( BL vs Skipper Mullins or Joe Lewis ??? ) + Mike Stone & Mike Norris

Joined: January 19th, 2010, 12:04 am

July 19th, 2018, 8:37 pm #1

BL vs Skipper Mullins or Joe Lewis ....???

BRUCE LEE TKOs KARATE CHAMP IN FULL CONTACT MATCH
Mike Norris saying his father would kill BL in a real fight w AJ @ 4:20
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Real Bruce Lee Fighting Footage SUPER QUALITY @ 00:27


Bruce Lee vs Joe Lewis || Спарринг / Редкое Видео
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Bruce lee vs karate rare video by JRCB


MiKE STONE .........................................................................................................

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/show ... p?t=416723

Mike Stones ( Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute CERTiFiCATE 4/8/68 ) @ 00:45
" BL will live FOREVER " @ 2:09


@ Bruce & Brandons grave @ 4:59


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Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

July 19th, 2018, 10:39 pm #2

The first four have been debunked from being BL. Sorry.

It's always fun to see those old videos and it's amazing how terrible those guys were in the 60s. No wonder BL got such accolades.
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Joined: July 16th, 2003, 11:43 am

July 19th, 2018, 10:43 pm #3

Joe Lewis in Black vs Skipper Mullins 

1st fight with Joe Lewis. Black Belt June 1967. At the beginning of 1967, during the "Tournament of Champions" organized by Henry Cho, Chuck Norris beats Leon Wallace, 42 years, with a judo throw, ippon seoi-nage. Norris loses one of his fight, against Bob Engle.

Chuck Norris meets Joe Lewis. Lewis out of the playing surface, comes back, his guard only at the half-ready for an instant. Chuck Norris sees the opening and drills a spinning back kick to Lewis's face. Norris wins the fight. Chuck Norris wins against Skipper Mullins. Lewis wins against LaSalle, Skipper Mullins and Bob Engle. Chuck Norris wins the Grand Champion, with 4 victories for one loss. (Black Belt June 1967).

http://karate-in-english-lewis-wallace. ... ecord.html

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Joined: July 25th, 2015, 1:24 pm

July 21st, 2018, 12:01 pm #4

[quote="caucazhin"]
BL vs Skipper Mullins or Joe Lewis ....???

BRUCE LEE TKOs KARATE CHAMP IN FULL CONTACT MATCH
Mike Norris saying his father would kill BL in a real fight w AJ @ 4:20
1
2

Real Bruce Lee Fighting Footage SUPER QUALITY @ 00:27


Bruce Lee vs Joe Lewis || Спарринг / Редкое Видео
+

Bruce lee vs karate rare video by JRCB


MiKE STONE .........................................................................................................

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/show ... p?t=416723

Mike Stones ( Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute CERTiFiCATE 4/8/68 ) @ 00:45
" BL will live FOREVER " @ 2:09


@ Bruce & Brandons grave @ 4:59



[/quote]

Stone had a great reputation in his time but for him to say that looking back like 40 years no one impressed him as far as fighting is a joke !
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Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

July 21st, 2018, 2:09 pm #5

^^ Funny thing is that a lot of guys had 'great reputations' but when you find their fights on YT they are actually laughable. One of the worst is Jim Harrison who once claimed he could beat BL. Now here is a guy who is probably 50 lbs heavier and about 6' tall or taller, trying to make a claim over a straw-weight. He tries to put BL down but in the same breath he's comparing himself - you can't have it both ways.

I've actually seen many of those guys and there were some really good technicians. Byong Yu, Bill Wallace, Larry Carnahan, Jeff Smith, Lewis, and a few other. But in my opinion a lot of them were just rated as good because of their promoting and holding tournaments and having a 'cadre' of 'tough guys' who you didn't want to cross. I thought Ed Parker, who did a lot for MA in his day was mostly 'demo' type skills, and when he saw what BL was doing he felt kind of internally embarrassed and then created his mostly bogus series of books which were just nonsense.

Many of the guys who had good tournament reputations were just those who flaunted the rules, made excessive contact and some who got KO-ed relatively quickly when actually getting in to full-contact, among them Jim Butin (who was quickly KO-ed in his first fight) and Monster Man Everett Eddy who was found to have a glass jaw. Yet everyone was afraid of him on the tournament scene in the no-contact era. He was actually pretty good in no contact being able to do stuff that you usually only see in smaller guys.

Looking at Stone's videos, I'm not impressed with him either. He's got a good body to be a kicker and I'm sure he trained hard and paid his dues but he has nothing to be egotistic about IMO.
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Joined: July 25th, 2015, 1:24 pm

July 21st, 2018, 4:46 pm #6

[quote="badger01j"]
^^ Funny thing is that a lot of guys had 'great reputations' but when you find their fights on YT they are actually laughable. One of the worst is Jim Harrison who once claimed he could beat BL. Now here is a guy who is probably 50 lbs heavier and about 6' tall or taller, trying to make a claim over a straw-weight. He tries to put BL down but in the same breath he's comparing himself - you can't have it both ways.

I've actually seen many of those guys and there were some really good technicians. Byong Yu, Bill Wallace, Larry Carnahan, Jeff Smith, Lewis, and a few other. But in my opinion a lot of them were just rated as good because of their promoting and holding tournaments and having a 'cadre' of 'tough guys' who you didn't want to cross. I thought Ed Parker, who did a lot for MA in his day was mostly 'demo' type skills, and when he saw what BL was doing he felt kind of internally embarrassed and then created his mostly bogus series of books which were just nonsense.

Many of the guys who had good tournament reputations were just those who flaunted the rules, made excessive contact and some who got KO-ed relatively quickly when actually getting in to full-contact, among them Jim Butin (who was quickly KO-ed in his first fight) and Monster Man Everett Eddy who was found to have a glass jaw. Yet everyone was afraid of him on the tournament scene in the no-contact era. He was actually pretty good in no contact being able to do stuff that you usually only see in smaller guys.

Looking at Stone's videos, I'm not impressed with him either. He's got a good body to be a kicker and I'm sure he trained hard and paid his dues but he has nothing to be egotistic about IMO.
[/quote]

Here are a couple of points:

Yes they look sloppy but all you can do is 'fight (compare to)' the guys around in your time.
That was a different time.
In comparison Bruce looked too damn smooth when sparring unrehearsed with Dan infront of a crowd (I bet his experience in the ring in HK in boxing matches helped him with understanding combat exchanges infront of a crowd etc etc)
I have also heard that many martial artists around back than actually called Ed "father of karate' a fraud in that he was just a promoter who made a name for himself.
Jim Harrison also said that one of Allen Steens student beat Bruce in a sparring session. Of course he goes on to say that he had no doubt that Bruce lee would have been champ had he competed (in the same interview) !
.
What I find the funniest is Mike stone saying that no one has ever impressed him as far as fighting, I think that says a lot about his credibility regarding martial artists .
I also heard an radio interview in which Joe Lewis, while promoting his book, says that he told Mike Stone something like 'why all those years ago you were bragging to me about Bruce lee and now after all these years you changed your tune' and how come you did not stick around to defend your title when I came on the scene. lol
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JTF
Joined: June 21st, 2018, 10:03 pm

July 21st, 2018, 11:49 pm #7

A few thoughts on the point fighters from the Blood and Guts Era.

1) Like any era (e.g., Boxing, Kickboxing, MMA) the point fighting circuit in the 1960's contained only a handful of top-notch fighters. IMO, the Big Three (e.g., Stone, Lewis, Norris) were leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else in terms of skill and consistency. A few others had their moments in the sun, but they could not repeat that success on a consistence basis. Examples include...

- Allen Steen defeating brown belt Mike Stone in 1963, and Chuck Norris at the 1966 Grand Championship match held at Long Beach.

- Tonny Tulleners defeating Chuck Norris three times in a ten month (e.g., 1965-1966) period.

2) Despite the Big Three's incredible success in the point-fighting arena, their resumes did contain some holes.

- Not counting his handful of team oriented point matches from 1968-1970, Stone's individual point-fighting career lasted a mere 18 months. His early retirement from the sport resulted in Stone never having to face Chuck Norris or Joe Lewis.

- From 1965-1966, Norris was a 2nd-tier point fighter before becoming the best point fighter in the United States from 1967-1968. His one year reign was similar to Stone's reign which was from 1964-1965.

- In their head to head point matches, Lewis was 1-3 against Norris and 0-2 against Bill Wallace.  

3) Considering that Bruce Lee was the first martial artist to spar in full body gear in private (e.g., Sundays with some of his students at the Chinatown kwoon) and public (e.g., 1967 Long Beach), I believe there is viable data to compare Lee's point-fighting skills to any or all of the point fighters from the Blood and Guts Era. In addition, he sparred with both Norris and Louis Delgado at his home in Culver City. Delgado competed against Norris and Lewis and he handed Norris his last defeat as a point fighter. Delgado stated that Lee was the toughest man he ever faced.
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JTF
Joined: June 21st, 2018, 10:03 pm

July 22nd, 2018, 4:32 am #8

In regards to Mike Norris' comments regarding a street fight between Bruce and his dad, well...

1) Once you appear on a talk show that thrives on right-wing conspiracy nonsense, your credibility goes out the window.

2) Hate to break it ya, Mikey, but Bruce Lee got into more street fights on the set of Enter The Dragon than your father did in his entire life.

3) I think we all know why Mike did not correct the Nutty Conspiracy Professor when he called his father a "full contact" champion.

4) No disrespect to Norris as a point fighting champion, but IMO, Bruce would have ended a street confrontation with Norris in less than a minute. Lee was comfortable in the streets whereas the streets were basically an unknown environment to Norris. Heck, even Norris' lone street fight occurred in a bar when he was in the service.  
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Joined: December 19th, 2017, 9:38 pm

July 22nd, 2018, 2:02 pm #9

[quote="a1z1"]
Jim Harrison also said that one of Allen Steens student beat Bruce in a sparring session. Of course he goes on to say that he had no doubt that Bruce lee would have been champ had he competed  (in the same interview) !
[/quote]

Knowing (about) BL's temper, I don't find this claim credible. If it were then Harrison would have given a blow-by-blow (maybe he wasn't there?). If he wasn't there then his is a stupid claim to make, because a lot of people claimed to be able to handle BL (Vic Moore?) and we know those claims are false because in Moore's case we have video proof he was confabulating.

If anyone had beat BL in a sparring match that person would have come forward and given an account to the magazines. "The Day I Beat Bruce Lee".

It's all too convenient for Harrison to give a third party claim - "...a student of a friend did it; (but) I wasn't there".

Harrison was a very aggressive opponent (there's a video of him vs Fred Wren, who was not pushover) and Harrison repeatedly fouls him even kicking him n the ground and hitting during and after the break and after Wren scores cleanly (the referee's instructions would have been 'stop when I call it or I'm DQ-ing you', but Harrison was the type to shrug that off. Lots of grabbing and hitting even after Wren had scored. I would have DQ-ed Harrison at least on two occasions. He even takes a 'karate chop' swipe at Wren's neck when he should have stopped and waited the ref.

Aggressive fighters can be hard to deal with but we know how BL would have dealt with a 'grab attempt'. I don't think Harrison would have stood a chance. He doesn't look very good in his full-contact match against Vic Moore (also on YT), but in fairness it was the early days and fighters had not had time to get used to wearing gloves.
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Joined: July 25th, 2015, 1:24 pm

July 22nd, 2018, 2:35 pm #10

[quote="badger01j"]
[quote="a1z1"]
Jim Harrison also said that one of Allen Steens student beat Bruce in a sparring session. Of course he goes on to say that he had no doubt that Bruce lee would have been champ had he competed  (in the same interview) !
[/quote]

Knowing (about) BL's temper, I don't find this claim credible. If it were then Harrison would have given a blow-by-blow (maybe he wasn't there?). If he wasn't there then his is a stupid claim to make, because a lot of people claimed to be able to handle BL (Vic Moore?) and we know those claims are false because in Moore's case we have video proof he was confabulating.

If anyone had beat BL in a sparring match that person would have come forward and given an account to the magazines. "The Day I Beat Bruce Lee".

It's all too convenient for Harrison to give a third party claim - "...a student of a friend did it; (but) I wasn't there".

Harrison was a very aggressive opponent (there's a video of him vs Fred Wren, who was not pushover) and Harrison repeatedly fouls him even kicking him n the ground and hitting during and after the break and after Wren scores cleanly (the referee's instructions would have been 'stop when I call it or I'm DQ-ing you', but Harrison was the type to shrug that off. Lots of grabbing and hitting even after Wren had scored. I would have DQ-ed Harrison at least on two occasions. He even takes a 'karate chop' swipe at Wren's neck when he should have stopped and waited the ref.

Aggressive fighters can be hard to deal with but we know how BL would have dealt with a 'grab attempt'. I don't think Harrison would have stood a chance. He doesn't look very good in his full-contact match against Vic Moore (also on YT), but in fairness it was the early days and fighters had not had time to get used to wearing gloves.
[/quote]

Harrison even said he himself was not really fast or a hard hitter.....
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