The Pritchett Cartridge ..my Way PART 2

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The Pritchett Cartridge ..my Way PART 2

Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 5th, 2018, 1:08 pm #1

Good Morning Gentlemen,

last Saturday i had my Range Day and would share my results ....

Due to your great input i have improved my roll and chocke skills

20180131_220038.jpg

For this Day i prepared two different charges   with two different Bottom Inserts : Flat and Deep





20180131_214623.jpg Bullet Weight are 

43 gramm  = 663 grs shallow bottom

41 gramm =  632 grs deep bottom

pure Bullet diameter : 14,52 mm = .571/2 inch plus Paper results in very tight fit at the Bore.

shortly  to say, i have  nice sizing die made  from a friend which  proceed me a  14,48 mm = .570 Bullets for a quiet easier loading next trial.

Distance: 50 m
rested on Sandbag
POA  : a six o clock hold

All Targets are done  with 10 Shots each and no wiping between .
After 10 Shoots i wiped with Moose Milk,  three Wet and two dry Patchs.


Ok,

my Load:

60 grs Wano Sporting Powder  FFFg granulation 
Stylex Paper 
Shallow Bottom

Unfortunately  the 9 th. shoot results in a flyer just right in the white...


20180205_081325.jpg next .....

the same load but with the deep Bottom Insert

20180205_081352.jpg
last Target below

68 grs Wano Powder Nr. 1  it has a coarser granulation like  FFG Powder and is similar like Goex FFg

same Paper and shallow bottom

20180205_081339.jpg

it was a much fun day.... and what are the result..

Confetti.....

20180205_081601.jpg 20180205_081607.jpg 20180205_081620.jpg Enfield2.jpg

will be continued....

Regards from Germany

Klaus
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BobB
Colour Sergeant
BobB
Colour Sergeant
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 3:41 pm

February 5th, 2018, 5:38 pm #2

That's brilliant, Klaus - I'm impressed!

Look at the rifling marks on the confetti; just as they should be. And as for accuracy.... blimey! Can you give us the approximate measurements for the group sizes? I know these are at 50m but it will be interesting to see what they would have been at 100m.

I'm really pleased for you, Klaus. Seeing your success has made my day! 

Bob.

  
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 6th, 2018, 12:45 pm #3

BobB wrote: That's brilliant, Klaus - I'm impressed!

Look at the rifling marks on the confetti; just as they should be. And as for accuracy.... blimey! Can you give us the approximate measurements for the group sizes? I know these are at 50m but it will be interesting to see what they would have been at 100m.

I'm really pleased for you, Klaus. Seeing your success has made my day! 

Bob.

 Hi Bob,

thx for the flowers.. 🙂

i have not expected that my first results are good as this was....

I`ve been curious about the results on 100 m next time.

unfortunately we have an electronic target equipment on the 100m range and it is not allowed to use papertargets.
lts see how i take the results from them.

My next step are  a trial  with 10 Rounds with the at cast Bullet Diameter and 10 Rounds with the downsized  .570 Bullets

let`s see the different.
Klaus 🤓


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BobB
Colour Sergeant
BobB
Colour Sergeant
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 3:41 pm

February 6th, 2018, 12:58 pm #4

What are the sizes of the 50m groups, Klaus? 
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 6th, 2018, 2:26 pm #5

i will measure this in the evening and tell you tomorrow.....
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Rudyard
Sergeant Major
Rudyard
Sergeant Major
Joined: April 22nd, 2017, 2:12 am

February 6th, 2018, 8:35 pm #6

What is indisputable is the great result .What I query is the 600 plus grain bullet weight   my original mould only runs 500 grains and the given service  was 530 grain . .Capandball & Peterzolli advocate big heavy bombs  .Cant argue that  the bigger  bullets work  .   I just wonder if the  530 grains might  perhaps do as well  I guess I shall have to  try them and find out .  All Good stuff  and certainly a great result.. My hat off to you both . Regards  Rudyard
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Brett
Lance Sergeant
Brett
Lance Sergeant
Joined: December 20th, 2016, 2:57 am

February 7th, 2018, 5:17 am #7

Wirklich schoen Patronen, Klaus. 

I would be very happy with those groups. It seems you have an exceptional rifle. It also seems to like heavy bullets, which makes perfect sense. Without a plug, your bullets are expanding on the "upsetting" principle (to use the 19th century term). Your shallow-base bullets are similar to the original Pritchett-Metford bullet, which had a very shallow base cavity. The heavy bullet is an object of mass at rest in your barrel and, as Newton explained, wants to stay at rest; the lighter base of the bullet (because of the hollow) starts to move before the rest of the bullet, squashing the lead out into the grooves. The Wilkinson bullet used by Austria (Kompressionsgeschoss) works on the same principle. Your shallow base bullets should perform better than the deeper base cavity bullets, which will be lighter. Because of the very thick "skirts" they will not expand on the Minie principle. But who knows, I'm wrong about as often as I am right! The Pritchett often defies conventional wisdom in the most remarkable ways.

I wish my German was as good as your English! I had seven semesters of German in college and it was ganz Grammatik nur mit Dativ, Akkusativ, und das schrecklich Plusquamperfekt. Nicht zu viele Leute in Sud-Kalifornien koennen Deutsch schprechen, damit ich habe alles mein Deutsch vergessen.
"It is idle to say that either British or Americans are cowards; they are of one stock and of one blood, stubborn and courageous to the death."
--Colonel E.C. Wilford, Chief Instructor, School of Musketry, Hythe, November 1859
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 7th, 2018, 9:59 am #8

Good Morning,
thx a again for your  nice  comments

@ Bob and all ,  i have measured the widespread  from the far outer rim of the bullet holes in order  vertical to horizontal.
.
results from the 3 Pictures above  startet with the on top
All merits in inch:

7,5 to 4
5 to 3,8
4 to 4,2

on the first Target the two outsider destroyed the good group .😞

@rudyard and Brett

the heavy Bullet are not expected from my side i would have a 540 grs  bullet first but the results are good.
next part i do some pics about the mould and bullet for a better view at all

@Brett  , german language are complicated with all his  grammatical verbs and times e.g.

i try to make use of a comprehensible english so far i can, my great disadvantage is to think german and wrote english
most sentences are conversely in the right form.

Hope you understand what i mean.

let you know more next time

Klaus




   
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BobB
Colour Sergeant
BobB
Colour Sergeant
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 3:41 pm

February 7th, 2018, 10:41 am #9

Thanks, Klaus - that's interesting.

So, we're talking roughly 4" groups at 50m, discounting the odd flyer? Well, that's great as that'll mean a 7-9" group at 100m, which puts you well into what one should expect with well-made Pritchetts.

I reckon that if one can get a 6-7" group at 100m, that's going really well and the best I've ever managed with Pritchetts (on a good day, with a fair wind and the Pritchett gods smiling down on me...)

Oh - and stop worrying about your English. It's fine! Viel besser als mein Schuljunge Deutsch! 

Bob.
 
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 7th, 2018, 1:15 pm #10

Hi Bob,

it is very interresting to read how many of you gents are talking german language ....😊

pls do me a favor....
can you provide me the diamensiones  of the "International Pritchett  Target" which Rob use in his Videos skaled down to 100m and 50 m ?

thx a lot

Klaus
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BobB
Colour Sergeant
BobB
Colour Sergeant
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 3:41 pm

February 7th, 2018, 1:50 pm #11

Here we are:

The original was a 6' high x 4'wide target with 8" bullseye and 2' ring.
 
Scaled down to 100 yards (by Colonial Nic back in 2012) that works out as:
4' high x 31.5" wide with a 5" bullseye and 15.75" diameter ring (The ring itself being 1" wide).

At 50 yards, half that.

Although I shoot on a 100m range, I don't worry about the difference between yards and metres.

I can't use the full size of background area on my range (the largest size of backing board they allow being A2 size), so I just print half of the ring and bullseye onto sheets of A3 paper and join them together to make A2 size. It just fits! I also overlay them on a 1" grid which makes calculating the group size and Figure of Merit (with Rob's calculator) very simple.

I am away from my desktop computer at the moment, but if you can wait until the end of next week when I'm back, I can send you a .pdf (with or without the grid background) that you can print onto A3. 

Bob.
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BobB
Colour Sergeant
BobB
Colour Sergeant
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 3:41 pm

February 7th, 2018, 2:23 pm #12

Here's what my double-A3-pasted-together 100m target looks like (ignore the overlaid blue and red POA markings):

2412 100.jpg
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 7th, 2018, 3:02 pm #13

Hi Bob,

thx for your info👍

pls wait i will prepare  some targets on my own at this moment.
if i need your form i will let you know for sure.

thx again and a nice day  , it` s  4 pm and in  one hour i leave my desk and go home ... for today

Klaus
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rd72
Veteran of the Regiment
rd72
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: September 8th, 2006, 5:13 am

February 12th, 2018, 11:04 pm #14

Hi all,

For what it's worth, I found universally, that the shallow cavity, heavier bullet performed the best in all my Enfields.  In defiance of conventional wisdom, which says that slower twist P53s should perform better with a lighter, shorter bullet, I found the exact opposite.  I tried a .970 bullet with a deep cavity and I didn't even bother to spend time in working it up as the groupings were in the neighbourhood of 24" at 100yds...  A couple of loads either way did not produce anything different... I was very surprised.

Always be comprehensive in your work up.  Change only one variable at a time and you will find your rifle's best load.

Thanks for putting up your results, Klaus.  Things seem to be moving along nicely!
Cheers,Rob
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Rudyard
Sergeant Major
Rudyard
Sergeant Major
Joined: April 22nd, 2017, 2:12 am

February 12th, 2018, 11:42 pm #15

 Dear Rob you wrote 970 bullet do you mean its weight or a misprint for calibre ?  Have you tried the  Lorenze /Wilkinson bullet at all   Ime thinking to try it as I  don't want to go with heavy bombs otherwise the cartridge could be the same  . Perhaps this is herresy to suggest but  wouldn't matter to me if I got accuracy   ..Oh did you make up a 1776' Tower' rifle ?.  Regards  Rudyard
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rd72
Veteran of the Regiment
rd72
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: September 8th, 2006, 5:13 am

February 13th, 2018, 6:10 am #16

Sorry about that,... .970 in height... a short stubby bullet with a deep cavity.
Cheers,Rob
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Rudyard
Sergeant Major
Rudyard
Sergeant Major
Joined: April 22nd, 2017, 2:12 am

February 13th, 2018, 6:26 am #17

rd72 wrote: Sorry about that,... .970 in height... a short stubby bullet with a deep cavity.
 So short  and at that light  or nearer the 530 grain original ? .Are you saying the same bullet with shallow base is  good ? You make no mention of the  1776 ML rifle  but your  busy .I expect  Regards  Rudyard
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 13th, 2018, 4:03 pm #18

here again....
last Saturday was Range Day, a coold day  about  - 2 Degrees Celsius.

 seems to be a bit to cold for my Lube  mhhh ....

anyway....

my load this way  60 grs. FFFg  and 68 grs.  FFg Powder

i have sized  10 each to .570 and  10  unsized
each five Rounds  from given Powdercharges 20180210_095016.jpg

20180210_095236.jpg the good / bad first

smaler bullest sized are easier to load not lubes are shed at loading the round into the barrel  but the lager are  with more accuracy in this partial trial

i cleaned after each 5 shoots  with 2 dampened and one dry patch

first pic

unsized Bullets / 60 grs FFFG Powder  (  Bullet hole at the 9 left side are from a buddy next to me ..😠 )

20180211_103548.jpg next Pic

starting with 5 Rounds  . 570 Bullets and 68 grs FFG Powder.
following by 5 Rounds  unsized with 68 grs FFg Powder
results are  2 ouside in the white  following by 5 Round unsized Bullets
Unsized  are  two 8  lower right,  two 10s and  one 9 the upper one 

20180211_103608.jpg
last pic

5 shoots sized to .570 and 60 grs FFFg Powder out of the clean barrel
the first are a flyer left outside and  impact square in the paper
i am not really sure what are the reason for this matter..
clean barrel or imperfection on the Bullet / Cartridge ?

20180210_102337.jpg
next trial can be start over next week because i have no time before

Greeting from Germany

Klaus
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BobB
Colour Sergeant
BobB
Colour Sergeant
Joined: October 30th, 2017, 3:41 pm

February 13th, 2018, 7:36 pm #19

You certainly seem to be getting consistency, Klaus (apart from your one uncooperative bullet on the last target).

Probably time to start a systematic work up with slightly varying powder loads. I'm in the process of doing the same, but with three different bullet diameters and, like you, I can't always get to the range so it'll take some time.

Once we've got our best loads sorted out we'll have to arrange a Deutschland gegen Großbritannien Pritchett shoot!
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Klaus
Lance Corporal
Klaus
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 6th, 2016, 2:58 pm

February 14th, 2018, 8:42 am #20

Hi Bob,

it seems that we need some time to find  the  TOP LOAD  🤓

it would me a pleasure to have a  competition "Pritchett Shoot"
surley all other interrest are heartly invited 👍

looking forward

Klaus
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