Joined: July 25th, 2015, 1:24 pm

September 14th, 2018, 3:21 pm #31

[quote="badger01j"]
[quote="a1z1"]

Chuck Norris really praises Bruce lee in his books, "one of the strongest men he knew". "a small man that could easily defeat a giant with skill and highly developed Ki" "extremely capable martial artist" and so on. I remember reading also "Some suspected that Bruces well known steroid use killed him" ... but that could be the cortisone steroid injections that he took for his back. I do not remember him mentioning Anabolic steroids in his book.
[/quote]

Well, to me, when a martial artist and physical trainer talks about 'steroid use' they are not going to be talking about cortico-steroids, which are not anabolic. But here's the exact quote. I don't think Chuck was sophisticated enough or had sufficient medical background experience to realize that 'cortisone' is a type of steroid though a non-anabolic kind.

“Others suggested that Bruce's well-known experimentation with steroids may have led to his death”

To be honest, I can't really tell if Norris is saying HE was aware of the experimentation, or if he is basically quoting people like Bleecker. You might infer by the use of the word 'well-known' that it was well-known to Norris, otherwise he could have simply said 'experimentation with' and left that qualifier out.

At any rate the 'others' who have suggested it (Bleecker) talks about both and he does consider the cortico-steroids the major culprit from what I read. So there's that.

I think Chuck is not being precise and is actually talking about anabolic steroids because as a layperson he would be thinking of those as dangerous. Corticosteroids are not really thought of as dangerous by most people, though there are side-effects.

To go back on track I think BL used a combination of a pre-programmed 'kill word' which would cause an internal cascade of neurochemicals and hormones and instant 'rage' similar to the apocryphal type mentioned as 'mothers lifting cars off of their children', and he was harnessing this in addition to the performance-enhancing effects of anabolics to increase his hitting power and thus fighting ability. It's a theory...based on real events. :)

YMMV
[/quote]

Why consider Chuck a lay person. He was a high level martial artists and he was also close enough to Bruce and the rest of the MA community. He must have known about Bruces back problem. However I do see what you are saying.....
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 19th, 2018, 12:49 am

September 16th, 2018, 12:05 am #32

The following reminded me of some of points of interest to some on here, being discussed on this thread - it's a very interestingly insightful book review of Ted Wong protogé, Teri Tom's "The Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do."

It's review number 50 or 60 or so, on the following link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/0804836 ... geNumber=7

Enjoy the challenging insight...

_______________

QUOTE:

"Good intention, but falls short" - By Rick Bulwiczon August 17, 2009

I bought this book with great anticipation, but was severely disappointed. Teri Tom studied with Ted Wong (no disrespect to Sifu Wong) for a few years and thinks she's an authority on JKD? Mmmm...

I've studied Jun Fan and JKD for 19 years, with direct students of Bruce Lee from Seattle, Oakland, and L.A. eras. Ms. Tom has A LOT to learn.
This book covers good, basic information about stance and the straight lead, although it is incomplete. It's all stuff I've seen for years in Black Belt and Inside Kung Fu magazines. Nothing new except for the notes on Bruce's research from his books.

Although Tom claims JKD is not modified Wing Chun, sorry... that's what it is. The JKD stance is a Wing Chun right-facing forward stance with a raised heel and forward attack weight. Nothing more. See the book "Advanced Wing Chun" by William Cheung on page 21 for the proof. The JKD stance has all of the triangulation, loaded hip, and internal alignment of the WC stance. Of course if you asked her, she wouldn't have any idea of what you're asking about. You cannot fully understand JKD unless you have the Wing Chun principals! That's why Bruce could make other things work - he used the WC principals to improve and integrate other techniques. This is also why there aren't many great JKD fighters... they don't have any understanding of the WC attributes that made JKD work for Bruce Lee. Pat Strong and James Demile (both Seattle students) told me how Bruce Lee came back to Seattle after moving to Oakland to show them how he modified his stance. He MODIFIED the WC stance, he DID NOT invent a new one based on boxing and fencing as Tom indicates. That's absurd.

Tom also claims Bruce abandoned Wing Chun. He didn't... it abandoned him. Bruce didn't finish his WC training. When he went back to Yip Man years later, he was refused because he had disrespected traditional martial arts openly. So Bruce had to integrate other things into his art to make up for the shortcomings he never learned. This is documented and common knowledge.

The straight lead is also a plain ol' traditional Wing Chun punch (Chun Chuie). Bruce did not invent either the JKD stance or straight lead by combining boxing and fencing. They have existed for a hundreds of years before he was born within Wing Chun. He had notes on boxing in books. I have notes on different religions in my books. It doesn't mean I practice all of them. They are REFERENCES. Bruce didn't need books on WC because he studied it for years under Yip Man and knew it. There also weren't any WC books available at that time. That's why Teri Tom finds so many boxing books and notes at her disposal. But she takes this as being all Bruce was interested in. Is this what she considers research?

Teri also failed to include some of the mechanical principals in describing the lead punch. She left out the immovable elbow, hammer principal, final power (fa-jing), penetration, back/shoulder sealing and unity, sinking weight, small arc (cam) principal, non-intention... I can go on. Her footwork is also an incomplete mess... no spring energy, hip loading, critical edge, start speed, short arc, tilted hip... I can rip this book apart page-by-page, but space is limited here. She even mistakes low-line hooks for a Straight Blast in one of the Bruce documentary films. C'mon, you don't know what a straight blast is? (page 179) She also doesn't understand falling step power, stating to land the punch BEFORE your foot hits the ground. The power comes up from the ground when you contact it through the locked knee.

Even her "interview" with Ted Wong is skewed. She blatantly asks questions that point into the direction of her beliefs. They are clearly manipulative in nature.

This book basically contains beginner info written by a beginner. Nothing replaces a good instructor, especially a bad book. Her knowledge of Wing Chun is so superficial that she makes bad comparisons between WC and JKD. How can you criticize and art you barely have any knowledge of? Teri Tom needs to take the blinders off and gain a little humility.

END QUOTE
__________________
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 19th, 2018, 12:49 am

September 16th, 2018, 12:30 am #33

Two more articles of great interest...

1 - Physics of Explosive Energy or Fajin, by Johnny Kuo of I-Liq Chuan
https://combativecorner.wordpress.com/2 ... rgy-fajin/

2 - The "woo way" of taijiquan by Dan Djurdjevic of The Fajin Project

http://www.wayofleastresistance.net/201 ... n.html?m=1
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

September 16th, 2018, 2:32 pm #34

[quote="a1z1"]

Why consider Chuck a lay person. He was a high level martial artists and he was also close enough to Bruce and the rest of the MA community. He must have known about Bruces back problem. However I do see what you are saying.....
[/quote]

By 'layperson' which was not clear I meant 'medically'. Chuck was probably not acquainted with medical terms or names of prescription drugs, so I am doubting he one the difference between portico-steroids and anabolic steroids.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

September 16th, 2018, 2:50 pm #35

I don't think either of the articles posted by FO are any explanation of Fajin. Imagine the force created when you push down on the hinges of a step ladder. Those are designed to lock a step ladder in the open position but you can get the ladder almost open and then push them down to lock it. 

What happens when you do that is the ladder can open with a bit of a 'shock' movement and because the hinges are rigid and inelastic, there is no push back force from the ladder. It opens and there is no rebound.

Now, imagine that the force from a movement comes up from the ground through the foot and leg and then through the pelvic region and the spine is in a bit of a 'coiled spring' configuration ready to store then release the energy into the forearm, hand and then the punch such that when it is 'issued' the force can not recoil and it all goes into the target.

This is somewhat of a primitive explanation but it is a way to visualize it. The key components are 'no windup', no recoil, suddenness, and the issuing of the force in a 'spike' as opposed to a build up prior to the strike and then a drop off of force. A 'normal' punch which is a bit like a push has the energy spiking just prior to hitting and then it drops off as the fist or body part doing the striking, will actually drop off and some of the power will rebound into the striker.

Fa-jin or 'internal power' is the opposite, aiming to generate the power spike as the hit is being impacted and going inside the body of the target person with almost no rebound. It is a short generation of power (i.e. no pulling back to gain space for momentum). There are probably several ways to accomplish this and it is supposedly very hard to do against a moving opponent, because it is problematic to develop the timing of the movement. It is usually done in a demo mode.

The usual use of it would be to be able to hit from wherever the hand is with little or no wind-up, and the force comes from the body through the forearm (in a punch) with no real involvement of the shoulder. 

Western boxing talks about it with the idea of the 'falling step' and sitting down into one's punches. In addition to that method the JKD idea that BL tried to explain to his top students would involve the other concepts, the hammer principle, shoulder sealing (to eliminate recoil) and the speed of non-intention. He wanted to make his first contact with the opponent so shocking that there was no hope of recovery to prevent the killing blow that would follow (according to Pat Strong).

Hope this helps.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 19th, 2018, 12:49 am

September 16th, 2018, 8:29 pm #36

[quote="badger01j"]
I don't think either of the articles posted by FO are any explanation of Fajin. Imagine the force created when you push down on the hinges of a step ladder. Those are designed to lock a step ladder in the open position but you can get the ladder almost open and then push them down to lock it. 

What happens when you do that is the ladder can open with a bit of a 'shock' movement and because the hinges are rigid and inelastic, there is no push back force from the ladder. It opens and there is no rebound.

Now, imagine that the force from a movement comes up from the ground through the foot and leg and then through the pelvic region and the spine is in a bit of a 'coiled spring' configuration ready to store then release the energy into the forearm, hand and then the punch such that when it is 'issued' the force can not recoil and it all goes into the target.

This is somewhat of a primitive explanation but it is a way to visualize it. The key components are 'no windup', no recoil, suddenness, and the issuing of the force in a 'spike' as opposed to a build up prior to the strike and then a drop off of force. A 'normal' punch which is a bit like a push has the energy spiking just prior to hitting and then it drops off as the fist or body part doing the striking, will actually drop off and some of the power will rebound into the striker.

Fa-jin or 'internal power' is the opposite, aiming to generate the power spike as the hit is being impacted and going inside the body of the target person with almost no rebound. It is a short generation of power (i.e. no pulling back to gain space for momentum). There are probably several ways to accomplish this and it is supposedly very hard to do against a moving opponent, because it is problematic to develop the timing of the movement. It is usually done in a demo mode.

The usual use of it would be to be able to hit from wherever the hand is with little or no wind-up, and the force comes from the body through the forearm (in a punch) with no real involvement of the shoulder. 

Western boxing talks about it with the idea of the 'falling step' and sitting down into one's punches. In addition to that method the JKD idea that BL tried to explain to his top students would involve the other concepts, the hammer principle, shoulder sealing (to eliminate recoil) and the speed of non-intention. He wanted to make his first contact with the opponent so shocking that there was no hope of recovery to prevent the killing blow that would follow (according to Pat Strong).

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Good post. Really enjoyed it.

At the same time, the point behind my posting those two articles was for their heavy emphasis on demystifying some of the ignorance, secrecy, and mysticism one too often encounters within martial art - especially within "jkd."

How?

By what means?

Via the over-emphasis in both those articles, on the need to educate one self in plain old, everyday concepts and principles.

Concepts and principles that anyone can easily take up the study of, and make one's own guide, in the pursuit of desired results.

The study of plain old every day Biomechanics.

So that when observing a desired result, and or even when reading a description of one, one not only knows how to look at it, but how to work on making it one's own.

By the way, spring load was touched on in that second article.

Though, not as a means of dropping one on the spot.

Again, great post. Really enjoyed it.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

September 17th, 2018, 1:59 am #37

FO for more information you can search YT for 'Mike SIgman' and Internal Strength. He claims that what he put in those older videos and the example of a step ladder are no longer how he thinks it works, but I'm not sure if he means that or is trying to distance himself for some reason. He is the person who provided me much of the information on the 'store and release' the use of 'ground path' and the idea that it is the pelvic floor muscles (maybe the same ones that women use to build up their strength (kegle exercises)?) that are involved in using the 'tantien' and controlling the pelvis and hips.

If you look at the pelvis mechanically and envision the limbs as being able to 'flip' or flail when the pelvis rotates with speed, you can get a sense of how it could work. Chen X. Wang demonstrates this in his YT videos and he was Mike Sigman's primary instructor (loosely speaking). The Chen clan is not about to give out the 'real' truth about IS to a non Chen person let alone a Westerner.

To me, some of the secrets of type of 'short power' would involve strengthening the accessory muscles so they can contribute to and carry the power of the larger muscles. So for the hips you want to seek out and toughen all of those, and we see BL doing the 'dragon flag' exercise in that famous picture and in the pics from EtD we see the hyper developed muscles around his hips (TFL, Gluteus medius, quadriceps), and I'm sure he had a very powerful iliopsoas muscle also. In the upper body you'd work on all the accessory muscles for the scapula, the rhomboids, the infraspinas and teres as well as the deep muscles that stabilize the scapula, then in front the serratus and the obliques, and the abdominals. I've already mentioned the importance of the wrist and forearm muscles and how there are specific ones which hypertrophy when you practice the wing chun wrist tilt punch with resistance.

One of the comments made about BL is he tried to develop the muscles that were weak even in strong men.

In addition one of the muscles that got developed for me was the intercostals an the diaphragm from doing a lot of bicycling up hills such that my shirts no longer fit me. This development was even greater than in the period of my youth when I was doing powerlifting twice a week.

Anyway just some more info for you.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 19th, 2018, 12:49 am

September 17th, 2018, 4:40 am #38

[quote="badger01j"]
FO for more information you can search YT for 'Mike SIgman' and Internal Strength. He claims that what he put in those older videos and the example of a step ladder are no longer how he thinks it works, but I'm not sure if he means that or is trying to distance himself for some reason. He is the person who provided me much of the information on the 'store and release' the use of 'ground path' and the idea that it is the pelvic floor muscles (maybe the same ones that women use to build up their strength (kegle exercises)?) that are involved in using the 'tantien' and controlling the pelvis and hips.

If you look at the pelvis mechanically and envision the limbs as being able to 'flip' or flail when the pelvis rotates with speed, you can get a sense of how it could work. Chen X. Wang demonstrates this in his YT videos and he was Mike Sigman's primary instructor (loosely speaking). The Chen clan is not about to give out the 'real' truth about IS to a non Chen person let alone a Westerner.

To me, some of the secrets of type of 'short power' would involve strengthening the accessory muscles so they can contribute to and carry the power of the larger muscles. So for the hips you want to seek out and toughen all of those, and we see BL doing the 'dragon flag' exercise in that famous picture and in the pics from EtD we see the hyper developed muscles around his hips (TFL, Gluteus medius, quadriceps), and I'm sure he had a very powerful iliopsoas muscle also. In the upper body you'd work on all the accessory muscles for the scapula, the rhomboids, the infraspinas and teres as well as the deep muscles that stabilize the scapula, then in front the serratus and the obliques, and the abdominals. I've already mentioned the importance of the wrist and forearm muscles and how there are specific ones which hypertrophy when you practice the wing chun wrist tilt punch with resistance.

One of the comments made about BL is he tried to develop the muscles that were weak even in strong men.

In addition one of the muscles that got developed for me was the intercostals an the diaphragm from doing a lot of bicycling up hills such that my shirts no longer fit me. This development was even greater than in the period of my youth when I was doing powerlifting twice a week.

Anyway just some more info for you.
[/quote]

Great post. Am looking forward to looking into those sources you mentioned.

Thanks
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 26th, 2018, 8:39 pm

September 17th, 2018, 1:38 pm #39

[quote="FormlessOne"]
The following reminded me of some of points of interest to some on here, being discussed on this thread - it's a very interestingly insightful book review of Ted Wong protogé, Teri Tom's "The Straight Lead: The Core of Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do."

It's review number 50 or 60 or so, on the following link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/0804836 ... geNumber=7

Enjoy the challenging insight...

_______________

QUOTE:

"Good intention, but falls short" - By Rick Bulwiczon August 17, 2009

I bought this book with great anticipation, but was severely disappointed. Teri Tom studied with Ted Wong (no disrespect to Sifu Wong) for a few years and thinks she's an authority on JKD? Mmmm...

I've studied Jun Fan and JKD for 19 years, with direct students of Bruce Lee from Seattle, Oakland, and L.A. eras. Ms. Tom has A LOT to learn.
This book covers good, basic information about stance and the straight lead, although it is incomplete. It's all stuff I've seen for years in Black Belt and Inside Kung Fu magazines. Nothing new except for the notes on Bruce's research from his books.

Although Tom claims JKD is not modified Wing Chun, sorry... that's what it is. The JKD stance is a Wing Chun right-facing forward stance with a raised heel and forward attack weight. Nothing more. See the book "Advanced Wing Chun" by William Cheung on page 21 for the proof. The JKD stance has all of the triangulation, loaded hip, and internal alignment of the WC stance. Of course if you asked her, she wouldn't have any idea of what you're asking about. You cannot fully understand JKD unless you have the Wing Chun principals! That's why Bruce could make other things work - he used the WC principals to improve and integrate other techniques. This is also why there aren't many great JKD fighters... they don't have any understanding of the WC attributes that made JKD work for Bruce Lee. Pat Strong and James Demile (both Seattle students) told me how Bruce Lee came back to Seattle after moving to Oakland to show them how he modified his stance. He MODIFIED the WC stance, he DID NOT invent a new one based on boxing and fencing as Tom indicates. That's absurd.

Tom also claims Bruce abandoned Wing Chun. He didn't... it abandoned him. Bruce didn't finish his WC training. When he went back to Yip Man years later, he was refused because he had disrespected traditional martial arts openly. So Bruce had to integrate other things into his art to make up for the shortcomings he never learned. This is documented and common knowledge.

The straight lead is also a plain ol' traditional Wing Chun punch (Chun Chuie). Bruce did not invent either the JKD stance or straight lead by combining boxing and fencing. They have existed for a hundreds of years before he was born within Wing Chun. He had notes on boxing in books. I have notes on different religions in my books. It doesn't mean I practice all of them. They are REFERENCES. Bruce didn't need books on WC because he studied it for years under Yip Man and knew it. There also weren't any WC books available at that time. That's why Teri Tom finds so many boxing books and notes at her disposal. But she takes this as being all Bruce was interested in. Is this what she considers research?

Teri also failed to include some of the mechanical principals in describing the lead punch. She left out the immovable elbow, hammer principal, final power (fa-jing), penetration, back/shoulder sealing and unity, sinking weight, small arc (cam) principal, non-intention... I can go on. Her footwork is also an incomplete mess... no spring energy, hip loading, critical edge, start speed, short arc, tilted hip... I can rip this book apart page-by-page, but space is limited here. She even mistakes low-line hooks for a Straight Blast in one of the Bruce documentary films. C'mon, you don't know what a straight blast is? (page 179) She also doesn't understand falling step power, stating to land the punch BEFORE your foot hits the ground. The power comes up from the ground when you contact it through the locked knee.

Even her "interview" with Ted Wong is skewed. She blatantly asks questions that point into the direction of her beliefs. They are clearly manipulative in nature.

This book basically contains beginner info written by a beginner. Nothing replaces a good instructor, especially a bad book. Her knowledge of Wing Chun is so superficial that she makes bad comparisons between WC and JKD. How can you criticize and art you barely have any knowledge of? Teri Tom needs to take the blinders off and gain a little humility.

END QUOTE
__________________
[/quote]

This comment suggests that Bruce Lee created JKD because he did not have access to the real Wing Chun. It also implies that Wing Chun is a such effective art that if Bruce had been able to study it in its entirety, he would have not needed to create his own system. So, once again: What is real Wing Chun? I think we're supposed to see it in this video. The fight was held on the rooftop of the house of Wong Shun Leung in 1961.  It is seems that he organised those rooftop fights mostly.



The first thing we notice is that this type of fight is much less violent than a Brazilian vale tudo… It even looks like a bare-knuckle sparring … That make us think of what could have happened with Wong Jack Man : The Wing Chun guy rushes on his opponent who steps back and runs away. The straight blast that we see in this film is not very explosive... Notice also that no punches reach their target. I hope Bruce with his hot temper has been more aggressive with WJM. Seeing this, one can understand why he needed to modify his original combat system.
Today, Wing Chun is best known for the defeats it suffered against various martial arts. To explain this, his defenders always give the same excuse: it was not the real stuff. It is true, for example, that when William Cheung and Emin Boztepe fought in Germany in the 80s, we did not see anything that looked like Wing Chun… What we saw was just a bum fight. After that, I do not see how the winner was able to promote his school !
Recently, we still have witnessed the inefficiency of Wing Chun in another style vs. style street-fight in Japan.  On this occasion, Xu Xiaodong (MMA) takes on a so-called master named Ding Hao (a 4th generation descendant of Yip Man). Those who saw the event have noticed that the chain punch (the trademark of WC) does not work in reality. In fact, this technique was optimized by Vitor Belfort during his fight against Vanderleï Silva. This is now known as "the boxing blast". Many MMA fighters use it today.
Therefore, one may then wonders : What are the truly valuable elements of Wing Chun that Bruce would have retained to form the fundamental basis of JKD? But as his different students are fighting each other, it's very difficult to know. On the other hand, there is one point on which they all agree, is that Bruce was hiding his techniques. For example, guys from the Jun Fan era learned trapping techniques but without the key points that make them effective. Which supposes that they had to subsequently complete their learning by themselves. But when you do not have the genius of Bruce Lee, it's not that easy… These guys also dispute the fact that Bruce has gradually abandoned the trapping stuff by moving to LA. They claim that he kept the most part of this art for himself. If that's true, how did Bruce work these techniques in secret? Just with the Mook Jong ? I don't think so. Yet in sparring, he certainly had to use the "pak and hip". Why does no one talk about it ? So, it is almost certain that both clans (JFGF and JKD) have received incomplete teaching. That's why it's very hard to understand the connection between fencing, boxing and trapping with the biomechanical principles that Bruce had studied.
But that is not where the problem lies. Bruce maintained that from the beginning , a student should learn to spar effectively. He prefered his sparring opponent to wear protective gear so he could go « full out ». Today, his followers talk all the time about sparring, but we never see them spar. So, in order for us to know what JKD really is, the easiest thing to do is to show in all out sparring the five ways of attack, the hammer principle, etc. It is pretty obvious. Why not follow Bruce Lee's example?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

September 17th, 2018, 2:21 pm #40

^^ The simple reason is that except for a celebrated few, none of the JKD guys are fighters. That's not to denigrate them, I'm just saying that there are many types of MA. Some are mainly teachers, some are historians while still practicing, some are more into demonstrations. We have to remember that in many cases who takes up martial arts? Is it the star athlete of the school (say, high school level)? Is it the guy who also lettered in team sports? No. It's the guys who could not make the team, who were bookworms and were lured by the promise of 'secret tricks' that would allow them to use something to become deadly to their bullies.

We know a lot of what BL was hiding. I tried to start an essay on it but not many seemed that interested. He used the Mook Jong differently - as a type of isometric device. He pushed and slid with pressure on the arms, using it to get pressure and friction that is not possible with a fellow practitioner. We see people using it now who totally miss this aspect and are touching it lightly as though that is going to teach them anything to carryover to fighting a person. 

He also worked on developing a super strong bridge such that he could hold up a 70lb barbell at arm's length. All of the JKD students knew the kind of work he did but they all glossed over it and went to the various 'tricks' such as simultaneous block and strike, types of footwork, types of trapping and so forth, which were, back in the day new things.

Going against a Japanese stylist who did 'block then strike' a simultaneous B&S would work it was that different and seeming revolutionary. Now these people were mainly not even lifting weights and were (at the time) mostly doing kata and hitting and kicking 'air'.

It's understandable why they would be lured by the 'tricks' and skip the hard work - they didn't quite understand why BL had the need to develop that base, because they didn't have his sense of urgency and pride.

He played into that and most of them say he used them as 'training dummies' and though he might have told some people in the Oakland era what he was doing, he didn't force them to do it. They did have some 'rough and tumble' workouts but that is not the same as building a base of super strength in the accessory and bridge arm muscles. They essentially missed the boat.

WC was developed, so the story goes, as a counter to long fist or Choy Li Fut style martial systems. But when people moved to western boxing the WC guys didn't drop the notion of 'guarding gates' and trying to 'block a punch' half way to the target and take up guarding the target (such as the peek-a- boo styles which guard the head close in). We saw one WC type guy who was still doing that 'blocking an incoming punch' in the UFC and he got KOed quickly. 

What does WC have to offer? It has the Lin sil de dar or simultaneous block and punch, it has straight punching. It has the notion of trapping which can work and is used in other styles such as when boxers will pull down the opponent's glove and strike, but the WC version is not going to work. A few people (such as Roy Harris) claim to have figured out how to make WC style trapping work but he's not telling how, nor showing it. But the stances and other aspects of WC are not going to work.

The only other thing is as aspect of the Bil Gee form finger strike which can work if used in a slightly different manner to most. I don't think it's a worthwhile style to practice in the modern era.
Quote
Like
Share