Joined: January 24th, 2018, 5:04 am

January 24th, 2018, 6:35 am #61

Just following this converation and was hoping you could enlighten us on your comment of Raymond did tell Betty to call the ambulance.

The topic of "when" was the main concern. The story that has been told for the last forty four years is that an ambulance was called for sure (records).

The issue I have is the "when" and "why" the (ambulance) was NOT called when Betty first tried to wake Bruce.

Here is what we know from that night.

1) Betty and Bruce were to dine with Raymond and Lazenby but did not show up (pre determined time).
2) A call is placed to Betty asking where they were, is was at this time that Betty say's she cannot wake Bruce
3) Raymond makes his way to Betty's flat
4) Raymond cannot wake Bruce either, calls a doctor (his or hers not sure)
5) Doctor makes his way to Betty's flat, cannot wake Bruce....
6) At this point based on everything that was documented that night, the ambulance was called to Betty's flat
7) Would be great to know the "timeline" between Betty first trying to wake Bruce and ambulance finally being called.

I cannot recall one time in my entire life (53) that I could not awaken someone from sleeping (and if I had an issue trying to wake someone, after a few mintues I would be calling medical help, that is a fact for anyone I know). With that said, the chain of events outlined above stands to reason Bruce may have been deceased even before Raymond called to see where they were for dinner.

I think we may read into this history, they wanted to get thier story straight and all be on the same page before the ambulance came.

I feel what they should have been held accountable for is:

1) Betty knew what time they were expected for dinner (I assume she did), why then did it take a call from either George or Raymond after not showing up to understand that Bruce was having a medical issue. Betty said she cannot wake him (so she tried to wake Bruce to go to dinner, she could not, what did she do then just chill out and wait for Raymonds call, unreal)
2) Raymond knew from the collopase in May that finding Bruce (quickly) and getting him to the nearest hospital that saved him. Why then would he not (stand on the side of caution) tell her to call the ambulance while on the phone with Betty and get him medical help.

What ever their reasons were unfortunatley meant Bruce Lee never had a fighting chance to survive that night, thanks to his great friends Betty & Raymond (what a way to go).

So based on Raymond and Betty statements we know the ambulance was called was at the "End" and it was way way to late.

I saw a YouTube video which I think is from the U.S. Death by Misadventure DVD. He was supposed to meet Bruce at a restaurant. He said: "That day, I was there waiting for him. I wait up to 6.30 or something and I call up his house. Somebody told me he's not home and something happened. So I went to his house after I hang up the phone then I know."

When asked by the interviewer who was there, Charles said: "A few of his, I think, students, his son."

When asked about Brandon, Charles recalled: "I said "Where's papa?" He says "Daddy go movie. Daddy go movie." He didn't speak well then."

When asked about the other guys, Charles said: "Well, they were so sad. They don't want to tell anything. One of his students says "I don't think that he will come back." They already notice, that was the time they already notice Bruce is gone. He's dead. Those four students - I don't know them very well. I ask them "Where's the hospital?" They won't tell me. They seem so secretive, so I went home and I wait for some information."

Since those men seemed so sad, maybe they were his closest stuntmen - Lam Ching-Ying, Peter Chan Lung, Billy Chan Wui-Ngui and Yuen Wah.
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Joined: July 24th, 2015, 3:19 am

January 24th, 2018, 9:08 am #62

Just following this converation and was hoping you could enlighten us on your comment of Raymond did tell Betty to call the ambulance.

The topic of "when" was the main concern. The story that has been told for the last forty four years is that an ambulance was called for sure (records).

The issue I have is the "when" and "why" the (ambulance) was NOT called when Betty first tried to wake Bruce.

Here is what we know from that night.

1) Betty and Bruce were to dine with Raymond and Lazenby but did not show up (pre determined time).
2) A call is placed to Betty asking where they were, is was at this time that Betty say's she cannot wake Bruce
3) Raymond makes his way to Betty's flat
4) Raymond cannot wake Bruce either, calls a doctor (his or hers not sure)
5) Doctor makes his way to Betty's flat, cannot wake Bruce....
6) At this point based on everything that was documented that night, the ambulance was called to Betty's flat
7) Would be great to know the "timeline" between Betty first trying to wake Bruce and ambulance finally being called.

I cannot recall one time in my entire life (53) that I could not awaken someone from sleeping (and if I had an issue trying to wake someone, after a few mintues I would be calling medical help, that is a fact for anyone I know). With that said, the chain of events outlined above stands to reason Bruce may have been deceased even before Raymond called to see where they were for dinner.

I think we may read into this history, they wanted to get thier story straight and all be on the same page before the ambulance came.

I feel what they should have been held accountable for is:

1) Betty knew what time they were expected for dinner (I assume she did), why then did it take a call from either George or Raymond after not showing up to understand that Bruce was having a medical issue. Betty said she cannot wake him (so she tried to wake Bruce to go to dinner, she could not, what did she do then just chill out and wait for Raymonds call, unreal)
2) Raymond knew from the collopase in May that finding Bruce (quickly) and getting him to the nearest hospital that saved him. Why then would he not (stand on the side of caution) tell her to call the ambulance while on the phone with Betty and get him medical help.

What ever their reasons were unfortunatley meant Bruce Lee never had a fighting chance to survive that night, thanks to his great friends Betty & Raymond (what a way to go).

So based on Raymond and Betty statements we know the ambulance was called was at the "End" and it was way way to late.

"1) Betty and Bruce were to dine with Raymond and Lazenby but did not show up (pre determined time)."

I don't recall ever reading anything about Betty joining Bruce, Raymond, and George for dinner. George has never mentioned anything about expecting Betty to also be at the dinner. As far as I know, it was just supposed to be Bruce, Raymond, and George.

All three met for lunch that same day, and all were to meet again for dinner. They were discussing GOD more deeply. Bruce complained of a headache at lunch, and remarked to George that he didn't get headaches very often. For Bruce to complain about a headache, it must have been quite strong, even at that point. George has commented that he found it odd Bruce would complain about something like a headache. George told Bruce at lunch that if he wasn't feeling well, they could always skip dinner, and they could discuss the movie later when he got back from being with his wife in London, where she was about to have a baby in approx. two weeks. But Bruce told George, "If I say I'm going to be there, I'll be there".

Bruce was about half an hour late when George asked Raymond if he knew where Bruce was, at which point either Raymond or George called Betty's place the first time (in some interviews George said he called, in other interviews he says Raymond called). They waited about another half hour before calling Betty again. George then says Raymond told Betty to call an ambulance.





"All type of knowledge ultimately means self-knowledge"
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Joined: November 23rd, 2006, 7:41 pm

January 24th, 2018, 10:30 am #63

It's speculated that foul play was involved with Bruce Lee's death. Triads may have played a role, or may have not. Jackie Chan recently in a talk show said the death of Bruce Lee had nothing to do with Triads. However, Jackie Chan at some point was running from Triads as well. One can't really trust Jackie Chan's denial of Triads, because it's speculated that he feared his life if he were the publicly talk about them and confirm their shadowy influence in everything.

Throughout Bruce Lee's life he had many beef with the Triads. Before he left HK to go to America in 1959, he was already in deep trouble for beating up Triads, like a Triad leader's son or something. Secondly, Bruce taught martial arts to westerners, which was against the "Chinese community/federation's rules" but it was implied by many people, that in the 60s, the Chinese Traditional Martial Arts Community was run by Triads behind the scenes. Such as, in order to own a martial arts school, you needed to be "verified and registered" into the community, and you had to pay protection fees, which Bruce Lee brushed off quickly with no second thought. This might have bothered them, as he was teaching westerners martial arts AND he was not following the policy of registering himself in the Traditional MA Federation acceptance. That is also including his feud with beating up Triad members back in HK before 1959. Already he had tension with the Triads.

It even progressed more as Bruce Lee became a super international star, and his beef with Lo Wei (who was a triad leader who does HK films), and his connections with Betty Ting Pei, who was also his friend but also a triad and was hugely connected with Triads.

Lastly, the fact that Bruce Lee was going to leave HK and pursue his acting career in America after Enter The Dragon, Raymond Chow, GH Studios, and the Triads behind the movie industry in HK, were furious about Bruce Lee going over to Warner Brothers instead of making millions of money in HK. This pissed them off apparently. It is said that a man who messes with the Triads money, will be on their hit list.

It would explain why Birth of The Dragon movie, which also had Triads in the movie, was made to portray Bruce in a negative, degrading, historically and biographically incorrect. I would not be surprised that Birth of The Dragon movie was specifically designed as a diversion by the Triads to show THEIR vision of Bruce Lee in a negative light. Wong Jack Man in real life, had to fight Bruce Lee, remember? But Wong Jack Man didn't send himself to fight Bruce Lee, WJM was sent by "the elders of the traditional Chinese MA community" aka "Triads behind the scenes."

This is all speculation honestly, there's no evidence for this, but in my mind I believe it's all connected. Bruce had had problems with the Triads dating as far back as 1959 all the way until 1973. It wouldn't surprise me that the Triads really hate him.

So, what do you guys think?
You all miss one point. That is Hong Kong's mentality over responsibility.
Listen to Death by Misadv. interviews again, especially what happened when Lee was brought to hospital after May collapse - people that brought Lee vanished immidiately. Similar thing happened when Lee arrived dead at Queen Elizabeth Hospital on July 20th - no one wanted to offcially pronounce his death.
Now let's get back to Betty, who is a young hope-to-be star, completely dependant on movie-industry-big-fish Reymond Chow. She's definitely not the one to make decisions if anything about Bruce Lee goes wrong. It's easy to panic in such abnormal situation, especially when it comes to:
- love affair,
- huge money,
- death,
- future carrer.
That was definitely up to Reymond to decide how to react, how to deal with triads, what to do if things go wrong, what story make up for family and press, who to bribe etc.
By that I don't mean Bruce wasn't killed. It's just that people of Hong Kong had totally different attitude towards responsibility for the south east Asia's bigests star. I'm sure things would be quite different if it happened in US, but it was Hong Kong in 1970's. If triads were concerned (and they most definitely were) it wasn't hard for them to kill anyone, fake autopsy reports and make witnesses lie on their own playground.
The exact details will remain mystery as long as some triad boss change his mind.
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

January 24th, 2018, 11:58 am #64





Last edited by pathfinder73 on January 24th, 2018, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 22nd, 2017, 10:25 pm

January 24th, 2018, 12:49 pm #65

"1) Betty and Bruce were to dine with Raymond and Lazenby but did not show up (pre determined time)."

I don't recall ever reading anything about Betty joining Bruce, Raymond, and George for dinner. George has never mentioned anything about expecting Betty to also be at the dinner. As far as I know, it was just supposed to be Bruce, Raymond, and George.

All three met for lunch that same day, and all were to meet again for dinner. They were discussing GOD more deeply. Bruce complained of a headache at lunch, and remarked to George that he didn't get headaches very often. For Bruce to complain about a headache, it must have been quite strong, even at that point. George has commented that he found it odd Bruce would complain about something like a headache. George told Bruce at lunch that if he wasn't feeling well, they could always skip dinner, and they could discuss the movie later when he got back from being with his wife in London, where she was about to have a baby in approx. two weeks. But Bruce told George, "If I say I'm going to be there, I'll be there".

Bruce was about half an hour late when George asked Raymond if he knew where Bruce was, at which point either Raymond or George called Betty's place the first time (in some interviews George said he called, in other interviews he says Raymond called). They waited about another half hour before calling Betty again. George then says Raymond told Betty to call an ambulance.





If you read the articles Nick posted following your message, Betty actually tells the media (this was her words immediatly following Bruce's death) that the three of them (Betty, Bruce and Raymond) were to meet Lazenby for dinner.

That one detail, Betty knew they were to meet Raymond & George for dinner and the time, they were a no show, why, because she could not wake Bruce, yet she did'nt call anyone, they called her to find out where they were....it was then and only then did Betty tell Raymond that she cannot wake Bruce.

I am fairly confident the story they told the world, outlined above, is not accurate, because if it was, then both her and Raymond failed to act in a human way which is to call for help (immediate help) for a friend in need of medical attention.

Guess will never really know what happend.

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Joined: September 21st, 2015, 3:56 am

January 24th, 2018, 1:01 pm #66

You all miss one point. That is Hong Kong's mentality over responsibility.
Listen to Death by Misadv. interviews again, especially what happened when Lee was brought to hospital after May collapse - people that brought Lee vanished immidiately. Similar thing happened when Lee arrived dead at Queen Elizabeth Hospital on July 20th - no one wanted to offcially pronounce his death.
Now let's get back to Betty, who is a young hope-to-be star, completely dependant on movie-industry-big-fish Reymond Chow. She's definitely not the one to make decisions if anything about Bruce Lee goes wrong. It's easy to panic in such abnormal situation, especially when it comes to:
- love affair,
- huge money,
- death,
- future carrer.
That was definitely up to Reymond to decide how to react, how to deal with triads, what to do if things go wrong, what story make up for family and press, who to bribe etc.
By that I don't mean Bruce wasn't killed. It's just that people of Hong Kong had totally different attitude towards responsibility for the south east Asia's bigests star. I'm sure things would be quite different if it happened in US, but it was Hong Kong in 1970's. If triads were concerned (and they most definitely were) it wasn't hard for them to kill anyone, fake autopsy reports and make witnesses lie on their own playground.
The exact details will remain mystery as long as some triad boss change his mind.
Agreed, bro. Different mentality and everyone tried to push the responbility from one to another.
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Joined: September 12th, 2011, 9:14 pm

January 24th, 2018, 1:25 pm #67

If you read the articles Nick posted following your message, Betty actually tells the media (this was her words immediatly following Bruce's death) that the three of them (Betty, Bruce and Raymond) were to meet Lazenby for dinner.

That one detail, Betty knew they were to meet Raymond & George for dinner and the time, they were a no show, why, because she could not wake Bruce, yet she did'nt call anyone, they called her to find out where they were....it was then and only then did Betty tell Raymond that she cannot wake Bruce.

I am fairly confident the story they told the world, outlined above, is not accurate, because if it was, then both her and Raymond failed to act in a human way which is to call for help (immediate help) for a friend in need of medical attention.

Guess will never really know what happend.
More reason to believe Bruce was not to make it out of Betty's place, alive. He survived the studio incident and was saved by GH staff... Oddly enough, Chow was present at the May 10th collapse, July 20th lunch (where Bruce complained of a headache), and at Betty's, before death...
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Joined: December 27th, 2012, 8:01 pm

January 24th, 2018, 2:53 pm #68

Agreed, bro. Different mentality and everyone tried to push the responbility from one to another.
This needs clarifying.
According to Linda, when Bruce arrived at the Hospital, Doctors were working on him and she said they directly injected drugs into his heart to get it going.
She then noticed the heart monitoring machine line go flat, indicating that he'd died.
Surely then, in order for Linda to remember such a distressing scenario, he couldn't have already been dead at Betty's.

Also, Tom Bleaker said that when Bruce arrived at the Hospital, his face was swollen, and in order for that to happen,there has to be a pulse in the body.
Any thoughts?
Regards!
Tony
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

January 24th, 2018, 6:38 pm #69

Inquest:

Betty Ting Pei "I saw Bruce Lee last one month before July 20th" How extraordinary









Betty & Dr. Chu


Dr. Chu

Last edited by pathfinder73 on January 24th, 2018, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 12th, 2011, 9:14 pm

January 24th, 2018, 8:16 pm #70

Something is not right about this "arriving at Betty's." There was no need to 'meet to discuss a script'. Betty was Lee's mistress, and if she were going to be in the film, that'd be that. Chow, Bruce was already at odds with the man over distribution of WOTD being made without his input, and the (silent negotiations) with The Traids overy Tea Money (there were TWO boops on Concord). Add in the terrible ETD negotiations in which Bruce forced his hand to 'make the deal', and you could see the partnership was turning sour. So, it'd be interesting to find out how/why they were able to get him to come to Betty's home. I'm not naive about their relationship, but I don't really think he was there for hanky panky-that night.

Bruce Lee was on the cusp of becoming an international movie star, and more than likely, THE FIRST CHINESE Worldwide Star. He KNEW it, and, more importantly, RAYMOND CHOW KNEW IT. Chow was going to be out to sea when Bruce left HK because Lee was gathering the talents of those HK Stuntmen, and promising to take them West with him. Do you think Chow, who'd struck gold with Lee, rescuing GH Studios, after leaving The Shaws, could stand for such a loss of face? No.

Bruce Lee had a series of travel arrangements on the schedule; meetings with WB, book deals, clothing endorsements, attorneys to deal with his lawsuits AND Chow, and lastly, the promotional tour for ETD, scheduled for an August release in the U.S. along with an appearance on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

If anything was going to be done to him, it had to happen BEFORE he left HK.
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