GS Shovel question

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GS Shovel question

K.James
K.James

August 22nd, 2007, 11:50 am #1

Hi all,
Are WW2 era Canadian and British GS shovel identical? I can`t find any good photo reference for the Canadian version. Also what was the overall length..were there different handle types? T style and D style?



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Ed Storey
Ed Storey

August 26th, 2007, 3:01 am #2

Here is some basic shovel information from a book by John Marchant on collecting CMP vehicles that was published in the mid-1980s.



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Kevin James
Kevin James

August 26th, 2007, 2:14 pm #3

Does that mean there are no Canadian made "T" handled shovels?...Or just that the Canadian made vehicles were issued "D" handled versions?
I`ve seen numerous photos of our troops carrying "T" handled shovels...are those shovels likely to be of British origin then?
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Steve Forth
Steve Forth

August 26th, 2007, 4:03 pm #4

I guess it would be no different than Canadians being issued with British made P37 equipment.
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Ed Storey
Ed Storey

August 27th, 2007, 1:24 am #5

Does that mean there are no Canadian made "T" handled shovels?...Or just that the Canadian made vehicles were issued "D" handled versions?
I`ve seen numerous photos of our troops carrying "T" handled shovels...are those shovels likely to be of British origin then?
Canada manufactured both 'T' and 'D' Handle Shovels. The 'D' Handle Shovels fit North American produced vehicles where as the 'T' Handle Shovels fit those manufactured in the UK. As far as CMP vehicles are concerned, the shovel illustrated with the vehicle kit for CMPs is a 'D' handle, but is referred to as a GS Shovel.

At the end of the day, as far as the Army was concerned, a shovel was a shovel.
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Gord Pringle
Gord Pringle

August 27th, 2007, 1:32 am #6

I just had a look this evening at both of my shovels which are one each T and D they are both marked BULLDOG on the spade and the D handled one on the metal bits for the handle are marked made in Canada with a Pat#. The Ds metal bits are painted black from the factory and the T is a forest green.
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Steve Forth
Steve Forth

August 27th, 2007, 4:42 am #7

Looks like I was misinformed by a fellow collector who told me that the all the T handles were British... or maybe I just misunderstood. Interesting that after all of these years since the war that there are still so many collectors trying to get the details on common items sorted out.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 27th, 2007, 7:31 am #8

Quick - name all the manufacturers of current issue shovels/spades on inventory in the Canadian Forces...

Nobody keeps track of this stuff at the time except maybe some bean counters who have to actually pay for the stuff. shrug Why would they?
Michael Dorosh
Webmaster
canadiansoldiers.com
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Steve Forth
Steve Forth

August 27th, 2007, 1:59 pm #9

You're right that nobody cares about what is being used currently, but people have been collecting WW2 equipment for many years and collectors usually want to know all of those kinds of details whereas the original users did not. It's not exactly the same thing IMO. If you look at collectors of WW2 German I think that you will find that they are generally much farther ahead of Commonwealth collectors as far as details on the common items. They don't know everything either but the knowledge base seems to be broader. At least that's my perception.
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Ed Storey
Ed Storey

August 27th, 2007, 4:50 pm #10

Steve, you just said about German WWII colelctors, "They don't know everything either but the knowledge base seems to be broader. At least that's my perception." In other words with the German collectors, more people don't know everything?

I don't think many collectors really care about who made what and how much it cost and how many were used. Most just seem to what to own the item and leave it at that. Rumour and speculation run wild with collecting militaria and unless you have actually owned or handled many different examples or have the resource material to research the answers, finding the key to some of the minutia can be difficult or downright impossible.

The G.S. Shovel question is a good example. Why both 'D' and 'T' Handle Shovels and were they manufactured in Canada? What were their applications is key as everything was manufactured for a reason just finding the reason can be difficult. Of course to add to the fun, there are different types of 'D' and 'T' Handle shovels.
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