Bruce's grandparents?

Bruce's grandparents?

Joined: April 17th, 2018, 4:06 pm

May 24th, 2018, 3:01 pm #1

Can anyone shed any light on the lives of Bruce's grandparents?
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Joined: November 12th, 2017, 1:06 pm

May 29th, 2018, 1:00 pm #2

Just a little bit.

Back in 2001, i was able to have a little E-Mail talk with Bruces brother Robert. He shared his e-mail adress back then in the Temple of the Unknown Forum or Divine Wind i can t remember exactly.

I wrote him i am German and very interested about Grace Lees german background.
My english back then was very lowsy, so it was very difficult for me to write with him.
But i can remember he answered positiv on the question if his mother Grace was half german or not.

I know there were some rumours in the last 3-5 years that Grace was not half german but half british, but since Robert by himself wrote me in 2001 she was half german i believe him.

About the german side:

It s no way to proove anything, but i have a story for you which is might be true:

Back in 1906 there was a german catholic priest in China. He made Grace s mother pregnant and Grace was born in 1907.
The priest was already back in Germany when Grace was born, and Grace s mother married a chinese man named Ho, who adopted Grace so she became Grace Ho.
They didn t thell Grace anything about who her real father was until she was a little older.
Robert wrote me in 2001 that even his mother never met or saw a foto of her german father, she didn t even know his name.

This is might be true.

PS:
Jim DeMile again pointed out in in interview from July 2016 "The Bruce Lee no one knows":



that Bruce was actually 1/4 German and not English.
DeMile said you could find that german blood in Bruce when he was training. He said he was always happy to train people in Germany, because Germans are very structural and see anything through the eyes of an engineer , the same like Bruce when he was training.
DeMile made a comparation with Italy, he said the Italians are not as serious as Germans, they like Party and it was always funny to train with them.
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Joined: April 17th, 2018, 4:06 pm

May 29th, 2018, 3:03 pm #3

Thank you for getting back to me. Most illuminating. 
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Joined: January 17th, 2014, 1:19 am

May 29th, 2018, 5:56 pm #4

"He said he was always happy to train people in Germany, because Germans are very structural and see anything through the eyes of an engineer , the same like Bruce when he was training.
DeMile made a comparation with Italy, he said the Italians are not as serious as Germans, they like Party and it was always funny to train with them."

This is such BS
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

May 29th, 2018, 9:13 pm #5

If you would like to get a sense for the maternal side of Bruce Lee’s family, a great place to start is with a book by Bruce’s distant cousin Eric Peter Ho, titled Tracing My Children’s Lineage (University of Hong Kong, 2010). While many people take on a family tree projects, few of them are likely to produce a nearly 400-page book published by a university press. Through his mother Grace, Bruce was a descendent of the large and ethnically diverse Ho-Tung Bosman clan, a highly influential and prestigious Hong Kong family. In this sense, Bruce’s maternal family falls into a Kennedy or Rockefeller kind of territory. This is evident in not only the impressive power player biographies of the family members that are profiled in Eric’s book, but also in just how little attention is given to Bruce. Despite the extensive and detail-oriented research that is presented in this volume, the family’s relationship to Bruce Lee—a global icon who has statues in his image on four different continents—is mentioned only once, as a sort of bemused side note.

Turn the book over and the back cover has an image of Sir Robert Ho Tung—Bruce’s great uncle—walking with (and seemingly giving counsel to) Mary, the Queen of England, at the British Empire Exhibition in 1924. On one hand, Robert was a highly successful businessman and noted philanthropist, someone akin to Hong Kong’s version of Andrew Carnegie. At 35, he was the richest man in Hong Kong, and would be successful in a variety of lucrative ventures throughout his lifetime. However, Robert was more than just a savvy businessman, but also a notable player in regional politics, such as his funding of Sun Yat-sen’s revolution to overthrow the last Imperial dynasty in China. Years later, as Japanese aggression loomed in the run-up to World War II, Robert traveled throughout China in an effort to maintain the fledgling Chinese Republic. Not only did he meet with Sun Yat-sen and Chiang Kai Shek, but he traveled to distant areas to meet with regional warlords and advocate (in vain) for unity.

Robert’s parents were Charles Maurice Bosman, a Dutch entrepreneur and Lady Tze, a Chinese woman who had literally been “sold down the river” in Shanghai as a teenage girl. (Her family was in the silk business and had used her as capital to solve debt problems after a blight killed their mulberry trees.) If Bruce Lee had been the grandson of Robert, there would be little speculation of his ancestry. But Bruce’s grandfather—Robert’s brother Ho Kom-tong—was the curveball within this particular generation of the Ho-Tung Bosman Clan.

There is a telling photo of Robert and Ho Kom seated next to each other in their later years, which is fascinating for how completely different they look from one another. This has long caused speculation over Ho Kom-tong’s true paternity, and due to the corresponding dates in which Charles Bosman was away from Hong Kong around his birth, it is suspected that he was the offspring of an affair that Lady Tze had in that time period. As a result, it is widely accepted that Ho Kom-tong was 100% Chinese.

To make matters even more interesting, Ho Kom-tong had 29 children between one wife and 13 concubines. His section of the genealogical map isn’t so much a family tree, as it is a sprawling vine, which runs exceedingly horizontal until it gets to Bruce Lee’s mother, Grace Ho Oi-yee



In his book, Eric Peter Ho deems Bruce Lee’s mother to be “the final piece of the colorful jigsaw of Ho Kom-tong’s family,” citing her as the offspring of Ho Kom-tong’s mistress in Shanghai, believed to be a Eurasian woman named Cheung King-sin. For unknown reasons, Grace was raised in Hong Kong with her aunt Clara Ho Tung (Robert’s wife). At the age of 18, Grace became smitten with Hoi Chuen from her orchestra seat at the opera, and eloped with him much to the dismay of her family.

Twelve years later she was in San Francisco giving testimony to her background and preparing to bring her son, a four-month-old Bruce Lee, home to grow up in Hong Kong.

Furthermore, a close reading of Bruce’s 1941 immigration documents suggests that Grace did in fact know the identity of her real mother. When asked more questions by immigration officials about her parents, Grace states specifically that her mother had no Chinese blood and that she had passed away seven years earlier in Shanghai. In terms of both timeline and locations, this makes clear that Grace is not referring to either Cheung or her childhood caretaker Clara Ho Tung, and that the “Shanghai mistress” was most likely a full-blooded English woman.

Still, there is a point of historical circumstances that needs consideration: Was Grace lying to U.S. Immigration officials in light of the looming wartime atmosphere of 1941? Even as America would not officially declare war against the Axis powers for another eight months, were tensions already high enough that Grace would be hesitant to state certain family origins, such as German?

Noted Chinese-American historian Philip P. Choy is dismissive of this scenario: “I do not think it would have been an issue at that point in time. The general population was not that politically conscious yet in the spring of 1941. These types of interviews were serious business, and there was deliberate entrapment by the Immigration Department to deny the Chinese from immigrating.”


http://fightland.vice.com/blog/was-bruc ... sh-descent
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

May 29th, 2018, 9:27 pm #6

Hoi Chuen Lee
Chinese: 李滿船 (海泉), Hebrew: הוי צ'ואן לי
Also Known As: "Lee Moon Shuen Lee Moon-Shuen"
Birthdate: February 4, 1901 (64)
Birthplace: Shangcunzhen (formerly Kong Mee village?), Jun'an, Shunde, Foshan, Guangdong, China, 528329 
Death: February 7, 1965 (64) 
Hong Kong
Immediate Family: Son of Father Of Hou-Chuen Lee and Mother Of Hoi-Chuen Lee 
Husband of Private 
Father of Private; Peter Jung Sum Lee 李忠琛; Private; Bruce Lee and Private 
Brother of Fun-li Lee 
Occupation: Cantonese opera singer, actor
Managed by: Christine Marcella DeVillier - L...
Last Updated: May 23, 2018

https://www.geni.com/people/Lee-Hoi-Chu ... 2121350765
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

May 29th, 2018, 9:36 pm #7

Kom Tong Ho
Chinese: 何甘棠 (棣生)
Also Known As: "何啟棠"
Birthdate: September 16, 1866 (83)
Birthplace: Hong Kong 
Death: January 14, 1950 (83)
Immediate Family: Son of Charles Henry Maurice Bosman and 施氏 Shi Sze 
Husband of Private; ukn (English) ukn and Edith Ho 
Partner of CHEUNG King Sin; Private; Yuet Wo Ho; Private; Tak Yin Ho and 7 others 
Father of Private; Private; Private; Private; Private and 27 others 
Brother of Sir Robert Hotung 何東; HO Fook 何福; 何柏頤 HO Pak Ngan and 何啟佳 Walter Bosman 
Half brother of Sui Ting Wong; Pak-Kuen Ho; Private; Alexander Rudolph Forbes (Alec) Bosman; Irene Maud Bosman and 3 others 
Managed by: Private User
Last Updated: May 23, 2018
https://www.geni.com/people/HO-Kom-Tong ... 3030026182
  • Ho Kom-tong (1866–1950) was a younger maternal half-brother of Robert Hotung's. The son of a Chinese father, he was a prominent businessman and philanthropist who succeeded Ho Fook as Head Compradore at Jardines. He had 12 wives and reportedly more than 30 children, one of whom was Grace Ho Oi-yu (何爱瑜) (b. 1907 d.1996), a Eurasian and an adopted daughter, who went on to become the mother of the famous martial artist and actor Bruce Lee. Ho Kom-Tong's last mistress was a Eurasian woman by the name of Cheung King-sin (張瓊仙)[17](b. 1866 d. 1960).[18][19][20] Kom Tong Hall, the former Hong Kong residence of Ho Kom-tong, now houses the Dr. Sun Yat-sen Museum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hotung
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Joined: November 12th, 2015, 12:52 am

May 30th, 2018, 11:05 am #8

At least personally, I'm not so much interested in Bruce Lee's ancestry (It's kinda obvious that he isn't quite fully Chinese, the European traces have always been pronounced), and more interested in hearing about the out-of-wedlock children he had. I kid, of course, but if the recent articles on Polly's book are anything to go by, anything is possible at this point.
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Joined: April 17th, 2018, 4:06 pm

May 31st, 2018, 2:28 pm #9

Some fantastic responses - very  much appreciated!!!
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

June 1st, 2018, 5:38 pm #10

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