Loading the 297/230 Morris

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Loading the 297/230 Morris

The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

05 Apr 2003, 03:10 #1

New Francotte on the way in 237/290. Anybody got any suggestions for bullets?
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

09 Apr 2003, 01:10 #2

Wow this topic got carried away...

Michael or Coyote what is the diameter of the heeled portion these bullets?

Any thoughts on using a regular .224 bullet GC lead bullet without a Gas Check?

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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CoyoteAndMommote
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 16 Mar 2002, 07:49

09 Apr 2003, 02:25 #3

Doug,

The heel should be between .050" and.075" long and between .200" and .205"...That will get ya there... "The attacker must vanquish, the defender, has but to prevail." --Coyot
"The attacker must vanquish, the defender has only to prevail." --Coyoté
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

09 Apr 2003, 12:35 #4

What is the bullet weight?

Would the Lyman 225438 without a gas check work?


DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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martinibelgian
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:43

09 Apr 2003, 14:40 #5

I do believe CoTW specifies some bog-standard lyman mold - will have to check when I get home...
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Clyde Deep East Texas
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 18 Mar 2002, 23:29

09 Apr 2003, 14:55 #6

CoTW says Lyman #225438 works. Apparently throws a 43 grain bullet (not sure what alloy). Gives two loads - 3 grains of Unique for 900 fps and 4 grains of 2400 for 1200 fps.

Factory loads are stated to use a 37 grain bullet, and with 3.25 grains of BP (FFFg, presumably) get 875 fps and with 5.5 grains, 1200 fps.

Teh exterior ballistic table gives charges of 1.75 grains of Revolver NEonite for the 297/230 Short, 875 fps with 37 grain bullet, and 2.75 grains Cadet NEonite for 1200 fps with eth 37 grain bullet.

I'd think the 2400 load would work pretty well.

We were soldiers, once. and young
We were soldiers, once. and young
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

09 Apr 2003, 15:09 #7

Ken at Jemtreks says this is a 297/230 Morris Long, The big one! The "magnum" Morris! Might use this for hunting, whatcha think!

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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martinibelgian
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:43

09 Apr 2003, 18:23 #8

Hmmmm - good for mice, maybe even rats! a bit undergunned for rabbit, though...
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Clyde Deep East Texas
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 18 Mar 2002, 23:29

10 Apr 2003, 20:51 #9

Oh, I don't know. 43 grain bullet at 1200 fps (and I'll bet you could get that beat with a little care and development - probably 1400 fps attainable without getting pressures out of sight) oiught to do fine for rabbits. 1200 fps is only 80 fps below a 22LR H-V hollow-point, and 55 short of a 40 grain H-V solid, which ought to make a decent rabbit or squirrel killer out to 75 yards or so.

Hollow-point the bullets and be taht much better, and loads might be deloped taht would get you up close to the hyper velocity 22LR ammo. Want to use a gas check if you re trying to heat things up, I'd think.We were soldiers, once. and young
We were soldiers, once. and young
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

10 Apr 2003, 23:57 #10

So, what you guys are ssaying is that you don't think this would be a good cartridge for Kudu, on my next trip to Africa!


I got this message from my cartridge collector friend.
Quote:
Douglas, Weight 38.4 gr Also It is a healed bullet upon closer examination. It
mikes out at .220 to .221 John
I have asked to buy that cartridge, si can send the bullet to A.J. O' Neil to have a bullet mould made.

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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Clyde Deep East Texas
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 18 Mar 2002, 23:29

11 Apr 2003, 16:22 #11

Kudu with 297/230 Morris? Short or Long? Umm, I wouldn't think I'd advise it. Though there are people who have killed elk and moose with .22 LR....We were soldiers, once. and young
We were soldiers, once. and young
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

11 Apr 2003, 19:24 #12

Sure Clyde, why not, Ackley Improve it, Barnes X bullet, Lil Gun Powder, Federal Mag primer, why I see Cape buffalo over the sights....Oh wait, I haven't taken my medicine yet this morning...DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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Clyde Deep East Texas
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 18 Mar 2002, 23:29

12 Apr 2003, 23:18 #13

I'm substantially of the opinion that, though it has been done, use of 22 LR and other rounds of equivalent performance for game much bigger than rabbits or squirrels is inappropriate and approaching immoral. Maybe in a subsistence situation with very careful stalking, it might be necessary, but it wouldn't be my choice.

Guess as a finisher with a shot through teh ear-hole or the eye, it would beat strangling with your bare hands, but the 297/230 strikes me as a atrget and small 9emphasis on teh small) game number. But now that you have taken your meds, you do too, eh?

Still, joking aside, I expect that 1500 fps ought to be reachable without doing anything stupid - though accuracy might or might not be there at that velocity. and that is plenty for small game or as a finisher for trapped fur-bearers as we all realize.We were soldiers, once. and young
We were soldiers, once. and young
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

13 Apr 2003, 00:06 #14

Thank you Clyde for shaking me back to my senses...why would I use a .297/230 for dangerous game when I have a perfectly good .218 Mashburn Bee for that...I wonder if I would have survived the charge from this deadly Steinbok if I had only a 297/230 instead the big Mashburn!




On a serious note. I have acquired three original rounds of .297/230 Morris ammo. Two longs and one short. One has the bullet pulled from it. I have sent an email message to A.J. O'Niel at CBE to see about getting a bullet mould made copying this bullet.

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

14 Apr 2003, 00:32 #15

I will be getting several round of original 297/230 Morris later this week or early next week. This includes the ruoudn that was pulled apart to check the bullet.

I contacted A.J. O'Niel about making a bullet mould. He will make a bullet mould from this bullet. I will have to pay for the cherry. Here is the cost.

CBE mould prices


Single cavity brass mould (up to 0.560) $82.80AUD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $50.00USD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
Single cavity brass mould (over to 0.560) $105.80AUD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $63.50USD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
Double cavity brass mould (standard blocks) $105.80AUD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $63.50AUD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp
Triple cavity brass mould (pistol & short rifle designs)$126.50AUD &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp $76.00USD


Cherry 195.00 AUD = 117.737 USD


Is there anyone interested in a mould for 297/230 and would be willing to share the cost of the cherry?


DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

19 Apr 2003, 01:30 #16

I decide to use 3 grs Unique, Grits and lube wad to make fire forming loads for the .297/230.

With a bullet I think 3 grs. is going to be a compressed load!

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
Reply

The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

20 Apr 2003, 14:46 #17

Anybody know if there is an LoC for the 297/230?

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

21 Apr 2003, 22:50 #18

Okay this is a test...which one uses a 37 gr. bullet? Think about, no cheating!



DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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Clyde Deep East Texas
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 18 Mar 2002, 23:29

22 Apr 2003, 14:15 #19

38 grains TOTAL bullet weight? The bottom one, I think probably... looks sort of like a 577/450 that got left out in the sun and shrunk, doesn't it?We were soldiers, once. and young
We were soldiers, once. and young
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

22 Apr 2003, 14:53 #20

Clyde is the winner and his prize is absolutly nothing.

Good job Clyde!

I was also struck by how much the .297/230 resembels the 577/450 also.

I heard from a fellow in England and he told me that the folks shooting 297/230 got their hands on some bullets intended for loading in .22 lr. ammo and they work the best.

Anybody know someone beyond the front desk of Remington, Winchester, Federal or CCI that I can contact about getting 10 lbs of bullets?

DD
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
Reply