Trovador Ramos

Trovador Ramos

nick
nick

June 14th, 2007, 6:06 pm #1

What does TRACMA mean and when did it start?

TRACMA started in 1957 with the name IRCJK, which means International Real Combat Judo Karate. Later on it was changed to TRACMA when master (Trovador Ramos) was in Singapore. TRACMA stands for Trovador Ramos Consolidated Martial Arts and was registered in Singapore. When he came back here in the Philippines in the 1970’s, it was registered here as TRACMA but with a new meaning – Trovador Ramos Asian Consolidated Martial Arts. This was after he (Tovador Ramos) fought Bruce Lee. Many foreigners were asking what kind of a martial art is TRACMA and we always say that this is an original Asian martial art founded by Master Trovador Ramos. Then in 1999, we incorporated (the school) with my brother and sisters and changed the meaning to Trovador Ramos Academy of Consolidated Martial Arts. The former incorporators of TRACMA are no longer active and some have passed away

http://www.pinoymma.com/main/modules.ph ... int&sid=36

Among the modern ones, I have included the art developed by Trovador Ramos, TRACMA, because the practitioners make a unique public claim that the founder once sparred with Bruce Lee and beat him. They even have a picture that I have not seen. I have asked several old-timers about this and they are divided in opinion whether this actually happened or not. I have seen Tracma techniques, and they look very effective. Trovador Ramos was a strong man, and a student told me he crushed a bamboo rod with a grip. It is not as exposed as the other arts because the club caters mostly to the Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) sect. They join full-contact matches and have done pretty well in the ring.

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums ... 634&page=5

The incomparable craft of Bruce Lee’s teacher

Inquirer
Last updated 01:19am (Mla time) 01/23/2007


HE SPARRED with Bruce Lee and left a deep impression, meriting an invitation to appear with the late martial arts superstar in the blockbuster movie “Enter the Dragon.”

But Filipino Trovador Ramos, then based in Hong Kong teaching martial arts and leaving audiences in awe by breaking granite stones with his bare hands, declined Lee’s offer.

Not because the pay was small. In his supposed “Dragon” role, he would lose a fight and die, something which Ramos felt did not suit him.

Lee, however, was able to persuade Ramos to become one of his coaches and off-camera fight instructor. Were it not for Lee’s early death, Ramos would have joined him in a Hollywood movie.

Ramos moved on, returned to the Philippines and continued to propagate his unique brand of martial arts -- a mix of judo, aikido and American combat judo -- through his The Ramos Academy of Consolidated Martial Arts, or Tracma.

Now 69, Ramos is a 14th-degree red belter. A heart attack five years ago slowed him down, but he has never stopped.

“I would like to pass on to our instructors a lot more things that I know,” Master Ramos, as he is called by his disciples, told the Philippine Daily Inquirer. “I want to develop my system further.”

The movie bug did bite Ramos a bit in the late ’70s. He made several local films, the biggest of which was The Red Belt Master.

It was through those times that his stature grew. There was a story about Ramos killing a carabao with one blow during a film shoot.

Had he wanted to, Ramos could be living a luxurious life now, but he opted to share his skills, which he believes were God-given, to others.

In the late ’80s, Libyan strongman Muammar Khadafi sent a representative to Manila to convince Ramos to teach hand-to-hand combat to Khadaffi’s bodyguards.

But Ramos, after conferring with his Iglesia ni Cristo adviser, declined the name-your-price offer.

Ramos no longer dreams of earning millions. What he wants is to elevate his Tracma system into the national consciousness.

He also intends to write a book about his life, just to separate the facts and the myths about Trovador Ramos. Roy Luarca and Lito Cinco, contributors

http://business.inquirer.net/money/tops ... e_id=44984

This sounds like BS to me. Some claim he had a photo of the fight to prove it. What's the story?



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Carl J
Carl J

June 15th, 2007, 11:52 am #2

What kind of BS is '14th Degree' red belt? The Japanese arts started the belt rankoing system and the highest level is 10th Dan (degree) usually reserved for the founder of the system.The mind boggles at a 14th Dan!
Carl J 5th Dan (Honestly!)
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nick
nick

June 15th, 2007, 5:49 pm #3

yeah very weird. 5th Dan is very impressive - big respect. I think Ramos appeared as a bad guy in Deadly China Doll starring Angela Mao in 1973. He didn't look great so he would have no chance against Bruce - maybe Bolo knows Did you see his interview with Bey at his blog site? Deadly China Dolls was the first HK film that Andy Vajna produced. He was in talks with Bruce at the time of his death. I think he visited Bruce on the set of ENTER when he was filming the Cavern scene fights. Bee Chan said they were rehearsing for 3 days in Bruce's garden for them scenes and Bruce had them all storyboarded, working out best camera angles etc.. Bruce storyboarded all his fight so i wonder where the hell they all went? I haven't seen one! Not one kick from Bruce in them Cavern scenes. Another rumour is that Bruce defeated Ken Kazama in a fight. But there is a connection here. Kazama appears in When Taekwondo Strikes as the Japanese Karate man. Bruce visited the set quite a bit to see Jhoon Rhee in HK as photos prove from the set (those ones of Bruce just wearing black slacks 3 weeks or so before his passing). So they definitely met and Kazama i've heard was asked by Bruce to appear in GOD. Seems every fighter was asked to appear in that film. GM Ken Min was another i heard. Bruce may have needed those 20 floors LOL but maybe NOT hahaha. Ah the strange old days. Where is Little Saint
Last edited by pathfinder73 on June 15th, 2007, 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Carl J
Carl J

June 15th, 2007, 6:44 pm #4

I have a dvdr of Deadly China Doll (dreadful quality). Can you point out a scene where he appears?
As to Ken Kazama I'm sure he had a dojo in the U.S. so maybe Bruce knew him earlier. All this talk of fighting him is just bravado. According to Joe Lewis Bruce NEVER even sparred with his contempories. This could have been professional courtesy and respect (I'm friendly with a number of Sensei but I've never FOUGHT them) or could be that Bruce may not have held back. Great fighters (In no way am I including myself there!) have big ego's so it would have been prudent to stay friends and not enemies!
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Bruce Jensen
Bruce Jensen

June 16th, 2007, 1:00 am #5

I'm fairly certain it's not this 14th degree red belt grand poobah! What a laughable joke! As for Joe Lewis having said Bruce Lee never sparred with his contemporaries, I have my doubts about the truth in that statement, too. Louis Delgado (a tournament fighter from Joe's era who gave both Joe & Chuck Norris, among others, a run for there money) mentioned in a 1969 issue of Black Belt magazine how "baffling" it was to spar with Bruce, George Dillman has talked about sparring with Bruce (said Bruce could hit him 3 or 4 times before he could hit Bruce once), even Chuck Norris has kind of changed his story in recent years & said he sparred with Bruce, too. Bill Wallace mentioned in one of his columns for Black Belt that good old Bob Wall told him Bruce never sparred, but Bill sounded like he had his doubts about that. Ridiculous stuff, we all know Ahna Capri's footage includes Bruce doing some light sparring with "The Legend In His Own Mind" himself (Bob Wall, that is).

I know it's common for fighters to have ego/insecurity issues, but does that explain not thinking before you speak? Don't these guys realize other people who trained with Bruce are saying different things? Not to mention evidence to the contrary captured on film, Mr. Wall? Never sparred... except with Bob Wall, Chuck Norris, Dan Inosanto, etc., etc. ... even Joe Lewis once said they did "theoretical" sparring or some such thing.
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Carl J
Carl J

June 16th, 2007, 9:19 am #6

Yes, it certainly is. Seems strange that Lee had all those respected names around him yet would never 'engage' in a few sparring matches (excepting his own students), especially as he was so confident in his abilities. If he did spar I for one would have loved to see him him take on Lewis/Stone or Norris.
There was of course a story that Lee fought Ryan O'Neal (the actor) who was supposed to be a good boxer. I don't if it's true but Lee was supposed to have decked him with no problems. I suppose we'll never truly find out and just have to rely on testimonies, rumours and myths!
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Joined: June 16th, 2005, 5:49 am

June 16th, 2007, 10:17 am #7

goes something like "O'neal still has a back bad from Bruce sidekicking him into a trailer"

Regards
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Carl J
Carl J

June 16th, 2007, 6:21 pm #8

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Bruce Jensen
Bruce Jensen

June 16th, 2007, 11:38 pm #9

goes something like "O'neal still has a back bad from Bruce sidekicking him into a trailer"

Regards
Just a demo. I don't remember whether it was in Tom Bleecker's book or his '78 Black Belt magazine yearbook article, but he wrote about introducing Bruce to O'Neal & Bruce demonstrating both his speed & power on an initially doubtful O'Neal. O'Neal was holding a kicking shield or some other kind of pad when Bruce kicked him into a trailer. Dan Inosanto also mentioned this incident in one of his books, saying he'd heard it from a "very reliable source" (Bleecker?).
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