Joined: 1:06 PM - Nov 12, 2017

8:37 PM - Sep 24, 2018 #191

[quote="matthewpolly"]
Dr. Langford stated that it was the night of Lee's death at his home that Linda asked him, "Was my husband a philanderer?" The question indicates she was not aware of any affairs prior to discovering where her husband was the night of his death. In her first book, she states it was until that night that she had any thoughts that he might have been unfaithful. When I spoke to her, she remained unconvinced that Bruce and Betty were actually having an affair.
[/quote]

These lines would confirm what i thought on her since about 10 yeras after i became a Lee fan and saw/read many documentaries/books. In the late 90´s (when no Ebay or Amazon was around) i tried to get any book or documentary about Bruce.
Since Bruce´s death Linda spoke and wrote many things, when he was alive, there is not a single word of her when she spokes to anyone. The first time she spoke in public was shortly after Bruce´s death.
Seems like she was this typical housewife always at home, a little bit like John Lennon´s first wife Cynthia, only at home, had no clue what her Johnny was doing when he was outside (what Paul McCartney just explained 1-2 weeks ago in a show).

[quote]
What we know is Betty and Bruce broke up and then he got back together with her prior to his death. By all accounts, she was delighted he was back in her life. So at this moment in time, she wouldn't have had a motive to kill him. I'm not saying it is impossible—crazy things happen in relationships all the time—but it is highly unlikely. Since it is impossible to know what exactly happened, the best we can do is work with probabilities. There is no evidence that Bruce was killed and no evidence that Betty had a reason to want Bruce dead, quite the opposite.[/quote]

Ok let´s put it this way:

1) if it is like you wrote, then she would have absolutely no motive i agree and i am sure anybody would agree.

2) if Bruce again wanted to broke up after reunion she would have a motive, and i am sure she would never tell this to anyone (that Bruce wanted to leave her a second time)

What i was asking myself (maybe i find something in your book about it, i am still reading and do it chronological not from page 50 to 30 etc.) if Bruce had a best friend, like Butch and Sundance, like a brother he would talk about anything, including his girls. If this guy was around (in the 50´s i would be Hawkins Cheung i guess) i would guess if someone could tell us what was going on in his women life, it would be this best friend. I mentioned the story of my best friend with his affair in 2013, he and me always talked about anything when it comes to girls/woman/relations/affairs etc. and helped each other.
But maybe Bruce was in these tings a lone wolf and talked to nobody about it.
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Joined: 5:04 AM - Jan 24, 2018

8:49 PM - Sep 24, 2018 #192

Too bad that Unicorn Chan died, otherwise we would have someone to interview about this.

Bruce still spoke to him even after the Fist of Unicorn controversy.

The last time that they spoke was three days before Bruce died. Unicorn was working in the Philippines, Bruce called him and told him about his headache problem.
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Joined: 11:43 AM - Jul 16, 2003

9:59 PM - Sep 24, 2018 #193

matthewpolly wrote:
JKD54 wrote:
Matthew Polly wrote:

I also agree that Bruce would have driven over to Betty's. The only other possibility is he drove home first and then jogged over to Betty's apartment building that was only a few blocks away. I am still unclear on what happened to Bruce's car after he died at Betty's apartment (supposing that he drove to Betty's.)
Did you happen to ask Betty if she had her own car at the time?  That would be useful information.

If Bruce was at Golden Harvest Studios in the morning and then went straight to Betty's, he could have jogged there. It is known that Bruce jogged to the funeral of Yip Man in December for example. It seems unlikely though. It's about 3.5 miles from GH to Betty's place, and he would have been drenched in sweat by the time he got there. Of course he would have taken a shower at Betty's. But what clothes would he have changed into to go to dinner that night?  He would have been wearing the same clothes he wore at Golden Harvest that morning, and jogged in them. Also keep in mind. Bruce's body was found wearing platform shoes. Raymond Chow and George Lazenby were expecting Bruce to join them for dinner at the Miramar Hotel, which is about 5 miles south of Betty's place. Obviously it did not seem like they were expecting to have to drive over to Betty's place to pick them up. So, it would further seem that Betty and Bruce were expected to get to the Miramar on their own (thus, almost certainly by vehicle).

If Bruce was driving his car that day, he could have taken George to lunch after the morning meeting at Golden Harvest, then afterwards drove over to Betty's place for the afternoon. Raymond came over to Betty's at around 6:00 pm, and left sometime after 7:00 pm to pick up George for dinner. After waiting for Bruce to show up, Raymond finally leaves George at the Miramar to go to Betty's place. George then has to make his own way back to the Hyatt, which was in the Sha Tin district (the only Hyatt at the time, opened in 1969). It would have taken George about 1.5 hours to get back to the Hyatt (factoring in waiting for the bus, and any transfers). By the time George got back to his hotel, the press had already found out about Bruce's death.
Betty told me that everyone knew her around town because she was owned a Ford Mustang. So yes, she had a car.

Andre Morgan told me that Bruce drove away from Golden Harvest in his car. Perhaps he went to lunch first with Lazenby or perhaps Lazenby has the day wrong. The rest of your timeline fits more or less with mine.

The question is what happened to Bruce's Mercedes. If he drove it over to Betty's, he certainly didn't drive it home. Did someone else? There are no reports of his Mercedes at Betty's apartment. Was it there the next day and no one noticed? Or did someone drive it home that evening? Or did he drive home first, after he left GH or after he finished lunch with Lazenby, and then walk over to Betty's? This is one of the mysteries of the last day I was most frustrated by.
I have the same questions. The official version was Raymond went to Cumberland Road then drove Bruce to Betty's then later left to meet Lazenby. Andre said that Bruce drove away from the studios which sounds right and went to Betty's so what happened to Bruce's car? Who picked it up? Betty should know if you are still in contact. 

Regarding a motive - the large insurance policy taken out just prior to his collapse on 10 May.

"Mr. Chow suggested that I might leave Mr. Lee alone sleeping." Betty Ting Pei at Inquest - very strange remark if true IMO!



Lazenby said he rang. Betty said she rang. Chow? I think all 3 claimed they did LOL.
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Joined: 3:19 AM - Jul 24, 2015

1:32 AM - Sep 25, 2018 #194

[quote]Matthew Polly wrote:

Betty told me that everyone knew her around town because she was owned a Ford Mustang. So yes, she had a car.

Andre Morgan told me that Bruce drove away from Golden Harvest in his car. Perhaps he went to lunch first with Lazenby or perhaps Lazenby has the day wrong. The rest of your timeline fits more or less with mine.

The question is what happened to Bruce's Mercedes. If he drove it over to Betty's, he certainly didn't drive it home. Did someone else? There are no reports of his Mercedes at Betty's apartment. Was it there the next day and no one noticed? Or did someone drive it home that evening? Or did he drive home first, after he left GH or after he finished lunch with Lazenby, and then walk over to Betty's? This is one of the mysteries of the last day I was most frustrated by.[/quote]


Ah...thanks Matt. That helps. I can understand how Bruce may have jogged to Betty's place, since that way no one would see his Mercedes parked at the apartment. (unless he was able to park his Mercedes in the rear of the apartment? In which case it probably wouldn't have mattered so much). Given the context of that day, it still feels more likely he was using his car to get around. But who knows.

It would be nice to figure out whether Bruce ever stopped off at home that day. What we really need is an hour by hour timeline of the last 24 hours of Bruce's life :-)

The question of what happened to Bruce's car is a good one. I recall his red Mercedes is shown in the driveway in the footage taken from his house in the documentary, Bruce Lee: the Man, and the Legend, taken either just before or just after the funeral. If Bruce took his car to Betty's on the 20th, maybe Raymond drove it back to Bruce's home later. Chow himself had a Mercedes.
"All type of knowledge ultimately means self-knowledge"
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Joined: 11:43 AM - Jul 16, 2003

6:35 PM - Sep 25, 2018 #195

A couple of excerpts from 'The Last Days of Bruce Lee' by Matthew Polly.

"After the meeting, Bruce swung by Raymond Chow’s office to say that he wanted Lazenby in Game of Death. Chow suggested they all go out to dinner to formalize the deal. Bruce returned to Morgan’s office. He pulled out his bag of hash and offered some to Andre. They both had a nibble. Bruce and Andre were supposed to take George out to lunch, but Bruce had other plans and canceled. He wanted to visit Betty Ting Pei’s apartment for a “nooner.” The studio’s driver took Lazenby back to his hotel. Bruce promised to be back at the studio in the afternoon to settle how much money they were going to offer Lazenby.

Bruce jumped into his Mercedes and drove away. He arrived at Betty Ting Pei’s second-floor apartment at 67 Beacon Hill Road around 1 p.m. "

"Having been tagged out so quickly, Raymond Chow stopped taking press calls and tried to regroup. Betty was left alone in her apartment to face the media. She made the foolish error of doubling down on the initial fabrication. “On Friday night when he died I was not at home — I had gone out with my mother,” she claimed to reporters. “I last met him several months ago when we came across each other in the street.” Bruce’s older brother, Peter, supported her story and dismissed The China Mail’s allegations as “fantasy.”

To contradict her assertion, the tabloids interviewed Betty’s neighbors, who confirmed that Lee had been a regular weekly visitor to her apartment for months prior to his death. The China Star ran a double-entendre headline: “Betty Ting Pei’s Fragrant Chamber Killed the Dragon.” 

https://www.theringer.com/movies/2018/5 ... thew-polly
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

7:53 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #196

I have the same questions. The official version was Raymond went to Cumberland Road then drove Bruce to Betty's then later left to meet Lazenby. Andre said that Bruce drove away from the studios which sounds right and went to Betty's so what happened to Bruce's car? Who picked it up? Betty should know if you are still in contact. 

Regarding a motive - the large insurance policy taken out just prior to his collapse on 10 May.

"Mr. Chow suggested that I might leave Mr. Lee alone sleeping." Betty Ting Pei at Inquest - very strange remark if true IMO!

[img]http://i66.tinypic.com/9rmyhd.jpg[/img]

Lazenby said he rang. Betty said she rang. Chow? I think all 3 claimed they did LOL.
[/quote]

Interviewing Betty is not a simple process, alas.

Money is always a motive in suspicious death cases. The beneficiary of the life insurance policy was Linda, not Raymond or Betty. Bleecker implies something more nefarious in his book, which is part of the reason I dislike it and him so much.
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

8:06 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #197

[quote="JKD54"]
[quote]Matthew Polly wrote:

Betty told me that everyone knew her around town because she was owned a Ford Mustang. So yes, she had a car.

Andre Morgan told me that Bruce drove away from Golden Harvest in his car. Perhaps he went to lunch first with Lazenby or perhaps Lazenby has the day wrong. The rest of your timeline fits more or less with mine.

The question is what happened to Bruce's Mercedes. If he drove it over to Betty's, he certainly didn't drive it home. Did someone else? There are no reports of his Mercedes at Betty's apartment. Was it there the next day and no one noticed? Or did someone drive it home that evening? Or did he drive home first, after he left GH or after he finished lunch with Lazenby, and then walk over to Betty's? This is one of the mysteries of the last day I was most frustrated by.[/quote]


Ah...thanks Matt. That helps. I can understand how Bruce may have jogged to Betty's place, since that way no one would see his Mercedes parked at the apartment. (unless he was able to park his Mercedes in the rear of the apartment? In which case it probably wouldn't have mattered so much). Given the context of that day, it still feels more likely he was using his car to get around. But who knows.

It would be nice to figure out whether Bruce ever stopped off at home that day. What we really need is an hour by hour timeline of the last 24 hours of Bruce's life :-)

The question of what happened to Bruce's car is a good one.  I recall his red Mercedes is shown in the driveway in the footage taken from his house in the documentary, Bruce Lee: the Man, and the Legend, taken either just before or just after the funeral.  If Bruce took his car to Betty's on the 20th, maybe Raymond drove it back to Bruce's home later. Chow himself had a Mercedes.
[/quote]

Ha! On the last 24 hr timeline. You keep screwing mine up by interviewing Lazenby lol.

So I think Lazenby is wrong. I don't believe Bruce would have gone out to lunch with him and then agree to do dinner as well. He was crazy busy at this point in his life and Lazenby wasn't that big of a deal.

Here's my timeline:
A. Early morning: Bruce writes letter to Adrian Marshall at home.
B. 9:30-ish: Bruce drives to G.H.
C. 10am-ish: Bruce has meeting with Lazenby and Andre Morgan.
D: 12pm: Bruce drives away from Golden Harvest. Lazenby claims they had lunch. Morgan says they didn't. I trust Morgan more... so
F: 12:30pm: Either (1) he goes home, kisses his wife and tells her his alibi for the rest of the day/evening, and then jogs over to Betty's place after Linda leaves for her lunch date or (2) He drives directly to Betty's. I'm inclined towards #2.
E: 1pm-6pm: He spends the afternoon with Betty. This is a big chunk of time. Other than the obvious it's not clear why he didn't come back to G.H. as he had promised Andre Morgan he would for an afternoon meeting. Chow later claimed he went over to Bruce's house at 2-3pm for a long script meeting. I'm pretty certain this is B.S.
F. 6-7pm. While hanging with Raymond and Betty, Bruce performs scene after scene from Game of Death, causing him to feel tired, faint, and complain of a headache.
G. 7:30pm: Bruce lies down with a headache. Raymond leaves for dinner.
H. 8:30-9:30: A couple of calls go back and forth between Raymond and Betty until Betty realizes she can't rouse Bruce. Raymond rushes over to his apartment.

And then the rest is fairly well known as far as timeline is concerned. They call her physician, then the ambulance, etc.
F:
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

8:08 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #198

I'm inclined to believe that Bruce drove his Mercedes to Betty's. The ambulance driver mentioned that he saw a third "young" man in the apartment when he arrived, who has never been identified. I believe it was either an employee of G.H., who Raymond had called to help move Bruce or it was Betty's younger brother who she had called in a panic. I surmise that whoever that young man was, he was the person who drove Bruce's Mercedes back to his home.
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Joined: 1:06 PM - Nov 12, 2017

8:18 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #199

[quote="matthewpolly"]
The ambulance driver mentioned that he saw a third "young" man in the apartment when he arrived, who has never been identified. I believe it was either an employee of G.H., who Raymond had called to help move Bruce or it was Betty's younger brother who she had called in a panic. I surmise that whoever that young man was, he was the person who drove Bruce's Mercedes back to his home.
[/quote]

Would be good to know how that young fellow was.
This is a little bit like the so called Babushka Lady in the JFK assassination, to this day nobody knows who that woman in Dealey Plaza was...
PS: Yes there is a woman named Beverly Oliver who claims she was it. But Gerald Posner convinced me she wasn´t it, simply because she was just 19 in 1963, and this Babushka Lady clearly was middle aged.
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Joined: 3:19 AM - Jul 24, 2015

12:55 AM - Sep 27, 2018 #200

[quote]Matthew Polly wrote:
So I think Lazenby is wrong. I don't believe Bruce would have gone out to lunch with him and then agree to do dinner as well. He was crazy busy at this point in his life and Lazenby wasn't that big of a deal.[/quote]

Ok, that seems reasonable. You could be right, and George might be mistaken about that day. I will just offer a final defense for why I think George did have lunch with Bruce. George had been spending the better part of three days with Bruce, doing lunch, going over to his house, meeting Linda and Brandon, etc. They bonded (no pun intended) immediately over their mutual interest in the writings of Krishnamurti. Bruce took a liking to George and wanted him in Game of Death. Bruce paid for a new suit for George, plus gave him $10,000 to hold him for the movie. They were discussing ideas for GOD almost non-stop for three days. George says Bruce would phone him at 3:00 in the morning just to tell him about an idea he had and get his feedback. So, even though George was not a big star, Bruce really wanted him for GOD. It would not be unlikely or unusual that Bruce could have had both lunch and dinner with George on the same day (it probably wasn't even the first time), especially since George was leaving the next day (Saturday) back to London. They likely wanted to cram as much time in together as possible. George wouldn't be able to come back to Hong Kong until Sept. or Oct. (George's daughter Melanie was born September 13th).

Bruce was actually not that busy during this time (or at least that week). He had long finished ETD, was not shooting anything else, even GOD (although he was doing a little editing at GH). He did go on HK TVB on July 5th. But other than that, Bruce had no real pressing obligations, at least not until he had to fly to LA on August 3rd to start promotion for ETD and meet with Adrian Marshall. In fact, in the meantime, he seemed to have some extra time to spend with Betty, as we now know.
"All type of knowledge ultimately means self-knowledge"
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