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Snider Barrel Thread

Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 9th, 2018, 9:57 am #1

Good morning all. 

I am hoping the congregation might be able to provide me with some information.  Following my purchasing a box of assorted gun 'bits' I discovered therein a Snider shoe, the associated 'scrubbed' lockplate and some other 'odds and sods'.  Having an old P53 barrel lying in the workshop, I have been considering 'barrelling' the shoe and building either a full length or Sergeant's weapon as a wall hanger.

The information I seem totally unable to find in spite of trawling the internet mightily is what size of Die is required to carry out the threading of the barrel?  My good friend is a senior engineer and a former weapons artificer in the RN so he will oversee the operation but he could not decide what was required when he viewed the shoe the other day.  To be fair, he was only paying a visit and so had none of his customary 'kit' to hand to make a positive ID.

I hope you might be able to assist, I apologise if this is a foolish 'newbie' qiestion that has already been asked to death previously and I thank you in advance for your kind assistance.
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 9th, 2018, 11:44 am #2

Welcome Lochan,  Hope you enjoy it here!
  (Scottish??)
I know the answer, but at present it seems locked in and I can't find the key! LOL
Is it 1 1/8" x18??
The threads have  a slight taper to them, (Bit like pipe thread but less pronounced)
If it helps, the same thread was used on the Martini -Henry, and SMLE.
FWIW;
Snider barrels do turn up from time to time.
If you are in the UK, a smooth-bore may be an option if easier to put on certificate for shooting , rather than rifled & section 1.
It would appear a fair bit of work to merely hang on the wall.

All the best,
Richard.
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 9th, 2018, 4:03 pm #3

Hi Richard.  Thank you for the help, I am much obliged.  Yes, Scottish and living in Argyll.  I have a smoothbore barrel (somewhere) as well so that might be a plan.  Fortunately my FEO is a friend and a colleague so he's quite into the idea too; always helps a bit but the cost to get my FAC ammended is a right pain in the Southerly regions!
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 10th, 2018, 4:31 am #4

Some bonny country where you are, Lochan.  Years since I was up that way though.

Pity variations cost.   Over here we are maybe a bit spoiled.    (Ex Yorkshire  myself.)
I do have a couple of Snider barrels, but that'd be a pain with postage over there...
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 10th, 2018, 3:05 pm #5

Aye, it's stunning here.  I'm from this area originally, left as a wee nipper and returned (as was always my plan) once I'd done the career 'thing'.  Pity my ex wife made off with all the proceeds of said career, but hey ho!  lol  If, and only if, you didn't mind looking into it; I'd happily pay the costs for a barrel.  I am a recent convert to the 'work smarter, not harder' mantra!
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 10th, 2018, 6:13 pm #6

OK as time permits Lochan.

Question;

Lochandubh sounds quite close to Lochindhorbe  (if that's how you spell it)  Not related in any way ?


I never did get to work smart, BTW.
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 10th, 2018, 10:50 pm #7

It is Gaelic for the dark loch (lake).  That is the literal but it is a complex language about which I know only a little.  I am much obliged for your trouble and the working smart thing came to me late in life so old dogs can learn new tricks!
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 11th, 2018, 1:39 am #8

If working smart comes to me, it better happen soon!

As long as you aren't in a rush, I'll see what I can sort.

Lochindhorbe , ( near Nairn);
   I know a mermaid who lives below the loch.    A McKenzie.  :-)
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 11th, 2018, 6:40 am #9

Lochindorb, Granton on Spey.  The Mem Sahib (new wife) is from that part of the world and knows it.  Looks bonnie.
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Dave Fox
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Dave Fox
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Joined: January 9th, 2018, 11:16 pm

June 12th, 2018, 12:00 pm #10

I've a friend who created perhaps the world's first new Snyder by mating a loose shoe to an Italian replica P.53 Enfield.
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 12th, 2018, 12:18 pm #11

Dave,

I did one maybe ten years ago....don't quite remember now!
Used a repro Remington Zouave (spelling ) barrel.
Made it with a sporter type stock.

Bestest,

Richard.
DSCN1665.jpg
DSCN1663.jpg
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 12th, 2018, 7:27 pm #12

That is a stunning bit of work there Pukka; my sincere compliments!  Do you happen to know what type/size of die your friend used Dave?
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johnboy183
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johnboy183
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Joined: December 1st, 2013, 10:03 pm

June 12th, 2018, 9:36 pm #13

Quite happy to be corrected but I find that the Snider shoe and barrel size is almost identical to the 1" BSP pipe thread used on UK plumbing fittings. The barrel and shoe threads are almost parallel and not noticeably tapered. I have used a 1" BSP female socket with slots cut down the thread ( to mimic a die) to clean a somewhat damaged Snider barrel thread very successfully. Similarly I have used  a male 1" BSP fitting to clean the damaged threads of a Snider shoe.
I would have thought that plumbing pipe threading equipment could probably do the job you are looking for but it might help to wait and see if others can show my information to be flawed.
Hope that  helps
John
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 12th, 2018, 10:04 pm #14

Many thanks John.  Without wanting to sound as though I'm being wise after the event, they do look very, very similiar and your experience sort of underscores that.  I'm much obliged.
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johnboy183
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johnboy183
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Joined: December 1st, 2013, 10:03 pm

June 12th, 2018, 10:11 pm #15

I think I need to correct myself on this issue before others do! ( it just shows that posting when you are overdue to sleep is not wise).
I have been and dug out the parts I used and now recall that the female 1" BSP was a slightly loose fit and I had to put a saw cut through one side of the fitting and gently squeeze it closed to make it clean the damaged threads sufficiently. My "recall" on using the same technique to clean the shoe threads I can only attribute to a "senior moment" ! as I actually cleaned the shoe threads using a sawn off piece of Snider barrel which I fashioned into a die. (it came to me sawn off - I did not commit such sacrilege)
So I think the best I can say is that 1" BSP is very close but not good enough to cut a new thread on a barrel I doubt. Sorry if I misled at all
Regards
John
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johnboy183
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johnboy183
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Joined: December 1st, 2013, 10:03 pm

June 12th, 2018, 10:19 pm #16

I live near Newcastle and regularly travel up to Dundee where my son lives. If you needed to borrow the sawn off barrel for your  friend to accurately measure threads sizes, tapers etc. I am sure we could arrange it somehow. Just let me know - also if i can help in any other way just message me
Cheers
John
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 13th, 2018, 4:28 am #17

I do have a tap in the workshop, but been tied up building a corral the last few days. (Old one was falling down)
If I get a minute I'll look at it and see what it was.

Richard.
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Joined: October 13th, 2017, 2:21 pm

June 13th, 2018, 7:54 pm #18

Thank you gentlemen for your kind assistance.  While it may just be the perversity of age, this conversation makes me keener than ever to make this attempt.  It also jogged my memory that somewhere in the workshop I have a threading kit for a wide range of conduit types.  I will dig that out and examine the possibilities.  I am fortunate in having some 'scrap' sections of Nepali P53 type barrel in the spares box so can practice a bit on those.

I have never been much of a forum person but the knowledge and experience, and willingness to share same, here makes me a definate convert to this medium.  I really am very grateful.
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johnboy183
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johnboy183
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Joined: December 1st, 2013, 10:03 pm

June 14th, 2018, 8:58 pm #19

Hi once again.
Going over this issue I also recall another dilemma with Snider threaded barrel ends which could certainly affect your thoughts on this venture.
I discovered quite some time ago that the shoe type/version also affects the contour of the threaded portion of the barrel as some shoes are made to accept a small spigot on the end of the threaded portion whilst others have the thread almost terminate at the very end.
If you look at the attached photo you will see two snider barrels where one has the spigot and the other not.
A further factor is that unless you are very lucky or very skillful you may find that the rear sight on the barrel (if one is already on) has to be re-soldered into a new position. Similarly the front sight may need to be ground off and a new one made and brazed on.
Sorry for the additional dampeners and wish you well if you go ahead as I would like to see it done a sits something i have also considered doing as I now have several snider shoes.
John 2004_0101snider20016.JPG
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Pukka Bundook
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Pukka Bundook
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Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 3:19 pm

June 15th, 2018, 1:26 am #20

Lochan,

Finally got to looking at the tap I have;

1" x14 TPI.
Very slight taper to the barrel threads, but not as much as BSP.

Thread is the same on the M-H and the Lee Enfield.


All the best,
Richard.
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