blosslover
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December 26th, 2013, 2:24 am #31

Watching the Christmas special and typing through the ads. I also watched the Matt Smith retrospective, it was so much better than the 30 minute one (11 revisited), which was just awful. Of course, one thing annoyed me how Matt has a worldwide fan base. BWHAHAHA really, Who has had a worldwide fan base for decades BBCAmerica.

For me having Gallifrey come back is weird as the relationship that the Doctor has with them isn't very positive. While I know he wouldn't want billions of children to die and the regular Gallifreyans, the Time Lords put him through a lot of ugly things. (Many of which I have little idea about, but I know that much.)

Will post more after "The Time of the Doctor" has ended in the US. It has been difficult to avoid spoilers...
Last edited by blosslover on December 26th, 2013, 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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blosslover
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December 26th, 2013, 4:11 am #32

Okay posting about tonight's episode. I was underwhelmed, really. Yes the cameo was good, and the speech, but otherwise. Considering it was old age, it was a different sort of goodbye than 9 or 10 as both went away much more quickly. That said the episode itself was very confusing, and not a good confusing. How they had the Doctor talk to the head was odd, he isn't Tom Hanks or Hamlet...

What also was weird was how come 11 didn't remember seeing 13...did he have to block that out? Also the part with him and Tom Baker at the museum. Both of those things were already ignored.
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bilki
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December 26th, 2013, 4:33 am #33

(I was reading around and typing while you posted yours, BL, but it's funny that we were both confused.)

I forgot to mention that it was so cool to see Tom Baker at the end of The Day of the Doctor. Gave me goosebumps.

The Time of the Doctor

Confused about some of what was going on here but that happens with the way Moffat writes his stories. Other than it being a love-saves-day moment, I didn't really understand how Gallifrey was able to make another crack in the Universe to send the Doctor his new regeneration. I thought those cracks were caused by something else.

I did like how they tied up the "Silence will fall" arc. It was cool that they were actually trying to prevent something "bad" from happening, rather than being the cause of it.

Being a big fan of Amy Pond, I loved her showing up just before he regenerated. That was about as close to tears I got, though Clara declaring how much she didn't want him to change did tug at me a bit.

Capaldi's intro was fun. I'm intrigued by him. Disappointed we have to wait so long to get new episodes, though I realize it will just be more Moffat nonsense.

At the moment, I feel like I enjoyed The Snowmen more than this one. Mostly because I love Jenni and Vastra, and Strax always makes me giggle.
Last edited by bilki on December 26th, 2013, 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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KMInfinity
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December 26th, 2013, 5:10 am #34

I was not impressed with the Christmas Special send-off for Matt Smith. Surfing around and most reviews seem lukewarm at best. The plot was even holier (I mean, full of holes :P ) than Moffat's usual, and seemed to be shoe-horning a lot of resolutions to past loose ends. There were some nice moments of emotional impact and the final scenes with Matt regenerating were good. I liked his line about not forgetting himself, and liked the dropping of the bow tie. I wasn't a fan of Amy Pond, so I wasn't all that heart-rent with her raggedy man cameo.

Peter Capaldi did not impress me with his appearance. I know the newly regenerated Doctor is disoriented, but I agree with others that he seemed creepy, not quirky. I know a LOT of people are looking forward to him taking over the role so I hope this was an aberration.
Last edited by KMInfinity on December 26th, 2013, 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
“You want weapons? We’re in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world!” — The Doctor, S2E2
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bilki
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December 26th, 2013, 5:58 am #35

I didn't get the creepy vibe but I noticed a number of people saying it at TWOP. I saw it more as disorientation but when I re-watched it I can see how it would be perceived as creepy with the way he gets up in Clara's face with that strange look on his face. I have to wonder, though, if it has something to do with Clara school-girl-crushing on the Doctor, and now he's in the form of a much older man. I'm guessing this puts an end to all the flirtation between Clara and the Doctor. I like Clara but wouldn't mind him getting a companion who's a bit more unique.
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blosslover
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December 26th, 2013, 6:16 pm #36

The exterior of Clara's building was Rose's building. Have they really run out of locations in Cardiff? And how Clara came back, that was strange. I think the worst hilarious comment was how K9 had better character development than Clara. Also her father was dead when she was introduced, and now he isn't.

I don't really have an opinion on Capaldi yet playing the part. I just hope the stories make more sense for his sake (and mine).

While I had a couple of issues with the 50th special, I think having that on before and after the Christmas special made the Christmas episode seem even more messed up tho I must admit the advertising that was played during the regeneration portion was annoying.

I liked the Snowmen much better too. Actually out of all the Christmas episodes, I think I enjoyed this one the least as I couldn't follow it.
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KMInfinity
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December 27th, 2013, 12:37 am #37

Bilki:
>>>>>I didn't get the creepy vibe but I noticed a number of people saying it at TWOP. I saw it more as disorientation but when I re-watched it I can see how it would be perceived as creepy with the way he gets up in Clara's face with that strange look on his face. I have to wonder, though, if it has something to do with Clara school-girl-crushing on the Doctor, and now he's in the form of a much older man.
That's a good point. Even CE was young enough you could tolerate a bit of flirting between The Doctor and the girl. This is why Donna Noble is my favorite companion in NuWho. It's not Capaldi's fault that there has been subtext flirting going on and now it seems creepy.

The majority at Gallifrey Base really liked it, confirming I am not GB material. In general, they like Moffat a lot ore that RTD.

>>>>>I'm guessing this puts an end to all the flirtation between Clara and the Doctor. I like Clara but wouldn't mind him getting a companion who's a bit more unique.
Yeah. I'll comment under Bloss's K9 > Clara comment. :D

Bloss:
>>>>>The exterior of Clara's building was Rose's building. Have they really run out of locations in Cardiff? And how Clara came back, that was strange. I think the worst hilarious comment was how K9 had better character development than Clara.
That's hysterical, because true, imo! Clara's story never made a lick of sense. Her 'impossible girl' existence was never (imo) dovetailed well enough into her human character and life (as witness her family Christmas dinner...) and so she seems very much like a plot point and not a real character. She had such potential and the souffle girl, and then it got ruined.

>>>>>Also her father was dead when she was introduced, and now he isn't.
That's what I thought---they whole leaf metaphor and story....

>>>>>I don't really have an opinion on Capaldi yet playing the part. I just hope the stories make more sense for his sake (and mine).
I agree. I want stories that make sense. I will never like a doctor as well as Tennent, and usually I am pretty able to be objective, so I don't understand all of the DT criticism. A lot of people disliked his regen story and thought RTD was too angsty, but I don't see it. Usually I can see why others my see it, even though I disagree, but I just don't even see it.

>>>>>While I had a couple of issues with the 50th special, I think having that on before and after the Christmas special made the Christmas episode seem even more messed up tho I must admit the advertising that was played during the regeneration portion was annoying.
Big big agree. I liked the 50th Anniversary show a lot, so this looks especially weak by comparison, especially since I watch it just before the Christmas special. I liked all of the past Christmas specials better than this. My favorite Matt special was the Widow, the Doctor,and the Wardrobe...being a huge Narnia fan.

I liked the Snowmen much better too. Actually out of all the Christmas episodes, I think I enjoyed this one the least as I couldn't follow it.

Mark finished the Eccleston year with me on a rewatch in September so we are ready to begin David Tennant's doctor and I'm really looking forward to it, especially since he bought me the final 'specials' for Christmas that ended DT's tenure and ends with his regen episode.
“You want weapons? We’re in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world!” — The Doctor, S2E2
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blosslover
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December 27th, 2013, 5:49 am #38

I wonder if it isn't a cultural thing…as Moff's show is more MOTW and self-contained, while in the US we tend to have more science fiction that is arced. So we have that preference unlike other people???

The actor who played Clara's Dad was completely different also.

Some of the criticism of DT I think comes as a blowback as he has such devoted fans. And many of them aren't traditional scifi audience members, so the show went extremely mainstream within the UK. Ironically tho DT is a Whovian himself, which perhaps is another issue that bugs people. (Why I don't know…then again sometimes DT does insane stuff as himself, and I wonder what he is thinking--the stuff he did around Christmas is a good example. Honestly it would be hard for me to hate someone who has said the following: "I still am a geek. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." Then again some people may not be self-aware enough or think the term geek is evil. Now it is not…seriously take the word back people…and it isn't a disrespect unless it is said by someone who uses it in a negative way not in the case when someone claims it as their own. It isn't a racial slur or some such.) In the Eleventh Hour panel during 50th anniversary celebrations, Matt talked about David and how they were looking at a wall of past companions and how David knew everyone and didn't get why Matt didn't know them.

Also I think that unlike some of the other Doctors 10 is emotional. One person I read said that he was the most human, which they saw as a negative, and which I saw as a positive. I like to be able to relate to characters and considering how important his companions were to him it made sense. They were his family and that was something he hadn't had for hundreds of years. I think people thought that the 10 regeneration was too much, too bombastic and such. Considering it was a goodbye not just for DT, but also much of the behind the scenes team, I think that choice was made intentionally. If someone had issues with his performance in that episode, well he was overcome on an emotional level (some people posted behind the scenes material and basically he was a wreck on his last day…which some may argue that he should have been able to overcome. Well that's being human, not being perfect…rather too much emotion than not enough.)

Anyway back to the episode from Wednesday night. Here is a commentary from an RTD fan comparing it primarily to TEOT, and how Moff took elements of that and put them in Matt's last episode. Not sure what I think about it…

http://kilodalton.tumblr.com/post/71238 ... doctor-aka

I liked the Narnia one...I think I'd do it the Narnia one, the Snowmen, then the Christmas Carol and this year's for Matt.
Last edited by blosslover on December 27th, 2013, 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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KMInfinity
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December 27th, 2013, 2:26 pm #39

i agree with all of your points. I don't like to generalize too much but I do think the Brits have preferred the MOTW format more, hence Moff. I also agree that DT fans have been sometimes obnoxious,m especially the 'Manny style' fangirls-with-an-i who had such crushes on him. Not sure how that's working out with Matt. I agree his personal life took an unfair hit and had an impact too. There were SOOOO many rumors and gutter press articles. So add in his true antics and stuff and it was a heady mix. It's impotant to remember that CE was there only a year, so David essentially became the NuWho standard bearer who had to face all the past Whovian comparisons.

And as far as DT's 'human' portrayal and emo stuff and 'mistakes'...I will always prefer that to a technically perfect performance. (I remember this was a topic on STNG with Data. :-) )

Thinking about the Matt VS David years, I think a lot of it has to do with the companions. I didn't like Amy or Clara much, so it's harder for Matt to make that work.

I agree with your rankings for Matt's Christmas outings. David's Christmas Invasion will always be my favorite.

I caught "Midnight" last night repeating on BBC and even as a stand-alone, without my girl Donna, it was still better than anything from the Matt years. And "Midnight" isn't even in my top ten.
“You want weapons? We’re in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world!” — The Doctor, S2E2
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KMInfinity
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December 27th, 2013, 2:38 pm #40

wrote:Anyway back to the episode from Wednesday night. Here is a commentary from an RTD fan comparing it primarily to TEOT, and how Moff took elements of that and put them in Matt's last episode. Not sure what I think about it…

http://kilodalton.tumblr.com/post/71238 ... doctor-aka
I agree with a lot of that. Mostly, the idea that Moff doesn't EARN his emotional impact. The blogger captured exactly that ida with her description of the bow-tie. It's a great scene, but afterwards (so often with Moff it's not a warm afterglow but a nagging, "wait a minute..." ) I'm thinking, every single doctor had 'signature items' that typified that doctor's persona, and no one ever made big ole deal out of that before. He's changing his entire DNA (I think) - the bow tie is not a big deal. As a metaphor it works better understated. But Moff has to drop the anvil, suck out the superficial emotion, because otherwise there IS no emotional pull.
“You want weapons? We’re in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world!” — The Doctor, S2E2
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