tgir
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 3:36 am

February 8th, 2011, 4:16 pm #21

I am sure he was an advocate for women's rights. And sincere about it, too.

And yet, instead of exploring or attempting to explore why some men rape--except for the obvious second generation of serial rapists in the first novel--surely an exception in the world of rapists, he chose to depict multiple rapes of multiple characters in very graphic detail. Lisbeth's rapist used her money to control her, to extract sex from her and finally raped her, all the while feeling quite pleased that he was making her pay with her own money to be raped by him. Until she got her revenge, of course.

Certainly I am all too familiar with the reality that rape is a common occurrence in the U.S. and world wide. Sex trafficking is not just for third world countries, either. In my supposedly very progressive state, there were recent raids and arrests. My local newspaper refers to the rape of children as sex with a child, not rape. And it seems that there's a lot of it going on in my small corner of the world. Not many convictions and not very lengthy sentences--unless the accused is not white. THAT merits a picture in the paper of the accused. And a host of letters to the local newspapers about how all of these out of towners are coming to our fair city to commit all sorts of crimes (and it is true: there is some attempt by drug dealers to expand their business to small towns and rural areas. Of course, that would mean competing with the LOCAL drug suppliers.) Long sentence, too.

He wrote a character who was small, built like a child, even a bit androgynous, until she got her implants (and really: rape victims go out and get implants just as soon as they get the ready cash?). Feisty. What a turn on to overcome such a spirited prey.

Lisbeth's revenge was rape of course. That's a whole lot of rape.

No wonder the books are so popular.
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Krystal
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Joined: June 26th, 2009, 4:32 am

February 8th, 2011, 8:04 pm #22

I guess he wrote it that way because he is not a pyschologist. Rape is about power I am told, does anyone know why men rape women, or other men for that matter?

I don't know why you are so focused on the boob job. I thought it was out of character myself, but she had changed her entire appearance in the book, wearing high shoes and a wig as a disquise. So it was part of that disquise, and not even in the movie. I didn't think getting a boob job made her less of a character nor him less of a writer.
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tgir
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 3:36 am

February 8th, 2011, 9:46 pm #23

I thought it was inconsistent, out of character and played more to men's fantasies rather than being integral to the character or story. It wasn't just a disguise: there certainly are adequate bras that would have served the purpose. And the boobs were part of the story, part of the sex in the second book. The reason the boob job was not in the film was because the actress refused.

Throughout the books, Lisbeth is often held in positions where a man or men have absolute power over her. She is helped almost entirely by men. I find this significant. The books, more than the films, are full of sexual politics.

I can't help but wonder if Larsson didn't in some way, deep deep down inside of himself, also hate women. I realize that my take on all of this is my take and I don't expect it to be seen that way by anyone else. Yes, there are many ways to exert power, including rape. I am interested in hearing about why rape is an option, from the male perspective. What is the motivation? What must be deep inside a person to allow them to use this type of force? This type of violence? Why do (some) boys/men think it is perfectly ok to force sex with a woman they know socially? Casually? Are in relationships with or have had relationships with? I am extremely disinterested in reading or watching more 'entertainment' where women are raped.
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Krystal
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Joined: June 26th, 2009, 4:32 am

February 8th, 2011, 10:21 pm #24

I don't think that much about rape. I don't think real highly of humanity. Given a chance, we'll fuck up the world and we are well on our way. Men are violent. Most religions are male dominated. Men start wars over anything they can think of, rape is just another way of controlling someone.

In many societies men have all or most of the power over women. Even today.

My favorite movies ae where the woman is a survivor. I loved Winter's Bone, Thelma and Louise (even though they went out, they did it on their own terms), Girl Interrupted.
Most of all Alien and Aliens. Weaver kicked some ass. Lisbeth is a survivor. I loved the series.

I think Larsen was a femnist. You can think whatever you want. He is gone now and that's a shame.

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tgir
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 3:36 am

February 8th, 2011, 10:34 pm #25

I don't think most men are violent. I certainly have known a number of women who are violent. I often wonder why people become violent. I also wonder a great deal about what goes through a man's/boy's head when he feels somehow entitled to have sex with/on/from some woman regardless of her feelings about the matter.

It isn't a matter of what I 'choose' to think. It is simply a matter of what I do think.
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blosslover
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 9:31 pm

February 8th, 2011, 11:27 pm #26

I tend to watch more television than movies (and I don't get HBO/Showtime), and the first movie was stronger than what I am used to seeing. I wouldn't recommend it for people who are squeamish, same with the book series regardless of the quality of the story. While they the actions are needed in the plot, some topics are just too upsetting for some. For example I read the book "The Lovely Bones", but due to the subject matter, I had no interest in the movie and the abuse was implied.
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Krystal
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February 8th, 2011, 11:36 pm #27

I think most people are violent, it is only a thin veneer of (some) societies that keep them in line. Look at how many tribal wars and race wars or entire wiping out of populations that go on all of the time.

The control/abuse of Lisbeth, I can see the CIA or Dick Cheney and/or any number of "civilized" govenments letting this go for 'national security" or "the better good".

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tgir
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 3:36 am

February 9th, 2011, 12:29 am #28

I skipped both reading The Lovely Bones and seeing the film because of the subject.

Again, I am just tired of movies with girls and women being raped, murdered or otherwise abused. Especially with no real attempt to explore or illuminate why we tolerate this, as a society. Because we do.
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Krystal
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Joined: June 26th, 2009, 4:32 am

February 9th, 2011, 12:38 am #29

Then you should skip them.

You thought the series was depressing, I thought of her as triumphant.
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tgir
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Joined: March 16th, 2008, 3:36 am

February 9th, 2011, 12:49 am #30

I never said or felt that the series was depressing.

And thank you, I do find myself more than capable of deciding what I will and will not watch.

Or read.
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