Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

1:48 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #171

[quote="FormlessOne"]
[quote="matthewpolly"]
[quote="a1z1"]
Mr Polly - can you tell me, did you find many art work, drawings done by Bruce lee in your research. ?
Many have said he drew all the time .
[/quote]

He did draw frequently. He took art in college and supposedly was pretty good, although I didn't see any of that work. There are examples of his drawings of fight scenes for Enter the Dragon. Mostly stick figure stuff. The same in his notebook treatment for Northern Leg, Southern Fist. I'd say he mostly sketched or doodled rather than actually drew pieces of art. But it is possible there are more elaborate drawings by Bruce that I simply haven't seen. Based on what I saw, I'd say he was a pretty good artist but not spectacular.
[/quote]

Hey Matt, hope all's well with you.

If you're familiar with The Tao of Jeet Kune Do, that Warrior-Sage it presents a great sketh at the very beginning of the book was drawn by Bruce.

Not sure how to add an image to this site, so here's a link to that image:

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/taoofje ... 1368161098

Here are some others. Enjoy.

https://hubpages.com/sports/Lost-Sketch ... -Bruce-Lee

As for Bruce's cooking, what Jesse said was that sometimes, while waiting outside of Ruby Chow's for Bruce to finish his chores, Bruce would come out with some Chinese food he'd cooked; that Bruce was a great cook (Glover, p. 17).
[/quote]

I hadn't seen those drawings before. I appreciate you sharing the links. If they are indeed drawn by Bruce, then he was better than I gave him credit for. Not genius, perhaps, but comic book artist level.

Thank you for finding the Jesse Glover quote. I had forgotten it. The question is: Did Bruce really cook those dishes he gave Glover? Or did he grab them from Ruby Chow's kitchen and tell Glover he cooked them? The reason why I ask is because here is the quote from Linda Lee's "The Man Only I Knew," pg. 148.

"He [Bruce] had a Chinese passion for rice—but he couldn’t boil water and I would make it for him; when I say that, I mean he could not cook. For instance, on one occasion when I was away for a day or so, he existed on nothing but marshmallows. In Hong Kong, he also developed a passion for Shredded Wheat. He often used to waken me up at two o’clock in the morning and ask me to go downstairs and prepare him a bowl of Shredded Wheat."

Linda rarely if ever writes and says anything even remotely negative, even in a joking way, about Bruce's abilities, so when she does I tend to believe her.
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Joined: 12:49 AM - Aug 19, 2018

1:53 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #172

[quote="matthewpolly"]
Lots of people want to believe that Bruce was killed, including some of his family members. I spent a lot of time researching this.

(A) There is no evidence. Both the police and the coroner didn't find any. So either they missed it or they were part of some humongous conspiracy.
(B) There is no motive. Raymond needed Bruce alive to help sell Enter the Dragon. Golden Harvest owned Game of Death and needed Bruce alive to finish it. Bruce was always threatening to leave Raymond, but he never did. Raymond believed he could always convince Bruce to come back. Betty was clearly deeply in love with Bruce. His death ruined her career and nearly her life. Why would she do something like that to someone she loved?
(C) This is just a gut feeling, but I met both of them and neither struck me as killers. Liars, yes. Murderers, no.
(D) He collapsed twice (May 10 & July 20, 1973) and suffered from cerebral edema in both cases. So the theory would have to be that they tried to kill him once on May 10, failed, then succeeded on July 20. Betty wasn't involved with Bruce on May 10 and had no access, so it would have had to be Raymond alone or with another accomplice on May 10 and then he used Betty on July 20. A lot of moving parts to keep quiet for 45 years.
(E) I talked to Betty for 15 hours. I don't think she's capable of keeping a murder conspiracy secret for 5 minutes let alone 45 years.
(F) I tried but could not find any type of poison that causes only cerebral edema but no other physical damage which would be obvious during an autopsy or a blood test in 1973. This idea that the mystical Orient was filled with secret, undetectable poisons (an argument made by Ed Parker) is hogwash, the stuff of 1980's ninja movies.
[/quote]

Yep, if anything, Raymond Chow had posed a far far greater financial threat to Shaw Brothers - not only after Bruce came on board, but far more so, after his passing.

No one saw fit to have him knocked off.

Also, it's not as if Bruce had been the only star who could be quite the headache to deal with.

One of the various other big money makers of that time, of several that cone to mind regarding the following, is Wang Yu - he was a huge star who was also quite the prima donna in his own right - and he used to be with Shaw Brothers before he went elsewhere - no one bumped him off  for being a headache and or when his huge box office dollars left Shaw Brothers.
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Joined: 5:04 AM - Jan 24, 2018

2:00 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #173

[quote="FormlessOne"]
No one saw fit to have him knocked off.
[/quote]

Except for the film company who he wanted to sue - Sing Hoi (for trying to trick people into thinking that he was acting in Fist of Unicorn).

Fred Weintraub, in his memoir, mentioned that Bruce was gaining a reputation for being a bully both on and off set.
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

2:01 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #174

[quote="dragonb"]
So, this "Heat Stroke" theory does have merit, being the two hottest days of the year, had similar effects on Lee. Matthew Polly, I ask, is there any absolute proof Lee had his sweat glands removed? Would something such as this be included in an autopsy report, especially since it was just before he died? The physician who performed this procedure could have also been contacted, if it took place.
[/quote]

Yes, I have a medical report from the doctor who performed the surgery. The hospital also wrote a letter to the life insurance company who was investigating Lee's death--American International Assurance. Bruce was admitted to Canossa Hospital on November 14, 1972 and operated on November 15 under general anesthesia by Dr. Otto Au and anesthesia given by Dr. J.J. Park. Bruce was discharged on Nov. 16. According to the doctor's letter, "Excission of axillary sweat glands was performed under general anesthesia. The post-operative course was uneventful except there was a small haematoma formed under the left axilla. 10 c.c. of liquid blood was aspirated and subsequently this area became indurated. Three injections of Ledercort were used to soften the scar."

Aside from that, the doctor's gave Bruce advice on acne treatment and instructions to gain weight. Bruce had originally complained to the doctors about acne, weight loss, and excessive sweating.
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

2:07 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #175

[quote="Hai_Tien"]
[quote="FormlessOne"]
No one saw fit to have him knocked off.
[/quote]

Except for the film company who he wanted to sue - Sing Hoi (for trying to trick people into thinking that he was acting in Fist of Unicorn).

Fred Weintraub, in his memoir, mentioned that Bruce was gaining a reputation for being a bully both on and off set.
[/quote]

Bruce didn't bully people weaker than him, he got into fights with his bosses, like Weintraub, who didn't do what Bruce wanted, like fire the screenwriter of Enter the Dragon. Bruce's attitude irritated a lot of people above him, but no one I can think of had the motive to kill him and the power to cover it up for 45 years.
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Joined: 12:49 AM - Aug 19, 2018

2:11 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #176

[quote="matthewpolly"]
[quote="FormlessOne"]
[quote="matthewpolly"]
[quote="a1z1"]
Mr Polly - can you tell me, did you find many art work, drawings done by Bruce lee in your research. ?
Many have said he drew all the time .
[/quote]

He did draw frequently. He took art in college and supposedly was pretty good, although I didn't see any of that work. There are examples of his drawings of fight scenes for Enter the Dragon. Mostly stick figure stuff. The same in his notebook treatment for Northern Leg, Southern Fist. I'd say he mostly sketched or doodled rather than actually drew pieces of art. But it is possible there are more elaborate drawings by Bruce that I simply haven't seen. Based on what I saw, I'd say he was a pretty good artist but not spectacular.
[/quote]

Hey Matt, hope all's well with you.

If you're familiar with The Tao of Jeet Kune Do, that Warrior-Sage it presents a great sketh at the very beginning of the book was drawn by Bruce.

Not sure how to add an image to this site, so here's a link to that image:

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/taoofje ... 1368161098

Here are some others. Enjoy.

https://hubpages.com/sports/Lost-Sketch ... -Bruce-Lee

As for Bruce's cooking, what Jesse said was that sometimes, while waiting outside of Ruby Chow's for Bruce to finish his chores, Bruce would come out with some Chinese food he'd cooked; that Bruce was a great cook (Glover, p. 17).
[/quote]

I hadn't seen those drawings before. I appreciate you sharing the links. If they are indeed drawn by Bruce, then he was better than I gave him credit for. Not genius, perhaps, but comic book artist level.

Thank you for finding the Jesse Glover quote. I had forgotten it. The question is: Did Bruce really cook those dishes he gave Glover? Or did he grab them from Ruby Chow's kitchen and tell Glover he cooked them? The reason why I ask is because here is the quote from Linda Lee's "The Man Only I Knew," pg. 148.

"He [Bruce] had a Chinese passion for rice—but he couldn’t boil water and I would make it for him; when I say that, I mean he could not cook. For instance, on one occasion when I was away for a day or so, he existed on nothing but marshmallows. In Hong Kong, he also developed a passion for Shredded Wheat. He often used to waken me up at two o’clock in the morning and ask me to go downstairs and prepare him a bowl of Shredded Wheat."

Linda rarely if ever writes and says anything even remotely negative, even in a joking way, about Bruce's abilities, so when she does I tend to believe her.
[/quote]

Lol, I was thinking the same thing about Bruce's cooking - being he was quite the fibber, he may very well not have cooked those dishes - ha, perhaps he was giving Jesse left overs, lol.

Reminds me - I used to work in an traditional Asian restaurant as a kid - SOME of the waitresses used to get into quite a fight over people's left overs.

The food was that good.

While one time, as The Chef was transferring this beautiful giant Red Snapper from his pan to a plate over on a table, he tripped and it fell into a garbage can in between the stove and the table.

He takes it out of the garbage, clears off the coffee grounds, cigarette butts, etc., covers it in that rich delicious sauce he used to prepare, and sends it out.

Sometime later, that plate returned with nothing left but what looked like a giant comb - that Snapper's skeleton, lol.

But anyway, perhaps Bruce's "great dishes" had been nothing more than just one more of his many fibs, lol.
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

2:16 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #177

Great story. I'm sure far worse has been done in restaurants than drop a dish in the trash lol.

And yes, it wouldn't be the biggest fib Bruce ever told if Glover's memory is correct and Bruce told him he cooked those dishes. Either that or Bruce was fibbing to his wife for nearly a decade so he wouldn't have to cook for the family. Ha! Now there is a thought.
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Joined: 1:06 PM - Nov 12, 2017

2:22 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #178

[quote="matthewpolly"]
Lots of people want to believe that Bruce was killed, including some of his family members. I spent a lot of time researching this.

(A) There is no evidence. Both the police and the coroner didn't find any. So either they missed it or they were part of some humongous conspiracy.
(B) There is no motive. Raymond needed Bruce alive to help sell Enter the Dragon. Golden Harvest owned Game of Death and needed Bruce alive to finish it. Bruce was always threatening to leave Raymond, but he never did. Raymond believed he could always convince Bruce to come back. Betty was clearly deeply in love with Bruce. His death ruined her career and nearly her life. Why would she do something like that to someone she loved?
(C) This is just a gut feeling, but I met both of them and neither struck me as killers. Liars, yes. Murderers, no.
(D) He collapsed twice (May 10 & July 20, 1973) and suffered from cerebral edema in both cases. So the theory would have to be that they tried to kill him once on May 10, failed, then succeeded on July 20. Betty wasn't involved with Bruce on May 10 and had no access, so it would have had to be Raymond alone or with another accomplice on May 10 and then he used Betty on July 20. A lot of moving parts to keep quiet for 45 years.
(E) I talked to Betty for 15 hours. I don't think she's capable of keeping a murder conspiracy secret for 5 minutes let alone 45 years.
(F) I tried but could not find any type of poison that causes only cerebral edema but no other physical damage which would be obvious during an autopsy or a blood test in 1973. This idea that the mystical Orient was filled with secret, undetectable poisons (an argument made by Ed Parker) is hogwash, the stuff of 1980's ninja movies.
[/quote]

These are of course very strong and solid arguments!

But what do you think about the possibility i wrote on page 15? I copy it over here:




The best way to kill someone is not by killing him through violence (punches, kicks, stabs, bullets, pioson, etc.), it is to use a weakness which he might have.

Now it´s getting very difficult to me to put in into words for english speaking people, i try my best:

Example 1)
If a man has a weak heart (a pacemaker for example) he is vunerable to certain things. So every person which has knowledge about his heart problem (trusted people) can provocate a heart attack or heart failure if they do some special things. And if they do it that smart way, nobody would expect it was a murder, brought intentionally.

Example 2)
If a man has some of his sweat glands removed it´s the same. Of course it is not the same as having a heart problem, but a human being with less sweat glands is more sensible to heat than "normal" people.
Reason: If it s very hot your body starts to sweat to cool down a little bit, bring the temperature down. But a person with less sweatglands (especially on such an importante place like under the arms where you sweat VERY much) can not cool the body down like a person with all sweat glands.
So it´s much easier to provocate the person with removed sweatglands suffering a heatstroke if you are smart and know what to do. Just make sure he sweats very much and give him some water/soda´s with less "vitamins" and he can get a heatstroke faster as someone who can sweat normal.

When i say "vitamins" it´s very hard to explain in english. You know water consists of stuff like Calcium, Magnesium and other stuff, this is the energy for your body if you drink it.
But you can remove those stuff from the water (i don´t know how is the technical term for this process, it takes out the energy of the water, you can drink and drink and it doesn´t have any effect).

I really hope you understand what i mean...i tried my best to explain it in english. :-D

Like i said i agree 100% with you and Dr. Hunter there is no evidence or clue Lee was poisoned by toxic stuff.
But people which were close to him, people which knew about his removed sweat glands could have use this "weakness" to provocate a heatstroke.
If he really was killed, than i would suspect it was on this way, not by toxic stuff, undetectable poison (Parker) or Dimak etc., but by using the knowledge about his removed sweatglands (= he can not sweat like a normal person to cool down his body when there are very hot temperatures).



Cheers :-)
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Joined: 1:17 AM - Jun 18, 2018

2:48 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #179

I was fascinated by the idea. It'd make a cool Sherlock Holmes episode. Maybe they turned off the air conditioning in the dubbing room on purpose! Maybe Betty's apartment was kept at a really high temperature and they didn't give him enough to drink!

So your idea gets you around the lack of evidence objection, but it still has some old problems and some new ones.
1) Who knew about the surgery? It has to be a very small list of people. Linda. His man servant Wu Ngan. Would he tell Raymond? Doubtful, but possible. Maybe Betty, maybe not.
2) Of them, who knew anything about heat stroke and how it can kill? This gets it down to very few if any in 1973. Linda quite pre-med after her freshman year in college. Wu Ngan wasn't a medical expert. Would Raymond understand the dangers of sweat gland removal and be able to concoct such a plan? No way in Betty's case.
3) If any remain, who had motive and opportunity to use his vulnerability to heat against him? The only person who had the opportunity on May 10 and July 20 is Raymond. So we get back to the final problem, why would Raymond want his most valuable asset dead? And we have added a bigger problem. Was Raymond Chow an evil medical genius who could concoct a murder based on using the removal of Lee's sweat glands against him?

I'd say, "Good TV, bad journalism."
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Joined: 12:52 AM - Nov 12, 2015

7:21 AM - Sep 24, 2018 #180

Hey Matthew, thanks for keeping the thread rolling after this long. I have a fresh batch of questions to ask, but I'll keep it brief for now: By any chance did you uncover evidence of Bruce keeping concubines around and/or using the services of sex workers often, especially in his later years? If yes, was Linda not only aware of this behavior but tolerated it as well?

I ask mainly because I always had the impression Linda and Betty Ting knew each other even before the latter met Bruce whilst filming FOF. In fact, Betty's main job would've been to keep tabs on Lee.
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