4th Armoured Division HQ Squadrons

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4th Armoured Division HQ Squadrons

Martin Schenkel
Martin Schenkel

September 27th, 2005, 9:12 am #1

1st/5th Armoured Division mobilized with 'named' HQ squadrons (PEI Lt Horse, 7/11 H, 6th DOCRCH). These weren't disbanded and absorbed into the Division HQ until 1943. Did 4th Division have the same when it converted to armour in 1942? I can't seem to find reference to any named HQ squadrons in 4th Division.

Regards,

Martin
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Mark W. Tonner
Mark W. Tonner

September 27th, 2005, 11:39 am #2

Hi Martin;

The 4th Div did not have named HQ Sqns upon conversion to Armour in 1942. The HQ Sqns came from:

Serial 975 - No. 4 Defence and Employment Platoon - converted to - 4th Armd Div HQ Sqn

Serial 472 - No. 10 Defence Platoon - converted to - HQ Sqn, 3rd Armd Bde

Serial 474 - No. 12 Defene Platoon - converted to - HQ Sqn, 4th Armd Bde

All effective 26 Jan 42 (GO 132/42).

Cheers

Mark


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Martin Schenkel
Martin Schenkel

September 27th, 2005, 2:02 pm #3

nt
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Joe
Joe

September 28th, 2005, 7:44 pm #4

Hi Martin;

The 4th Div did not have named HQ Sqns upon conversion to Armour in 1942. The HQ Sqns came from:

Serial 975 - No. 4 Defence and Employment Platoon - converted to - 4th Armd Div HQ Sqn

Serial 472 - No. 10 Defence Platoon - converted to - HQ Sqn, 3rd Armd Bde

Serial 474 - No. 12 Defene Platoon - converted to - HQ Sqn, 4th Armd Bde

All effective 26 Jan 42 (GO 132/42).

Cheers

Mark

What do the serial numbers refer to?
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Michael Dorosh
Michael Dorosh

September 28th, 2005, 8:00 pm #5

Their activation as part of the Canadian Active Service Force.
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Martin Schenkel
Martin Schenkel

September 28th, 2005, 8:08 pm #6

I seem to recal viewing certain wartime army documents where only serials were refered to, with no unit designation. Perhaps it was also a form of code, secret or not. It must be alot easier to type Serial XXXX than spelling out Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise's), CASF every single time!

Regards,

Martin
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Mark W. Tonner
Mark W. Tonner

September 28th, 2005, 11:43 pm #7

What do the serial numbers refer to?
Hi Joe;

From 1 September, 1939 through to 1 October, 1946, all units/formations of the Canadian Active Service Force (CASF) and the Canadian Army (Active) (CA(A)) were assigned a Unit Serial Number when they were authorized and placed on Active Service. This Serial Number, more or less, acted as a unit identity code, much the same as used today. The Serial Numbers in question started with Serial No. 1 (in Sep 39) and ran through to Serial No. 8027, although some numbers within a thousand block were not used, example: numbers 3028 to 3074 were not used, nor were the block 6000 to 6999 or 7000 to 7999.

An example of the use of the Serial Numbers:

for 1st Fd Regt, R.C.H.A.

Serial No. 5 - 1st Field Regiment, R.C.H.A.
Serial No. 5A - Headquarters, 1st Field Regiment, R.C.H.A.
Serial No. 5B - "A" Battery, R.C.H.A.
Serial No. 5C - "B" Battery, R.C.H.A.
Serial No. 5D - "C" Battery, R.C.H.A.

and

for the 1st Inf Bde of the C.A.S.F.

Serial No. 30 - Headquarters of 1st Infantry Brigade, C.A.S.F.
Serial No. 30A - 1st Infantry Anti-Tank Company, C.A.S.F.
Serial No. 31 - The Royal Canadian Regiment, C.A.S.F.
Serial No. 32 - 48th Highlanders of Canada, C.A.S.F.
Serial No. 33 - The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, C.A.S.F.
Serial No. 34 - The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.), C.A.S.F.

Hope this answers your question.

Cheers

Mark

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Bill
Bill

September 29th, 2005, 10:00 am #8

Hey Mark, Any timelines on the publication of the cd for the Oraganization of the Canadian army in WW2?
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Michael Dorosh
Michael Dorosh

September 29th, 2005, 3:30 pm #9

In response to Martin's earlier comment - the serials were also used to colour code kitbags; easier to mark equipment with three or four coloured bars than to stencil ARGYLL AND SUTHERLAND HIGHLANDERS OF CANADA (PRINCESS LOUISE'S) everytime!



From CANUCK:



A colour code system was devised in which the last digits of the serial number were represented by colored bars - this system was finalized shortly before D-Day in May 1944. Unit Serial Numbers were to be painted on kit bags (and all other forms of baggage) in white (for dark coloured baggage) or black (for light coloured baggage such as khaki kit bags). Below this serial, a set of three horizontal coloured bars were used to represent the last two digits of the serial number. The top and bottom bar were to represent the "tens" digit and the middle bar to represent the "ones" digit.
Last edited by dorosh on September 29th, 2005, 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 29th, 2005, 3:44 pm #10

I seem to recal viewing certain wartime army documents where only serials were refered to, with no unit designation. Perhaps it was also a form of code, secret or not. It must be alot easier to type Serial XXXX than spelling out Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada (Princess Louise's), CASF every single time!

Regards,

Martin
We still employ numbers in the Canadian Forces; I believe they are called Unit Identification Codes (UIC)? The Calgary Highlanders, for example, are 5125, and you see that number used on various reports and things; I've seen accounts identified with the number AA5125 for example.

See my other post about unit kit bags being marked with serial numbers in 1944 also.
Michael Dorosh
Webmaster
canadiansoldiers.com
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