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Need help with shipping

cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

10:05 PM - May 11, 2018 #1

Guys,

I have a buyer for my 1871 Snider Enfield. I went to ship it via fedex and they refused to send it. They stated their policy on ANY firearm is to use an FFL to either send or recieve.

I need help here. Is there a way to send it without using an FFL?

If so, tell ME how to do it, please.
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PommyB
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PommyB
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Joined: 9:41 PM - Sep 03, 2009

10:24 PM - May 11, 2018 #2

UPS will accept them, as long as you don't use one of the UPS Stores, which are franchises, you have to go to the depot. I send all my antique longarms thru USPS Priority Mail, I find rates are normally cheaper than UPS & delivery is quicker.....I recently mailed three rifles I sold at auction, none cost more than $40 & were all delivered in two business days.  I recommend opening an account at usps.com & using their 'Click'nShip' system to print out the shipping label yourself & take the package to the Post Office where you can just leave it at the counter.....no need to wait in line & deal with the Clerks who may or may not understand their own shipping policies (I work for USPS & we process firearms through the plant everyday).
"For a man, be he ever so much resolved to do his duty as a parent, can't be flogging his children all day....."

The Memoirs of Barry Lyndon, Esq. (William Thackeray).
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

10:30 PM - May 11, 2018 #3

So I don't have to declare that it's a rifle or anything like that?
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SaskMick
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SaskMick
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Joined: 3:14 PM - Mar 18, 2018

11:52 PM - May 11, 2018 #4

What fedex told you is bollocks, I have just shipped an antique rifle from the US to Canada with fedex. The contents of the package were clearly stated as being an antique firearm.
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

12:37 AM - May 12, 2018 #5

SaskMick wrote: What fedex told you is bollocks, I have just shipped an antique rifle from the US to Canada with fedex. The contents of the package were clearly stated as being an antique firearm.
Do you have a curio license or did you ship to a FFL in the US? Canadian laws on shipping may be vastly different than here in the US. I agree it's bollocks but that is what they told me and now i'll use USPS to ship it.
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SaskMick
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SaskMick
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Joined: 3:14 PM - Mar 18, 2018

1:47 AM - May 12, 2018 #6

cprems wrote:
SaskMick wrote: What fedex told you is bollocks, I have just shipped an antique rifle from the US to Canada with fedex. The contents of the package were clearly stated as being an antique firearm.
Do you have a curio license or did you ship to a FFL in the US? Canadian laws on shipping may be vastly different than here in the US. I agree it's bollocks but that is what they told me and now i'll use USPS to ship it.
No licence of any kind.  I just asked a friend of mine to take the rifle to fedex and ship it to me in Canada..  He shipped it fedex ground and I got it about 10 days later...... If USPS will not give you hassle then use them. :)
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

1:52 AM - May 12, 2018 #7

Thanks for the help guys. I'll use USPS and get the Snider to her new home.

I appreciate the input.
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PommyB
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PommyB
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8:54 AM - May 12, 2018 #8

cprems wrote: So I don't have to declare that it's a rifle or anything like that?
Not if you do it the way I described & pre-pay the postage online & just leave the package on the counter.  If you wait in line & present the package to the Clerk they will ask if it contains anything hazardous, etc. (but nothing specific to firearms, they are mainly concerned with liquids, paint, fuel, etc.).  It is perfectly legal for a non-FFL holder to ship an antique firearm to another non-FFL through USPS, but not all Clerks (or managers!) are aware of the policy so why potentially open a can of worms by doing so?!
"For a man, be he ever so much resolved to do his duty as a parent, can't be flogging his children all day....."

The Memoirs of Barry Lyndon, Esq. (William Thackeray).
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PommyB
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PommyB
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8:58 AM - May 12, 2018 #9

SaskMick wrote:
cprems wrote:
SaskMick wrote: What fedex told you is bollocks, I have just shipped an antique rifle from the US to Canada with fedex. The contents of the package were clearly stated as being an antique firearm.
Do you have a curio license or did you ship to a FFL in the US? Canadian laws on shipping may be vastly different than here in the US. I agree it's bollocks but that is what they told me and now i'll use USPS to ship it.
No licence of any kind.  I just asked a friend of mine to take the rifle to fedex and ship it to me in Canada..  He shipped it fedex ground and I got it about 10 days later...... If USPS will not give you hassle then use them. :)
I've also had rifles delivered to me through Fed-Ex also, in fact I received an original P'53 just a couple of weeks ago.  I suspect, like shipping UPS, franchise outlets can have a different set of rules to the actual company's depots.
"For a man, be he ever so much resolved to do his duty as a parent, can't be flogging his children all day....."

The Memoirs of Barry Lyndon, Esq. (William Thackeray).
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

4:46 PM - May 12, 2018 #10

PommyB wrote:
SaskMick wrote:
cprems wrote:
Do you have a curio license or did you ship to a FFL in the US? Canadian laws on shipping may be vastly different than here in the US. I agree it's bollocks but that is what they told me and now i'll use USPS to ship it.
No licence of any kind.  I just asked a friend of mine to take the rifle to fedex and ship it to me in Canada..  He shipped it fedex ground and I got it about 10 days later...... If USPS will not give you hassle then use them. :)
I've also had rifles delivered to me through Fed-Ex also, in fact I received an original P'53 just a couple of weeks ago.  I suspect, like shipping UPS, franchise outlets can have a different set of rules to the actual company's depots.
This was at the actual FedEx depot in my town. I guess it depends on who deals with you at the counter and where. Did your rifles come from a person or a dealer? That seems to be the catch right there. Person to person is apparently not allowed unless yo are an FFL or curio dealer. 
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PommyB
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5:56 PM - May 12, 2018 #11

In the last case (the P'53 Enfield) it came from an individual.
"For a man, be he ever so much resolved to do his duty as a parent, can't be flogging his children all day....."

The Memoirs of Barry Lyndon, Esq. (William Thackeray).
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SaskMick
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SaskMick
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Joined: 3:14 PM - Mar 18, 2018

6:44 PM - May 12, 2018 #12

cprems wrote:
PommyB wrote:
SaskMick wrote:
No licence of any kind.  I just asked a friend of mine to take the rifle to fedex and ship it to me in Canada..  He shipped it fedex ground and I got it about 10 days later...... If USPS will not give you hassle then use them. :)
I've also had rifles delivered to me through Fed-Ex also, in fact I received an original P'53 just a couple of weeks ago.  I suspect, like shipping UPS, franchise outlets can have a different set of rules to the actual company's depots.
This was at the actual FedEx depot in my town. I guess it depends on who deals with you at the counter and where. Did your rifles come from a person or a dealer? That seems to be the catch right there. Person to person is apparently not allowed unless yo are an FFL or curio dealer. 
Person to person is allowed by fedex..   The problem you had was with the individual you dealt with, he/she does not know the fedex rules.  He is in the wrong job.

I used fedex because my friend who shipped the rifle to me had seen signs in the USPS office stating that USPS do not accept firearms of any description... 😬

It's a mad world.
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

7:07 PM - May 12, 2018 #13

SaskMick wrote:
cprems wrote:
PommyB wrote:

I've also had rifles delivered to me through Fed-Ex also, in fact I received an original P'53 just a couple of weeks ago.  I suspect, like shipping UPS, franchise outlets can have a different set of rules to the actual company's depots.
This was at the actual FedEx depot in my town. I guess it depends on who deals with you at the counter and where. Did your rifles come from a person or a dealer? That seems to be the catch right there. Person to person is apparently not allowed unless yo are an FFL or curio dealer. 
Person to person is allowed by fedex..   The problem you had was with the individual you dealt with, he/she does not know the fedex rules.  He is in the wrong job.

I used fedex because my friend who shipped the rifle to me had seen signs in the USPS office stating that USPS do not accept firearms of any description... 😬

It's a mad world.
You ain't kidding! I think I'll go nuts trying to hip this lol. Anyway, I believe I have the answers that I need. 
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PommyB
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PommyB
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8:52 PM - May 12, 2018 #14

Mick, I can only assume your friend saw the signs (USPS Form 158) at the P.O. prohibiting the possession of weapons on federal property:


usps158.jpg
"For a man, be he ever so much resolved to do his duty as a parent, can't be flogging his children all day....."

The Memoirs of Barry Lyndon, Esq. (William Thackeray).
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The Double D
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The Double D
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Joined: 5:45 AM - Mar 11, 2003

6:16 PM - May 13, 2018 #15

As a former Fed, I am well aware of the Warning Signs such as Martyn posted.  We had similar signs  in the Custom Houses.  The almost always leave off Section (d)(3)) which says, "(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

This has long been interpreted to mean bringing in your personal weapon into a Federal facility for official purpose,  such as bring your weapon in for inspection at at Customs house or mailing in a Post office.


Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

8:33 PM - May 13, 2018 #16

The Double D wrote: As a former Fed, I am well aware of the Warning Signs such as Martyn posted.  We had similar signs  in the Custom Houses.  The almost always leave off Section (d)(3)) which says, "(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

This has long been interpreted to mean bringing in your personal weapon into a Federal facility for official purpose,  such as bring your weapon in for inspection at at Customs house or mailing in a Post office.


Quick off topic question. Does that apply to concealed hand gun licensees. Would that fall under the lawful purpose exception? 
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The Double D
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The Double D
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2:57 AM - May 14, 2018 #17

cprems wrote:
The Double D wrote: As a former Fed, I am well aware of the Warning Signs such as Martyn posted.  We had similar signs  in the Custom Houses.  The almost always leave off Section (d)(3)) which says, "(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

This has long been interpreted to mean bringing in your personal weapon into a Federal facility for official purpose,  such as bring your weapon in for inspection at at Customs house or mailing in a Post office.


Quick off topic question. Does that apply to concealed hand gun licensees. Would that fall under the lawful purpose exception? 
That is a subject  of  great debate right now.  I was aware, while still working-10 years ago that question had been asked but no case law existed at the time.

I think if you asked the  various Federal attorney's you would get widely carrying answers.  I still don't think there is case law on it.

If  you really want to to know the answer, may I suggest you a write letter to the Attorney General of the US.  You might also ask your State Attorney General about carrying in certain places.  I think you will find the answer varies widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

I purposely did not include reference to concealed carry in my response for just that reason.  That question has nothing to do with the discussion of the original post, nor is it part of the theme of  this forum.   So for the second time in as many weeks I am put in the position of asking for no more discussion on that subject.
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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cprems
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Joined: 3:54 AM - Apr 14, 2018

4:30 AM - May 16, 2018 #18

The Snider is on its way to its new owner! I appreciate all the help you guys have given and I apologize if I took the thread off topic with some of my questions.
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577
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577
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Joined: 1:52 PM - Sep 08, 2002

3:57 PM - May 21, 2018 #19

The Snider is not a FIREARM it is an antique.The Feds control FIREARMS 1/1 1899 or newer
577
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The Double D
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12:09 AM - May 22, 2018 #20

577 wrote: The Snider is not a FIREARM it is an antique.The Feds control FIREARMS 1/1 1899 or newer
577
That may not be correct either. The Snider is not a GCA gun.  Being over 50 caliber it is a NFA gun.  And it may not meet the requirements for antique either as fixed ammunition is available for in the  commercial  market. Best to get the right answer by writing to ATF branch. The only correct answer to that question comes from them.

Last definition I saw from ATF in writing indicated they consider this now a sporting rifle no longer having a military application and under the sporting rifle exemption of NFA .

Even that statement may not be totally accurate.. The only correct answer comes from ATF.
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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