Fuller Watch

Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 02:12

18 Jan 2018, 18:35 #801

tyu...Brier Neck Shores was a 40B development and needs to build 25% affordable housing.  I think it was going to be 12 units of housing total...not sure how many bedrooms, etc.  I think the City fought it but the developer won the appeal at state level due to eased zoning restrictions under 40B.
Last edited by Karly on 18 Jan 2018, 19:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007, 10:15

18 Jan 2018, 19:55 #802

https://library.municode.com/ma/glouces ... 5.11INHORE
This is the inclusionary zoning ordinance 5.11 of the GZO 
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

18 Jan 2018, 22:32 #803

tyu12 wrote: A little off topic but I noticed what looks like a big condo complex going up on the corner of Thatcher rd and Witham st. I don't know how many units but are they required to have affordable units? I also noticed a very large condo complex off of magnolia ave Kennedy rd I think, how many of those units are affordable? I had heard that the prices were very expensive for condo's but at this time I can not remember the prices I was told it was a while ago
I don’t think the Witham Rd townhouse qualify for affordable.  The east side townhouse are almost complete.  The West side that appear to be in a designated  flood zone.  This Witham townhouse development was strongly opposed by the Bell administration because of flooding - Kirk made it happen.  Damon knows more - especially what’s going on for the West side.

If you’re talking about the new dream homes on Kennedy (Magnolia) I checked them out when the first ones were ready.  I had a nice car and a person from the sales office said I could walk around.   These are very nice homes and not McMansions.

I don’t know if you were around for all the public input given to “Gloucester Plan 2000” - tons of great ideas but the one that stuck was the late Janis Stelutto, who chaired Plan 2000 -  she suggested BUILDING UP on existing buildings - like Stop & Shop and the former Ames Store and place dozens of affordable housing units.

http://gloucester-ma.gov/DocumentCenter/Home/View/827

I liked the rooftop idea and was sad when Janis passed away.  She contributed to a 70s quilt project on display at AGHs back lobby.  Ironically it’s named “ROOFTOPS”
A4D52A78-E3BA-4BEE-9348-773F2770C8AB.jpeg
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Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 22:00

19 Jan 2018, 08:01 #804

I had little involvement in the project behind Good Harbor except to support the neighborhood group that was trying to keep the buildings away from the salt marsh. When the subject first came up I thought it would never, ever, get a building permit. That is simply a crazy spot to build. However the evolution of the project shows the power of 40B. If your community has less than that crucial 10% affordable, only the local zoning board has a say in the permitting and they can be overruled by a state appeals board that will approve anything. The law is intended to curb snob zoning, but builders quickly learned to use it to bypass local zoning and environmental regulations. The aspect that frustrates me most is that "affordable" for 40B is not "affordable" for Gloucester which has below median incomes for the metropolitan area. The end result was that objections to their permits were easily overruled. For this reason alone real affordable housing that addresses our real needs should be on the top of the priority list for Gloucester.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

19 Jan 2018, 09:09 #805

The Kennedy Road homes (The Village of Magnolia Shores) are mostly 44 duplex condos. All roads, lawns and common area must engender a huge condo fee. The 40B & Gloucrster ordinance 11.5 applies. As Damon just posted “Affordable” IS NOT lower income affordable.

Someone, single parent, working at a local restaurant might be lucky to live at Power House Village PHV Ipswich an all LOW INCOME development $1100 2BR, heat and hot water plus family Y member.

GLOUCESTER NEEDS DEVELOPMENTS LIKE PHV - and maybe have a five to ten year goal of meeting the 40B 10% requirement.
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Joined: 15 Apr 2006, 05:02

19 Jan 2018, 13:38 #806

I believe that one of the Witham Street condos is "affordable" at about $350,000 or something like $150k below the others.    
You think you know it, but you haven't got a clue!!
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

19 Jan 2018, 17:11 #807

I suppose someone that meets the low income 40B requirement could “afford’” to buy if they had had an excellent credit rating, a very high down payment (40-50%) and primary residence.

But $350K. is out of reach for most for most people in the 40B income realm.

I thought that was cool to play miniature golf and go to the beach too.
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Joined: 22 Dec 2007, 08:35

19 Jan 2018, 19:06 #808

The condos being built on the old Amelia's site went for a  40b exemption? I thought it was the yet to be built units on Salah's old property that needed the 40b.
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Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 02:12

19 Jan 2018, 19:32 #809

Idk...are they both on Thatcher?  There is 
this... https://goodmorninggloucester.wordpress ... rking-lot/
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

19 Jan 2018, 20:03 #810

Yes - the 40B project is Brierneck Realty LLC, the former Sallah property.

The project on the old Amelia's site is 78 Thatcher Road, LLC - I don't remember that as going through the 40B process.  I don't know how many units they ended up putting there (6?) but if it is fewer than 8 the Inclusionary Housing Ordinance doesn't apply.
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007, 03:06

19 Jan 2018, 20:09 #811

Karly wrote: Idk...are they both on Thatcher?  There is 
this... https://goodmorninggloucester.wordpress ... rking-lot/
http://www.goodharbor.org/News/news.htm ... ion_Condos

tells the story.  This article is undated, but research shows it is from summer 2014.
It doesn't say, but as far as I remember there was never a 40B issue with the Amelia condos.   Just with the ones in the salt marsh.

peregrine
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Joined: 25 Jun 2007, 22:00

19 Jan 2018, 22:29 #812

I know zilch about the project on the lot where Amelia's restaurant was. I
am not sure there is a marsh problem on that side of Witham St. Certainly
there was already a building there.The 40 B proposal that I am familiar with
was the one on the toward Barn Road side.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?...   ..........
 George Orwell , 1984
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Joined: 21 Nov 2007, 23:02

19 Jan 2018, 23:52 #813

I am pretty positive the Amelia site was not 40 B.
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Joined: 23 Dec 2007, 03:06

20 Jan 2018, 00:48 #814

If you look at MapGeo , you see both sites have issues with wetland protection buffer, 100-year flood zone, and Category 2 hurricanes.  On the marsh side, the wetland protection caused the 40B appeal, which solves developers' problems with stupid things like environmental regulations.  The Amelia side is also noncompliant, but was probably grandfarthered in, because they're building in more or less the same footprint as the restaurant.  As for the flooding, all they need is put down a couple of feet and they're good for another 50 years.  No need to sacrifice a story to ground-level parking.  They may have a problem with maximum height, though - that is a problem that has to be solved for all building-in-new-floodplain proposals.

-- peregrine
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

20 Jan 2018, 02:01 #815

What happens to 40B/5.11 when it’s 44 duplex units going for $800K each - knock off $450K to 4 units at “The Village of Magnolia Shore”?????

================
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

21 Jan 2018, 04:40 #816

During my visit to 12 Summer Street Manchester (opposite Northeast Cleaners) in the late 90s or earlier; the 21 unit apartment house looked well maintained and 20-30 years old (at least - maybe a lot older) ).  A state grant brought funds to upgrade all kitchens and baths and to add several porticos on front.  State Sen Tarr and State House Rep. Hill were out back discussing the project.  There was plenty of open space behind the units but now it’s all gone and occupied by SEVERAL zillion dollar perfect homes.  I don’t know who acquired the land it looks kinda ridiculous knowing what it was - all in downtown Manchester.

But did the wealth TRUMP the lest fortunate - considering 12 Summer Streeet has nearly parksvand public transportation it was a win/win Another surprise was chatting to an interesting guy who was a friendly abutter who said the harbor once went up to where the apartment house was built!

I have not researched the availability or affordability of the 21 units at 12 Summer. What scares people that want genuine affordable over 200 market rate units only are nearly beginning to happen AND AFFORDABLE LATER. .  (Women and children last!) -  it looks like this site might produce results for low income housing seekers:

https://affordablehousingonline.com/hou ... s/10053380
Last edited by Leland33 on 21 Jan 2018, 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: 15 Apr 2006, 05:02

21 Jan 2018, 14:57 #817

I just seem to remember the Amelia's project when it was going through the council committees mentioned one of the units as being affordable.   Maybe they didn't go 40B but had one set aside anyway??
You think you know it, but you haven't got a clue!!
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

23 Jan 2018, 01:58 #818

Leland33 wrote: What happens to 40B/5.11 when it’s 44 duplex units going for $800K each - knock off $450K to 4 units at “The Village of Magnolia Shore”?????

================
Dang you, Leland, lol.  I got curious about Magnolia Shores and started reading, and reading, and reading ...

That property/development sure has a complex and ugly history.  Best I can tell (without any more time-sucking reading) is that property was permitted in 2007 or earlier.

http://www.gloucestertimes.com/news/loc ... 33cb4.html

Without even more research, I can't tell exactly what the ordinance was at that time.  The municode site notes that the 5.11 Inclusionary Housing Ordinance was "Adopted April 23, 1991; Amended May 27, 2008," but I don't know what the changes were.  Municode does offer a feature that shows changes, but the City does not subscribe to that service.

https://library.municode.com/ma/glouces ... 5.11INHORE

I do know that the Housing Trust was not established until 2008 and the ordinance calls for a contribution to the housing trust, so there is that.  It's likely that the ordinance was different then - who knows, it may have only applied to certain zoning districts; the number of units may have changed - dunno.

I suspect that the affordable issue is a non-issue for that development because it was permitted when the ordinance was somehow different.

That's the best I got. :-)
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Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 03:07

23 Jan 2018, 20:38 #819

Thanks for your research a Cathy. It’s interesting that Magnolia is being developed more agressiveky than the rest of Gloucester. Following Kennedy (gated) into aRyan Road turn right on Western then the next left is a 24 single family on Lawndale Circle. Then backtract on Western to where the retirement home was torn town is a new complex. An ultimate place was on Shore Drive, owned by Deaconess Hospital, which was nearly retirement homes, then for what ever reason torn down for a complex of condos and homes.

That’s about 100 luxury homes in Magnolia alone in about 10 years. Two retirement homes torn down to make way.

Now market rate luxury apartments by FMUV.
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005, 09:30

23 Jan 2018, 21:05 #820

Windover disputes review of Fuller proposal

http://www.gloucestertimes.com/news/loc ... cfa81.html

"The market-rate apartments — planned as eight studio units, 79 one-bedrooms and 113 two-bedrooms — would be owned and managed by the Dolben Company."

I'm pretty sure that is the first time that I've read or heard of studio units included in the plan.
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