KMInfinity
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Joined: March 17th, 2008, 1:09 am

January 16th, 2016, 7:46 pm #11

I am on p. 421.

I adore Miller.

That is all for now.
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bilki
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Joined: March 19th, 2008, 3:46 pm

January 17th, 2016, 3:01 pm #12

KMInfinity wrote:I adore Miller.
Me, too....but he really frustrated me with what he did at the end of that chapter. At least he gave me something to think about, hehe.


I've started Caliban's War and I can see why they've included Avasarala in the show. She's a real firecracker! She says something about Holden that gave me the best laugh I've had all week.
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KMInfinity
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January 17th, 2016, 3:10 pm #13

bilki wrote:
KMInfinity wrote:I adore Miller.
Me, too....but he really frustrated me with what he did at the end of that chapter. At least he gave me something to think about, hehe.


I've started Caliban's War and I can see why they've included Avasarala in the show. She's a real firecracker! She says something about Holden that gave me the best laugh I've had all week.
See, I LIKED what he did.

I've been increasingly finding Holden to be SELF-righteous rather than righteous...

I finished the book...more after I finish my schoolwork. Duty before pleasure. :coffee:



Caliban in transit....
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bilki
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January 17th, 2016, 3:36 pm #14

KMInfinity wrote:See, I LIKED what he did.
I knew you were going to say that, lol.
[+] Spoiler
I think the greater part of my frustration stemmed from wanting to hear more from Dresden and Miller cut that conversation very short. I was so angry with him! And, something about Miller being "judge and jury" felt hypocritical but I can see how his feelings for Julie made the situation so muddy in his mind. Even now, I can sit here and get caught up in a whole inner dialogue about it, which is good.

I appreciate that Miller can make me want to hug him and strangle him at the same time. Holden is a likable guy but not nearly as interesting. I see what you mean about him being self-righteous, though I think I saw it more as him pouting because he didn't get his way.
Last edited by bilki on January 17th, 2016, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KMInfinity
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January 18th, 2016, 2:17 am #15

bilki wrote:
KMInfinity wrote:See, I LIKED what he did.
I knew you were going to say that, lol.
[+] Spoiler
I think the greater part of my frustration stemmed from wanting to hear more from Dresden and Miller cut that conversation very short. I was so angry with him! And, something about Miller being "judge and jury" felt hypocritical but I can see how his feelings for Julie made the situation so muddy in his mind. Even now, I can sit here and get caught up in a whole inner dialogue about it, which is good.

I appreciate that Miller can make me want to hug him and strangle him at the same time. Holden is a likable guy but not nearly as interesting. I see what you mean about him being self-righteous, though I think I saw it more as him pouting because he didn't get his way.
Yeah, Holden is right about Miller and Miller is right about Holden. They see each others' flaws. Usually I'm not so nihilistic and would gravitate towards Holden's POV. Did your edition of the book have the interview with the authors? They discuss this very thing.

Stargate SG1 TV series dealt with the issue of secrecy their entire 10 year run. While I do believe, theoretically, that information should be 'freed' for all, I also see Miller's point that completely spilling all information can be irresponsible, especially when it is incomplete, or out of context, or (yikes) too complex for the general public to handle. Usually I hate the idea that a 'chosen few' are best able to dealt with the intricacies of complex decisions, but Stargate effectively developed that theme well. I wonder if that will be a major focus with Avasarala's role in Caliban. The older I get, the more I doubt that the general public has a clue. (cough cough..TRUMP!) Maybe the hope of a benevolent dictatorship is worth the risk of a tyrant?

I have a bunch of pages dog eared to reread and comment on. I'll start with this: Chapter 36 ends with Miller assuring Holden that the right thing to do was throw the safe into the sun. To wipe out the protomolecule completely. I guessed immediately that meant
[+] Spoiler
Julie was somehow still alive within/inside the Protomolecule. (I wish there was a better term for the thing.) That bit deserved spoilering maybe? This is driving me crazy.


Also, I am pondering a lot concerning some of the things Dresden did say. The way Holden, and Fred, and even Miller were being pulled into his oratory, his rationalizations, I'm wondering if that isn't misdirection by the authors. The assumption stated by Dresden and accepted by everyone is that the protomolecule was sent as a weapon. Huh? 2 billion years ago? It's just a basic terraforming strategy, exactly what the Martians are doing on Mars. How is that a 'weapon?' Also, I'm waiting for someone to point out some basic SF theory about aliens that's been LONG accepted (The Fermi Paradox): One is that there's only a tiny chance that intelligent alien life coincides with us because....if it is really advanced (godlike, as they describe) they will be uninterested in us, and probably 'real estate' as we know it. (Again, Stargate explored this well with "Ascended beings.") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_par ... munication See #6.12


PS - I think, since this isn't a book club thread discussing a chapter a week or something, we should consider the thread to be spoiler-filled for the entire book. Otherwise, I'll go crazy trying to read it. :D I'll message Gate to see if she can insert a post at the top of the thread.
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bilki
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January 18th, 2016, 4:44 am #16

A spoiler notice is a good idea. This thread could be dangerous, otherwise.

wrote:I'll start with this: Chapter 36 ends with Miller assuring Holden that the right thing to do was throw the safe into the sun. To wipe out the protomolecule completely.
It was strange to me that Miller thought throwing the safe into the Sun would solve anything. Being the cynic that he was, I don't understand why he didn't assume there were more protomolecule samples than what was in that safe and what Eros had become. While trying to figure out something else, I spoiled myself on Julie becoming a part of the protomolecule. That you figured it out beforehand was some keen insight on your part.

I've grown to like the term protomolecule. I did chuckle at someone complaining about the term "vomit zombies" on AV Club.

wrote:Also, I am pondering a lot concerning some of the things Dresden did say. The way Holden, and Fred, and even Miller were being pulled into his oratory, his rationalizations, I'm wondering if that isn't misdirection by the authors. The assumption stated by Dresden and accepted by everyone is that the protomolecule was sent as a weapon. Huh? 2 billion years ago? It's just a basic terraforming strategy, exactly what the Martians are doing on Mars. How is that a 'weapon?'
It was so odd to me that they concluded that Phoebe was some kind of bioweapon. Really? It made Dresden sound paranoid and unintelligent. I was pleased when Miller commented later on (I think when he was back on Eros and communicating with Julie) that it was unlikely that Phoebe was sent as a weapon.
wrote:Also, I'm waiting for someone to point out some basic SF theory about aliens that's been LONG accepted (The Fermi Paradox): One is that there's only a tiny chance that intelligent alien life coincides with us because....if it is really advanced (godlike, as they describe) they will be uninterested in us, and probably 'real estate' as we know it. (Again, Stargate explored this well with "Ascended beings.")
I liked how in C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet the species on the other planets didn't want to have anything to do with us, hehe.
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KMInfinity
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January 18th, 2016, 6:00 am #17

wrote:I liked how in C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet the species on the other planets didn't want to have anything to do with us, hehe.
Thulcandra! The black hole no one dares approach. :firemad:

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bilki
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January 18th, 2016, 6:07 am #18

KMInfinity wrote:Thulcandra! The black hole no one dares approach. :firemad:
:rotf:

It's been 9 years since I've read the book and it still gives me a chuckle.
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Krystal
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Joined: June 26th, 2009, 4:32 am

January 20th, 2016, 8:13 pm #19

Well, I just started the book and have high hopes for it. I like the author's descriptions and the characters seem pretty interesting. I find the show confusing at times in the book will really help.
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Krystal
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January 20th, 2016, 8:18 pm #20

I read a recent article where Stephen Hawking is predicting the end of humankind in the next 100 years. He attributes it to artificial intelligence. I actually would not doubt that. And when Sarah Palin endorses Donald Trump and he actually has a chance to win the presidency I think it might be a very good thing. Except for the fact that he would probably destroy the United States and possibly start a third world war which would destroy humankind even quicker. I am really doubtful that we will make it even to the other planets let alone anywhere else in the next 100 years.
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