought a large barrel with cover at the Building Center. After a few weeks I got tired looking for the cover they don't put back and they actually damaged the cover. Ever since I make sure the cover is not on it when I put it on the sidewalk but make sure the material is wedged inside so it won't blow out on windy days.
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Karly
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 02:12

13 Dec 2017, 04:15 #57

From Councilor Val Gilman...

"All, the council vote on referring to administration the possibility of a walk on fee for non residents at GHB and Wingarsheek was withdrawn tonight. Thank you all for your passion and suggestions."
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tyu12
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 01:26

13 Dec 2017, 04:41 #58

Karly wrote: From Councilor Val Gilman...

"All, the council vote on referring to administration the possibility of a walk on fee for non residents at GHB and Wingarsheek was withdrawn tonight. Thank you all for your passion and suggestions."
Thank you councilor Gilman
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Karly
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 02:12

13 Dec 2017, 20:41 #59

The school feasibility study was approved to go forward at last night's council meeting also.
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tyu12
Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 01:26

14 Dec 2017, 16:02 #60

Damon wrote: I certainly hope they find less expensive quarters for the school administration while they are moving the preschool to city property.
How about adding to the Stanley Marchant building and either putting the preschool or admin there? Do you or anyone know the exact amount of kids in the preschool I had thought it is only about 80-90 but I am not positive. How many people in the school administrative off there should not be that many where they could not go to the Stanley Marchant building?
Is the school still spending thousands of dollars sent kids to Browns Mall? 
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