Pattern 82 E-tool Carrier Variant

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Pattern 82 E-tool Carrier Variant

Geoff Middleton
Geoff Middleton

May 27th, 2009, 2:42 am #1

Here is a Carrier Intrenching NSN8465-21-893-2151 made by Manta Industries in 10/83, which is a variant designed to carry the older e-tool as used in the P51 and P64 websets. It is not shown in the Pattern 82 guidebook, so I assume it was a stop-gap until the fancier e-tool and its carrier was ready for issue.
Front

Rear


Here is the comparison with the P64 carrier version


I have also include a photo of the venerable 1953 E-tool with integral pick, which was a pretty functional inplement in the Petawawa sand at least.


Question for the group: is the P82 e-tool still in use or is it consigned to stores as unusable? I never see any photos with troops hauling them around.

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 27th, 2009, 2:51 am #2

My understanding is that digging in Canadian training areas is verboten or at least discouraged as an environmental hazard?? I may be dead wrong on that. It may simply be that emphasis in training has shifted - exercises for our (reserve) unit has been on Three Block War in recent years, urban operations, etc. and has moved away from more 'conventional' operations.

During my basic training in the 1980s, digging a slit trench was part of the final exercise. Come to that, though, we never received e-tools but full-size pioneer tools, issued on the spot. We were training to fight the forces of the Warsaw Pact; we assaulted through a "Soviet-style trench system" before digging in to repel a Fantasian infantry attack.

Friends who went on to do their infantry training in Wainwright, Shilo and Dundurn reported the e-tool as near useless and one fellow managed to borrow one from his platoon commander and actually break it, having to to haplessly return it in such condition, the 2nd Lieutenant never having had a chance to actually use it himself, it having been a mint unissued example - probably one of the "1982 pattern" ones you speak of.



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Ed Storey
Ed Storey

May 27th, 2009, 9:43 am #3

Here is a Carrier Intrenching NSN8465-21-893-2151 made by Manta Industries in 10/83, which is a variant designed to carry the older e-tool as used in the P51 and P64 websets. It is not shown in the Pattern 82 guidebook, so I assume it was a stop-gap until the fancier e-tool and its carrier was ready for issue.
Front

Rear


Here is the comparison with the P64 carrier version


I have also include a photo of the venerable 1953 E-tool with integral pick, which was a pretty functional inplement in the Petawawa sand at least.


Question for the group: is the P82 e-tool still in use or is it consigned to stores as unusable? I never see any photos with troops hauling them around.
Yes, the Carrier you have photographed was basically an intrim measure to keep the older Entrenching Tools in use until the then-new three-fold Entreching Tool (Combat Shovel) was issued.

For the most part 1982 Pattern Web is not used much, I think mostly for training recuits and perhaps by some rear echelon units. I think the stocks are being maintained, but I may be mistaken. The 1982 Pattern Web has for the most part been superceeded by the Tactical Vest.

I believe that the 1982 Pattern Entrenching Tools are still around, the three-folds and not the old version, but as Mike said, training and combat has taken a different approach so they may not be used much. As well, even when they were in use, few people like carring and Entrenching Tool if they did not have to.

Here are some images of the three-fold Entrenching Tool or Combat Shovel and one I have on file of it being carried.

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BTW - Nice Great War blanket in your photos....



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Geoff Middleton
Geoff Middleton

May 27th, 2009, 12:24 pm #4

I took the idea from the photos you and Michael posted in the past using the standard WW2 blanket as your backdrop, but thought my great war blanket would provide an interesting touch.

My other blanket (a better example) rests on the bunkbed in great war dugout diorama of the PPCLI gallery of the Calgary Military Museum. Unfortunately it is folded so the red embroidered C Broad arrow is not visible. It pleased my Dad when I donated it, as he always said the troops in there were a little cold and could really use a blanket, as he eyed my first acquisition.

Thanks for the photo of the P82 E-tool in wear.
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Rick R.
Rick R.

May 27th, 2009, 6:26 pm #5

Yes, the Carrier you have photographed was basically an intrim measure to keep the older Entrenching Tools in use until the then-new three-fold Entreching Tool (Combat Shovel) was issued.

For the most part 1982 Pattern Web is not used much, I think mostly for training recuits and perhaps by some rear echelon units. I think the stocks are being maintained, but I may be mistaken. The 1982 Pattern Web has for the most part been superceeded by the Tactical Vest.

I believe that the 1982 Pattern Entrenching Tools are still around, the three-folds and not the old version, but as Mike said, training and combat has taken a different approach so they may not be used much. As well, even when they were in use, few people like carring and Entrenching Tool if they did not have to.

Here are some images of the three-fold Entrenching Tool or Combat Shovel and one I have on file of it being carried.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

BTW - Nice Great War blanket in your photos....


I'll second that comment -- the mech infantry guys generally (if they brought them at all) left their e-tools on the track (usually inside the ruck), while us light infantry guys clipped them to our rucks. NOBODY in the Infantry more than a couple of months ever carried one on their webbing, to my recollection (1987 - 1995, US Army).

A large minority of non-Infantry, non-Engineer types DID clip them to their webbing, on the rare occaision they had e-tools.

As for using them, occaisionally we were issued full size pioneer tools (such as in Basic) to dig fighting positions with, but most of the time we dug in with our units, we used e-tools. Generally speaking, if we had engineer stakes to prop up the overhead cover and wire to cover our front, we had pioneer tools dropped off with the stakes and wire. (Not always, though -- and schlepping over hill and dale with a duffle bag full of picks, axes, and shovels sucks. {grin})

We did get some well-appreciated Engineer support once, were they did 90% of the work in about a minute on each position with a backhoe, and the two guys in each position spent an hour or so finishing it off with e-tools.
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Steve F
Steve F

May 28th, 2009, 9:09 pm #6

My understanding is that digging in Canadian training areas is verboten or at least discouraged as an environmental hazard?? I may be dead wrong on that. It may simply be that emphasis in training has shifted - exercises for our (reserve) unit has been on Three Block War in recent years, urban operations, etc. and has moved away from more 'conventional' operations.

During my basic training in the 1980s, digging a slit trench was part of the final exercise. Come to that, though, we never received e-tools but full-size pioneer tools, issued on the spot. We were training to fight the forces of the Warsaw Pact; we assaulted through a "Soviet-style trench system" before digging in to repel a Fantasian infantry attack.

Friends who went on to do their infantry training in Wainwright, Shilo and Dundurn reported the e-tool as near useless and one fellow managed to borrow one from his platoon commander and actually break it, having to to haplessly return it in such condition, the 2nd Lieutenant never having had a chance to actually use it himself, it having been a mint unissued example - probably one of the "1982 pattern" ones you speak of.


In the mid 90's when General Cox was the brigade commander of 1CMBG there was a requirement to sleep below ground anytime we spent the night while on exercise. There was lots of digging in Wainwright in those days. I only recall using the entrenching tool once or twice in my 13 years with the Canadian infantry. The rest of the time we used full size implements that were either brought up with the defensive stores, carried in the APC or attached to your kit whether it be the rucksack or webbing when travelling light. I suppose that a motivated person could dig a usable shell scrape in soft ground in a reasonable amount of time with an entrenching tool but if the ground was hard, rocky, root infested or frozen then the e-tool was a waste of time IMO (which was most of the time). That's probably why they didn't get used much.
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