Scarlet tunic ID

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Scarlet tunic ID

Bruce P.
Bruce P.

August 11th, 2011, 2:43 am #1

What is this? It's wool serge, similar in weave to battledress. King's crown Canadian GS buttons (except for the epaulets which are KC British). Collars are 7th Fusiliers. No factory markings on the inside.

Any thoughts appreciated.

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 11th, 2011, 6:56 pm #2


So the pertinent questions off the top are:

a) would anyone expect "factory" markings on a ceremonial jacket; my instinct would be to say no

b) does the pattern of jacket match that either established by orders or else known to have been worn by the 7th Fusiliers (i.e. colour of facings, style of collar, turnbacks, etc.)

c) does the insignia look like it matches the jacket - are there additional holes in the collar, for example

d) are there other holes in the shoulder straps for additional insignia there - whether or not shoulder titles were intended to have been worn, the presence and location of holes can still point to, or else discredit the notion, of certain units' insignia having been present on the jacket

e) are all the pieces original to the jacket, i.e. are the collar, cuff and shoulder straps sewn in to the lining or have they been added after the fact

f) does it look like the collars have been polished while still on the jacket - may or may not be evidence of anything, but fading underneath the insignia can also be an indication of age and how long the badges have been in place

I'll be interested in hearing from the knowledgeable on this as it looks interesting. I suppose in reality it could represent anything from a pre-1914 infantryman's duty dress, to an interwar service dress, to a 1960s Tattoo replica to a modern day costume shop knock off with whatever badges could be found added on, based on the description provided so far.
Last edited by dorosh on August 11th, 2011, 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Dorosh
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Joined: February 1st, 2006, 6:13 pm

August 11th, 2011, 7:06 pm #3

What is this? It's wool serge, similar in weave to battledress. King's crown Canadian GS buttons (except for the epaulets which are KC British). Collars are 7th Fusiliers. No factory markings on the inside.

Any thoughts appreciated.

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Bruce;

The Curator of The RCR Museum (London), may be able to help. The contact information is CLAUS.BREEDE@forces.gc.ca or by phone at 519-660-5102.

Cheers

Mark
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Michael Andrew John Reintjes
Michael Andrew John Reintjes

August 11th, 2011, 8:50 pm #4

The main issue is the use of shoulder badges as collars.The jacket is the two pocket serge for officers or senior Ncos. I,m not aware if the officers of the 7th wore anything but grenades on both the dress tunic or the 2 pocket serge. The 7th Fusiliers wore both plain grenades and the grenades with a "7" on them as collars with the cap badge miniatures used as shoulder devices. I have a lot of photos of the unit with them being worn this way as well as two jackets to the unit which today is perpetuated by the 4th Battalion The Royal Canadian Regiment. nice old turn of the century jacket though..
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Michael Andrew John Reintjes
Michael Andrew John Reintjes

August 11th, 2011, 8:52 pm #5

just to clarify,the 2 pocket serge is not a ceremonial jacket but is indeed the everyday work or service jacket of the day, This soldier would have indeed had another tunic which would be the pocketless dress jacket used for dress of cremonial purposes.
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Michael Andrew John Reintjes
Michael Andrew John Reintjes

August 11th, 2011, 8:53 pm #6

...Is it for sale?.M
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Anonymous
Anonymous

August 11th, 2011, 11:21 pm #7

What is this? It's wool serge, similar in weave to battledress. King's crown Canadian GS buttons (except for the epaulets which are KC British). Collars are 7th Fusiliers. No factory markings on the inside.

Any thoughts appreciated.

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From the 1898 Canadian Militia Dress Regulations (Officers)

Frock Scarlet Serge. - Full in the chest. Collar, cuffs, and shoulder straps of cloth of the colour of the regimental facings. A small regimental button at the top of the shoulder strap. Badges of rank in gold on shoulder straps. Collar, stand up, cut square in front, from 1 1/4 inch to 1 3/4 inch high, fastened with two hooks and eyes, with black enamelled leather tab. Two plaits on each side. Five small regimental buttons down the front. A patch pocket with pointed flap and small button on each breast. A patch
pocket with flap on each side below the waist. Patch pockets 6 1/4 inches wide, 6 1/2 inches deep. Cuffs pointed, 5 inches deep in front, and 2 inches behind. Scarlet lining. No collar badge. This jacket may be used in place of the tunic on all occasions except those of state or ceremony.

The photo (below) shows the officer wearing the above pattern and the Men are wearing the ORs pattern with 7 buttons. The blue facings denote a 'Royal' regiment. Note the use of the straw hats with pugarees and flash. This was permitted in camp only. The black armband suggests 1901 for the date of this image.

The above tunic is a good example (except for the tear in the sleeve) and probably dates from the mid-1890s and continued in use beyond 1903 - when the KC General Service buttons were introduced. As to the badges, I leave that to the badge experts.

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Clive M. Law - Service Publications
Clive M. Law - Service Publications

August 11th, 2011, 11:22 pm #8

... that was me.
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Bill A
Bill A

August 12th, 2011, 12:45 am #9

The 7th Regiment (Fusiliers) wore a pattern of collars consistent with those on the tunic. Mazeas indicates they were authorized 1885 and again in 1906.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2004, 8:58 pm

August 12th, 2011, 1:48 am #10

What is this? It's wool serge, similar in weave to battledress. King's crown Canadian GS buttons (except for the epaulets which are KC British). Collars are 7th Fusiliers. No factory markings on the inside.

Any thoughts appreciated.

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Is there a leather fob at the collar closure? They were usually installed by the original tailor/manufacturer, and were to protect the neck from being pinched or rubbed by the metal closures. Often these leather fobs contain the name of the tailor and the year that the tunic was made. I can post a picture of one tomorrow.

Dan
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