NscrupulousModefiler
Junior Member
Joined: 8:38 AM - Jul 18, 2016

8:57 AM - Sep 25, 2017 #51

DevilZ' Nerfworks wrote: I'm absolutely going to put one of these in my next stampede so I don't have to go fishing for wires ever again ^^
Edit: banggood carries the same parts for a similar if not cheaper price with free shipping
Cheers for the heads-up 🙂 I'd actually gotten a couple of those exact fittings through AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-New ... 0.0.g3OfHC

I seriously considered permanently attaching the Artifact flywheel-cage's male XT60 using one of these with some longer screws, but it would have made the cage less able to be dropped into another build later down the track. They'll definitely come in handy somewhere though!



**UPDATE** YOUTUBE VIDEO: It Lives!!

First proof-of concept firing demo.  3 x E-flite Blade FK180-3240's, dodgy used Elite darts, battery at about 1/2 charge (2 x Samsung INR18650-25R's @7.6v), wiring toggled to live centre. Nice responsive triggers, easy single-shots and flywheels run ohhhh, soooooooo smoooooooth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnO1G81z3LE

Will post pix and a diagram of wiring soon.
Last edited by NscrupulousModefiler on 7:33 PM - Sep 25, 2017, edited 1 time in total.
Greetings, Nerflings - We come in peace. Shoot to Thrill!
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OldNoob
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Joined: 2:05 PM - May 07, 2013

12:04 PM - Sep 25, 2017 #52

Well done, that's working really well. 
Big_Poppa_Nerf:15158 wrote: Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
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NscrupulousModefiler
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Joined: 8:38 AM - Jul 18, 2016

10:29 AM - Sep 26, 2017 #53

OldNoob wrote: Well done, that's working... 
Cheers! I'm actually more relieved than anything 😰 Great to finally see what the difference is in practice between live and dead-centre wiring (my only other full-auto build is a MTB-style 2-switch job)... That the new cycle-control switch set-up works at all is way more good luck than good planning. I was really worried I'd have to tweak the switch-positioning to hell and back to get it to behave but as installed it's been doing great off anything from a full 8.2v charge down. Might be twitchier with different motors/batteries but there's still wriggle-room to fettle the dwell if necessary - and the system as a whole will make shoe-horning a modular RS pusher-box into future builds pretty straight-forward.

Most immediately obvious thing now though is the dire need for a dart guide. The throw of the RS pusher arm is good (ie: it doesn't need an extension to consistently feed darts to the wheels - even short-arsed Zuru X-shotties), but old worn and bendy Elites do NOT play well with the aggressive 45˚ bevel on the Artifact Red cage (darts present to the entrance waaay too high and jam without much provocation). Should have listened to that little voice before I put the flywheels on...
Greetings, Nerflings - We come in peace. Shoot to Thrill!
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OldNoob
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Joined: 2:05 PM - May 07, 2013

1:29 PM - Sep 26, 2017 #54

I just use better darts. Never needed a dart guide with red cage and Hooligan wheels, over the course of BoB where it got pretty hot and darts were flying thick and fast I had zero feed failures.
Big_Poppa_Nerf:15158 wrote: Boff whats the damage? I have spent over 3 times my Nerf budget this month already. Part of me is trying to be a responsible parent/husband/house owner. The other half is just says 'Ahhhh, Screw it!'.
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NscrupulousModefiler
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Joined: 8:38 AM - Jul 18, 2016

9:05 AM - Oct 12, 2017 #55

Again, sensible advice. Better darts on the way! I just couldn't resist finess-ing the Red cage a bit though... more on that later, cause it's time now for the wiring update (prepare to be bombarded with images!)


**UPDATE**: 2S wiring loom








Note: Green wire in diagram is brown in real life. All wiring is nominally 16AWG, but I've found there's 16AWG, 16AWG and 16AWG... Basically the pricey stuff is better in that there are more and finer strands and is therefore capable of transporting more current. It's also decidedly fat. Flexibility varies... mostly I've used silicon-clad but when I ran out (a lot more wire than expected goes into a three-switch full-auto bullpup...) I had to reach for the automotive stuff while waiting for the new silicon-clad wire to arrive (the new stuff fell somewhere between as far as quality and flex, but was very reasonably priced). So, the blue and brown wires to the pusher-control switch are a bit stiff but she's firing fine.

It took a while, but I've routed the 2S loom so it's completely removable from the shell without having to separate the inner and out shells. The 3v loom is getting re-wired to change the switch operation around and will have that capability added then (and everything will attach only to the outer shell). This'll mean I can detach everything for gluing up and painting.


Right-hand-side shell-half. All 2S wiring laid on this side. // Left-hand-side shell half. All 3v wiring laid on this side with the exception of the two wires to the tac-torch (connected by a JST in LHS switch-bay) // 2S volt-meter attached by JST connector in RHS wiring-bay.
   


Battery Tray Wiring:

Original layout for the battery-box internals // Original tray is slightly different from the preferred one in the centre image (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lo ... 0.0.hRqwdn)... On this tray the contacts slide into the tray from the top rather than the bottom - this will make adding larger and more conductive contacts easier. // In the meantime, the current battery tray has been inverted from original plan to better accommodate voltmeter and wiring.
   

Proposed voltmeter placement // marked out for cutting // channel cut
   

Voltmeter in position // marking out holes for push-switch and LED's // countersinking holes
   

Wiring up voltmeter // Assembled box. Momentary push-switch protected in recess // Voltmeter activated showing reading at 7.6v (switches off after 2 seconds).
   


Flywheel Cage Wiring:

Artifact Red cage connected to XT60 connector with 16AWG silicon wire. The wiring is run pretty damn close to the 180-sized motors to minimise the height everything projects out from the shell and ensure nothing touches the underside of the Firestrike motor-covers. Next time I'll leave those covers as tall as possible to have a bit more room here...
   


Pusher-Box Wiring:

LHS pusher-box wiring  // RHS pusher-box wiring. If I added connectors on these two wires here I could easily drop in a different motor without soldering // Pusher-box positioned in shell with XT30's connected.
   

Pusher-box wiring routing. The live/dead switch and the pusher fuse were swapped along the way which is why their connections look odd.
   


Main wiring to switch-gear:

Wiring to fire-control switch-gear and routing through Stampede thumb-hole to pusher box. The mag-well throat-piece has a small notch removed at the rear to allow the 4 wires to sit under it, holding them in place. // Close-up of fire-control switch wiring. This layout isn't as sensible as it could have been as I changed tack half-way through. I'll rationalise it at some point now I know how it best needs to run. // Wiring out from battery-box (with 20AWG splitting off to voltmeter up behind the barrel) and down to FC switches in grip then back up to flywheel cage.
   

2S wiring loom installed:
Last edited by NscrupulousModefiler on 4:10 AM - Jul 27, 2018, edited 1 time in total.
Greetings, Nerflings - We come in peace. Shoot to Thrill!
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NscrupulousModefiler
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Joined: 8:38 AM - Jul 18, 2016

9:21 PM - Feb 12, 2018 #56

Long time between updates!

After extensive field-testing of the HP over the summer (Hooray, Ekind waffles! 😍) I really did feel the need for a dart guide. Scavenging is a big thing here so basically I want to be able to jam any sort of used and crappy dart in there that I can get away with. Had one too many soft pusher-crashes (were the dart gets jammed going into the cage, the pusher can't move forwards but the motor keeps turning - quickly winding the worm-gear right out to hit the side of the pusher box... not mortally wounding for the box but not great either...)  so came up with this:



While loading on the fly is a bit restricted now (read: useful, but would really only use it now in dire emergencies...) this set-up has consistently fired 9-10rps full-auto for several hundred if not thousands of janky rounds. Hacked-about elites, waffles, accufakes, streamlines, even X-shot "full"-length darts (X-shot darts are a bit nasty in flywheelers long-term...).

I'm sold 😀
...

The Artifact Red Cage. As a whole 'tis a lovely thing, but it's let down a bit by the sharp bevel on the dart entry-port. Tried shaping, sanding and polishing, but still getting the odd jam with older, bendy or short darts. Needs a guide.


Mag sits too high in HushPuppy magwell to feed nicely into an Artifact Red cage - even with a thoroughly shaped, sanded and polished entry port. This isn't so bad with brand new darts, but if you're cheap and want to reuse them a few times (or especially if you're scavenging and scooping god-knows-what off the ground and ramming them in your mags) you definitely need something more dependable.


What's needed is a dart feed guide - here monstered up out of the end of an old Recon breech...


With a slight trim, a single tapped hole and a small screw...


Shaped to precisely match the entry port on the cage. Would have been easier if we'd just left the original bevel there, but you have to try these things...


Works as it should to hold the dart in place and guide it into the cage, but impossible at this stage to load darts into the mag "on the fly".


Trying something cunning then... Here the long thin part of the guide-arm is trimmed off and the underside where it greets the dart is tapered and smoothed to enable loading on the fly but still acting as a reliable guide. It's not ideal (you have to insert the tail of the dart as far back as you can and then move it forward under the guide - see pic below), but it kinda works. Several hundred rounds at full auto later, and all darts - even shabby used elites and streamlines(!) are still guided into the cage without fail.


Trimmed guide sits almost entirely over the full tip of an Elite dart.


Guide covers the entire tip of an Ekind dart (slightly longer foam)


Guide just catches the tip of a Zuru X-shot dart - again, just enough to reliably feed into the cage. These are the shortest "full-length" darts I've come across. They're light so get decent range, are relatively accurate and the heads survive better going through the Worker wheels multiple times than anything else I've used. Still not a patch on a good new waffle-tip though, but the point here is to make a blaster that'll take anything you can feed it.

EDIT: over time though, the flywheels wear down the foam behind the rubber tip and they end up jamming. I now save these darts entirely for front-loading springers :0(
Greetings, Nerflings - We come in peace. Shoot to Thrill!
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NscrupulousModefiler
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Joined: 8:38 AM - Jul 18, 2016

6:06 AM - Jul 28, 2018 #57

Just spent 2 days re-hosting ALL the images that got lost from the build-log a while back. So while we're on a roll... here's a few more... with yet more of the final body-work to come over the next few weeks as we get ready for summer =0)


Upgrades 😍😍  "Mark 2" 2S Battery Pack:

Old-ish news, but on the way to finishing off the build so posting this here for completeness.

Some links:

* Samsung INR18650-25R's: 20A continuous current delivery, 2500mAh. A decent solid-perfoming18650 battery. This was the gold standard for vaper's for ages and so is super-cheap and varifiably genuine ones are readily available, and has been a pretty good performer in tthe HushPuppy.

Samsung INR18650-25R test

* Sony VTC5A's: 25A continuous current delivery, 2500mAh. Harder-hitting and longer-lasting than the Samsung 25R. A bit more expensive, but possibly the best 18650 battery around for this application.

Sony VTC5A test

Turnigy Graphene 65C 1800mAh 3S Lipo test using the same methodology . 3S rather than 2S, but included here as an "Apples-to-Apples" comparison of Lipo to 18650. Of course it's a MUCH better battery, but the test results might be a bit of an eye-opener for the 18650 nay-sayers out there as far as claimed v's actual performance on a level playing field. For those who want to delve deeper, there's a huge list of other battery tests (3S Lipo's right at the top) on this page.



1. On the right, the HushPuppy's Mark 1 battery pack. On the left, the new and improved Mark 2. And yes... Mark 3 is in developement (think 21700 format...)


2. Mark 1 battery pack - 2x Samsung INR1865025R's in a (cheap) high-current drop-in tray (shown here before the 12AWG wiring was soldered in to connect everything up...). In this set-up, the individual cells have to be removed for recharging. This makes construction really simple, but is a pain to use long-term. Connection between the cells and the output is simply a pressure fit between the contacts - better than coil springs, but still adds a lot of internal resistance to the completed battery pack = less current available at the business end.


3. HushPuppy Mark 2 Battery Pack : 2x Sony VTC5A's welded up into a proper rechargeable 2S pack with a female XT60 output directly attached to the cells via two thicknesses of 0.4mm nickle plate. 22AWG balance taps to the built-in MR30 3-pin female balance-charging connection and a 4-segment LED momentary-switched voltmeter. Better batteries + welded connections (rather than pressure-fit in Mk 1) so lower internal resistance (IR) = better able to dump current out of the XT60 = MOR POWAH!


3a. Mark 2 battery pack - fully disassembled.


4. Mark 2 Battery pack - Internals pre-wire...


5. About to spot weld the second layer of nickel tabbing from the XT60 connector directly to the batteries. A double-stacked tab was spot-welded to bridge the batteries at the other end after this weld was completed.


6. Mark 2 Battery Pack - Internals Assembled


7. MR30-to-JST balance-tap adapter - connects to a standard 3-pin JST balance charger (just like a Lipo)


8. Testing Impedance Meter's internal resistance. To the left is the XT60 female connector with double-stacked nickle tabs soldered on ready to be welded to the 2S 18650 pack.


9. A Sony VTC5A (25A discharge, 2500mAhr. IR Reading: 11.0mΩ (its mate was reading 10.9mΩ)
NB: Older model VTC5's (20A discharge) were spec'd at 13mΩ's so this IR reading for a better performing battery seems on track, plus Mooch's test of a VTC5A on his gear gave a reading of 11.1mΩ, so these are probably relatively accurate numbers.


10. 2x Sony VTC5A's in series to make a 2S "pack" in the Mark 1 Battery Pack (drop-in high-current tray). IR Reading 33.7mΩ - not brilliant but OK.


11. 2x Samsung INR18650-25R's (20A discharge, 2500mAh) in the same Mark 1 drop-in high-current tray. IR Reading: 39.6mΩ.
Individually, these batteries were reading 14.0mΩ each. A quick comparative calculation with the VTC5A's then puts the additional resistance added by the "tray" part of the pack at ≈11.7mΩ.


12. HushPuppy 2S Battery Pack Mark 2.  IR Reading: 18.9mΩ .
I have no idea how this managed to be LESS than the combined IR's of the two batteries (tho these are quick and dirty readings...) but its certainly a marked improvement on the drop-in tray.


13. Just for comparison, a Turnigy 1000mAhr 2S 65C Graphene Lipo  IR Reading: 6.8mΩ.
DAMN, but that's low! Looking forward to seeing how this fares in a comparison shoot-out between all three. Sadly while this little Lipo would be ideal for the Hushpuppy in it's current configuration, it solidly refuses to fit in the existing removable battery-box format. Because of the way the wires run (they're VERY chunky...), even if I trim and re-solder them I'd have to invert the XT60 connection to the blaster (and so the other two battery boxes too...) That'll have to wait till the next build...


More soon!


Update: Pusher-Box Covers:

Box still waving in the wind... so dressing the sides up. 1st bit is off a Rapidstrike shoulder-stock arm:
   

Next is chopping into some venerable 6-dart mags:
         

Caaaaareful glue-up with Devcon. The pusher-box was already held pretty precisely and rigidly by the holes cut in the existing shell, but we didn't want to change that alignment and certainly didn't want to go gluing the box to this new (permanent) part of the shell.



Update: Finalising Sling Attachment-points:

The original sling-points: top one needed a hole filled in the shell under it, and the bottom one... well... just wasn't doing it for me. The velco got in the way and to be honest, ruined the lines of the blaster a bit.


Picking a segemnt of RS shell to colour-match // Cut and filed to fit // Hole filled!
   


Trialling a Hammershot sling attachment-point. The original idea had this retracting into the shell when not in use. To make the HS sling-point fit though I had to make it permanently extended. // Bent and bogged into place in shell. // Turned out to be too restrictive on the clasp, so looked for an alternative...
   

Settled on using an aluminium mini-carabiner, and managed to make it retractable this time. Two detent positions (open/closed) provided by filed flats on the tight curved end of the arm. Pushes out with your finger and clicks into place around the internal screw, or pushes back into place and clicks closed:
     

 
Greetings, Nerflings - We come in peace. Shoot to Thrill!
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