Maura Healey killed the gas pipeline and now we suffer.

Joined: 12:27 AM - Mar 30, 2007

10:34 PM - Dec 27, 2017 #1

Never mind that gas is less polluting than oil......so much for common sense being sacrificed for political gain.


Thanks to our do gooder Attorney General we now have the highest gas prices in the USA and we are switching over to burning more polluting oil....


https://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenrwald ... ac95a62bfa

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/11/18/m ... necessary/
You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give..
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Joined: 6:00 PM - Jun 25, 2007

3:18 AM - Dec 28, 2017 #2

I think that your statement is an oversimplification. Methane is an extremely efficient greenhouse gas.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Joined: 5:54 PM - Feb 07, 2008

8:04 AM - Dec 28, 2017 #3

Ruh Roh !!! 



Take Cover ! Polar Vortex warning from the Chief Science Officer.
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Joined: 8:06 AM - Sep 01, 2012

9:09 AM - Dec 28, 2017 #4

William, any chance of a source beyond just an opinion piece - which offers not a single source for the claims, itself?!
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Joined: 1:02 AM - Apr 15, 2006

10:15 AM - Dec 28, 2017 #5

be careful - she might sue you next!!!
You think you know it, but you haven't got a clue!!
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Joined: 11:07 PM - Apr 01, 2011

1:33 PM - Dec 29, 2017 #7

Below is a source posted by t - it shows in the chart (the graph shows no right scale???)  that natural gas has gone from about a $7 average in 1989 to about a $14 average in 2017 - which is exactly DUE TO INFLATION.

Natural gas is still clean and cheap and AG Healy’s decision to block unfriendly to the eniviroment natural gas sources such as shale and fracking was a good decision.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/n3010ma3m.htm
Last edited by Leland33 on 3:23 PM - Dec 30, 2017, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: 12:27 AM - Mar 30, 2007

9:33 AM - Dec 30, 2017 #8

You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give..
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Joined: 6:00 PM - Jun 25, 2007

10:29 AM - Dec 30, 2017 #9

I am sure the Jones act was well intended. However it does not allow delivery of domestic product including gas and oil to US ports by foreign ships. (not only not here but also not Puerto Rico where the situation is much more desperate) We can import LNG from Algeria but not from the Gulf coast. Obviously the purpose was to encourage construction and registration of ships in the US. However it has not helped and while most US owned ships including tankers are built and registered foreign, few are built here. Meanwhile we are asked to run stupid pipelines through the landscape.
I really noticed it when I took a cabin on a Norwegian tramp freighter with all my belongings from three years in Holland from Rotterdam to Brooklyn. The freighter was to stop in Boston to pick up cargo for Europe after Brooklyn but I had to get off in Brooklyn because they could not carry me on the foreign ship between Brooklyn and Boston. That meant getting stevedores to forklift my stuff to the subway, help from passengers to board elevated train, changing trains, and finally meeting family in Boston.

edit adding reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_ ... ct_of_1920
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Joined: 8:25 PM - Oct 08, 2007

2:07 PM - Dec 30, 2017 #10

Leland33 wrote: Natural gas is still clean and cheap
Cheap?  Sure.  Cleaner?  OK.  But clean?  Not at all (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11):

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels:
Coal (anthracite) 228.6
Coal (bituminous) 205.7
Coal (lignite) 215.4
Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
Gasoline (without ethanol) 157.2
Propane 139.0
Natural gas 117.0
So natural gas emits about half as much carbon dioxide as an equivalent amount of coal.  That makes it cleaner than coal.

But it absolutely does not make it clean, as it still emits absurd amounts of carbon dioxide.

Wind, solar, and geothermal are clean.  Natural gas is not.
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Joined: 3:56 PM - Jul 02, 2014

2:41 PM - Dec 30, 2017 #11

The CSO's notion that we should rethink energy policy every time we have a really cold couple of days seems sort of dorkish, but I think the President is on board so it must be OK !!!  
 wonder what the Arabia Foundation will say if we have a heat wave.

............................................
Trump Tweet, yesterday:
"In the East, it could be the COLDEST New Year’s Eve on record.
Perhaps we could use a little bit of that good old Global Warming
that our Country, but not other countries, was going to pay
TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS to protect against. Bundle up!"
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Joined: 11:07 PM - Apr 01, 2011

4:39 PM - Dec 30, 2017 #12

Martin - absoluteljy I agree solar PV, Wind (VAWT) and geothermal are far better energy sources BUT THE TOPIC was about Governor Healy “Killing the pipeline” .... here’s my complete quote you cut off:

“Natural gas is still clean and cheap and AG Healy’s decision to block unfriendly to the eniviroment natural gas sources such as shale and fracking was a good decision.”

Applied Materials (Varian) produces and sells equipment that makes PV solar cells and other applied electronic chips.  I feel that the PV solar market is in its infancy:

(8 minutes - published 9/2017)
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Joined: 12:27 AM - Mar 30, 2007

5:44 PM - Dec 30, 2017 #13

Leland33 wrote: Martin - absoluteljy I agree solar PV, Wind (VAWT) and geothermal are far better energy sources BUT THE TOPIC was about Governor Healy “Killing the pipeline” .... here’s my complete quote you cut off:

“Natural gas is still clean and cheap and AG Healy’s decision to block unfriendly to the eniviroment natural gas sources such as shale and fracking was a good decision.”

Applied Materials (Varian) produces and sells equipment that makes PV solar cells and other applied electronic chips.  I feel that the PV solar market is in its infancy:

(8 minutes - published 9/2017)
The problem is power storage when there is no wind or solar. It's a complex situation that needs to be solved. When they talk about parts of Europe being powered only by wind or solar that is mostly during weekends when industrial power is at it's low as factories are shut down. There is no free lunch yet.
You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give..
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Joined: 11:07 PM - Apr 01, 2011

8:34 PM - Dec 30, 2017 #14

CSO William - I would like to nominate Elon Musk as assistant CSO. He’ll solve the battery problem and report back to you when done.

Elon IMO is getting to be a modern Einstein.
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Joined: 3:56 PM - Jul 02, 2014

6:15 AM - Dec 31, 2017 #15

"There is no free lunch yet"



Thanks for the update, CSO !!!

When we get all "pie in the sky" about clean energy sources like wind and the sun you always bring us down to earth and remind us that these fancy pants energy ideas are just no damn good!
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Joined: 8:06 AM - Sep 01, 2012

8:46 AM - Dec 31, 2017 #16

Martin Del Vecchio wrote:
Leland33 wrote: Natural gas is still clean and cheap
Cheap?  Sure.  Cleaner?  OK.  But clean?  Not at all (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11):

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels:
Coal (anthracite) 228.6
Coal (bituminous) 205.7
Coal (lignite) 215.4
Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
Gasoline (without ethanol) 157.2
Propane 139.0
Natural gas 117.0
So natural gas emits about half as much carbon dioxide as an equivalent amount of coal.  That makes it cleaner than coal.

But it absolutely does not make it clean, as it still emits absurd amounts of carbon dioxide.

Wind, solar, and geothermal are clean.  Natural gas is not.
Geothermal is a much under-utilized source of clean (and inexpensive - after the installation, which is relatively costly) energy. It is far more prevalent in, particularly, Germany and other norther European countries. Like most things that are good.

Again - the best system in the future will be a de-centralized one, that is a mixture of sources...mostly renewables; but anyone who cares about cooking will alwasy want to cook on gas. (OK, Martin...have at that one!)
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Joined: 8:06 AM - Sep 01, 2012

8:49 AM - Dec 31, 2017 #17

William Taylor.e wrote:
Leland33 wrote: Martin - absoluteljy I agree solar PV, Wind (VAWT) and geothermal are far better energy sources BUT THE TOPIC was about Governor Healy “Killing the pipeline” .... here’s my complete quote you cut off:

“Natural gas is still clean and cheap and AG Healy’s decision to block unfriendly to the eniviroment natural gas sources such as shale and fracking was a good decision.”

Applied Materials (Varian) produces and sells equipment that makes PV solar cells and other applied electronic chips.  I feel that the PV solar market is in its infancy:

(8 minutes - published 9/2017)
The problem is power storage when there is no wind or solar. It's a complex situation that needs to be solved. When they talk about parts of Europe being powered only by wind or solar that is mostly during weekends when industrial power is at it's low as factories are shut down. There is no free lunch yet.
William would not have Henry Ford's early automobiles...only Prii (plural of Prius). Change/improvement is a gradual thing, William. Embrace that.

It is not "complex"...the solution may not be wholly within our grasp quite yet - but, no little thanks to Elon Musk and others, not far way at all.
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*t*
Joined: 12:04 AM - Aug 11, 2007

9:24 AM - Dec 31, 2017 #18

battlingignorance wrote:
Martin Del Vecchio wrote:
Leland33 wrote: Natural gas is still clean and cheap
Cheap?  Sure.  Cleaner?  OK.  But clean?  Not at all (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11):

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels:
Coal (anthracite) 228.6
Coal (bituminous) 205.7
Coal (lignite) 215.4
Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
Gasoline (without ethanol) 157.2
Propane 139.0
Natural gas 117.0
So natural gas emits about half as much carbon dioxide as an equivalent amount of coal.  That makes it cleaner than coal.

But it absolutely does not make it clean, as it still emits absurd amounts of carbon dioxide.

Wind, solar, and geothermal are clean.  Natural gas is not.
Geothermal is a much under-utilized source of clean (and inexpensive - after the installation, which is relatively costly) energy. It is far more prevalent in, particularly, Germany and other norther European countries. Like most things that are good.

Again - the best system in the future will be a de-centralized one, that is a mixture of sources...mostly renewables; but anyone who cares about cooking will alwasy want to cook on gas. (OK, Martin...have at that one!)
Real geothermal is limited to places like Iceland with big geo vents. Geothermal heat pumps are being outmoded by air source heat pumps, new ones are capable or operating efficiently at 14 below F and cost a fraction of ground sourced heat pumps. The other advantage to gas is that it is much easier to get high efficiency.  I happen to have a condensing oil boiler, but it cost twice what an equivalent gasunit would have. So not only does gas emit less CO2 per BTU it does so in a more efficient furnace, on average, than any other fuel.

I do no necessarily support totally denying gas pipelines, but I also do not support the high leverage tactics used to try and get them put through.
You also have to understand that the gas in those pipelines was never really destined for us, but for that big gas port off our shore, and on to Europe where prices are very high, and Russia is a destabilizing source of gas. SO from a geopolitical standpoint, the pipelines could be more good than bad in total.
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Joined: 11:07 PM - Apr 01, 2011

10:54 AM - Dec 31, 2017 #19

At some point in my early school days I learned if you dig a hole 20-30’ deep then borrow horizontally to make a small underground room - you’ll have a forever source of free geothermal energy. The temperature of the room will be at a natural state of 55F regardless of the outside temperature and would depend on the heat transfer capabilities of the underground walls.

I learned the 55F underground concept when my teacher (5th grade?) taught us about fall-out shelters in the late 50s.
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Joined: 12:27 AM - Mar 30, 2007

11:30 AM - Dec 31, 2017 #20

Leland33 wrote: CSO William - I would like to nominate Elon Musk as assistant CSO.  He’ll solve the battery problem and report back to you when done.

Elon IMO is getting to be a modern Einstein.
I am not betting but I think the odds favor a bankrupt Tesla in the not to distant future. As for the power wall, forget it. It is a cruel joke for the average consumer:  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophe ... 86307146e4

MIT has been working on an air flow battery since 2012 with 180 researches and they are not there yet:

"As the battery can discharge over months, the best use may be for storing electricity from notoriously unpredictable wind and solar power sources. “The intermittency for solar is daily, but for wind it’s longer-scale intermittency and not so predictable. When it’s not so predictable you need more reserve — the capability to discharge a battery over a longer period of time — because you don’t know when the wind is going to come back next,” Chiang says. Seasonal storage is important too, he adds, especially with increasing distance north of the equator, where the amount of sunlight varies more widely from summer to winter."

http://news.mit.edu/2017/air-breathing- ... -grid-1011
You make a living by what you get. You make a life by what you give..
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