Cadet extractor

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Cadet extractor

Fazer
Sergeant Major
Joined: 04 Jun 2002, 21:35

03 Mar 2017, 21:51 #1

Not sure if this should go here or gun smithing, but here it is. I asked the nephew if he could duplicate a small frame martini extractor. Here is the result. It is in 4140 HT steel, what ever that is. It is all put into the machine.It might take a bit of fitting, and he says it can be flamed hardened even more.I think the photo makes the new one look bigger. What di you think

 His words "The extractor can easily be duplicated. All the hard work is done



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joelblack88
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 03:21

04 Mar 2017, 00:43 #2

It looks good Chip, but what cartridge is it for?
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Fazer
Sergeant Major
Joined: 04 Jun 2002, 21:35

04 Mar 2017, 11:51 #3

I sent him one I think from a 310 cadet. Pulled a spare part. from the box. I'll try fitting it when I get back to the house. I was wondering though, if the face was left full, then a person could  cut it to their needs, 357, 22, and so on. They are made in Wales Wi. I originally had him making a copy of a front sight for a Peabody Creedmore and just threw in the extractor as an after thought. 

Joel, you going to the Baltimore show. 


Chip
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joelblack88
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 03:21

04 Mar 2017, 23:27 #4

No Chip. At this point the only show I travel to is the KC show. Having the extractor set up for .22 is the best way to go.
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VaqueroJoel
O/R
Joined: 26 Mar 2017, 13:53

26 Mar 2017, 13:53 #5

Howdy all, Long time lurker, first time poster. Fazer, your nephew does very nice work.

I am in the process of collecting the parts for a 4-5 barreled Small Frame Martini set and would be interested in several extractors. I would want them to be solid like the 22lr extractors are so that I can fit them to the barrels and calibers that I want to use.

Incidentally, I have a BSA Model 12 takedown in .22lr and a center fire breach block in the mail. I am looking at making barrels for it in .222 rimmed, 30 Badger, 30 Badger Max, and 44XL shotshell. Should be good for everything from quail to dear.
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joelblack88
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 03:21

26 Mar 2017, 22:54 #6

I have a 222 rimmed barrel. I have to get $25 plus shipping for it.
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VaqueroJoel
O/R
Joined: 26 Mar 2017, 13:53

27 Mar 2017, 01:26 #7

Thanks for the offer Joel. PM sent.
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

27 Mar 2017, 02:46 #8

Centerfire Breech block? Did you loose your breechblock? BSA used one breech for both centerfire and rimfire, they just adjusted the striker height.

Best way to do a switch barrel is have two trigger groups, one set up for rimfire and one adjusted for center fire. Switch barrel, switch trigger group

To keep it even simpler for the centerfire keep everything the same head size and you will only need one extractor.
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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VaqueroJoel
O/R
Joined: 26 Mar 2017, 13:53

27 Mar 2017, 05:36 #9

Double D, I did not loose the rimfire breach block, I just wanted a second one so that I can change from rimfire to centerfire and back again. As for the extractor size: the .222 rimmed, 30 Badger, and 30 Badger Max are all the same head size (based on the 38 special family), the 44XL is shotshell based on a 44-40 so it would need a difrent extractor. The 30 Badger is a 38 special necked down and the 30 Badger Max is a 357 Maximum necked down. I am thinking of using these for rabits and deer respectivly and the .222 for coyots and shuch. The 44XL would be for quail and grouse. This gentelman has been my insparation for this project, http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubb ... 2&page=all.
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 11 Mar 2003, 05:45

27 Mar 2017, 17:18 #10

Wow, that guys has done some incredible work. Absolutely beautiful. He is extremely talented. I wish I had one tenth the skill he has. His treatment of the  lever knob is beautiful. That is one area that most gunsmith can not seem to get right, he nailed it.

He is applying the American school in Gunsmithing on the Martini. We Americans did not know how the Martini worked. The method shown for converting the block is how I was taught in school. But that is is not how it is done. Only in the past 15 years or so have I learn how it was done by British armorers on the Martini Henry and then later by the gunsmiths at BSA.

BSA only used one breech block for both rim fire and center fire. BSA adjusted striker impact by adjusting the length of the horns of the lever.

The offset striker is American thing and still requires the adjustment of the horns to get it right. The breech block does need bushed for center fire.

One thing that seems to be misunderstood is how to adjust the load position. The gentlemen doing this conversion does not know how to make the adjustment.
Martini lever movement has two positions. The first "nearly opened" position is maintained by striker spring tension. If the lever is pressed forward from this position the block under striker tension then allows the insertion or removal of a case from the chamber. The modified rimfire block would not lower sufficiently to allow the insertion and removal of the 5.6x50R or the .25-20 WCF rounds. The bottom of the block had to have metal removed to allow the block to drop further.
This wrong.  It is very easy to adjust the block position up and down, by drawing or shortening the horns. The breech block is also the locking lug and should never be modified in this manner described by the is gentleman.  Adjusting the load position is very simple. The web between the horns where the tumbler rests is either cut down or drawn out. Here are the instructions from the Martini Henry Armorers Manual poste ob our gunsmith forum. It also covers adjusting for striker height. We have had theses instructions posted in the gunsmithing forum.  These instructions were first published late 1870's early 1880.  Both striker postion and a load position adjustment  are 10 minute bench jobs and not 2 hour machine jobs.   A Martini take down set up that is rimfire/centerfire, correctly done, will have a separate trigger group for each and all the the center fire heads will be the same diameter.



The method of using the tapered cross pin for barrel take down was not used for a very long as  BSA found the taper pin came loose on firing.  One of my  Model 12 Martini has the cross pin.  I relined my barrel to 17HM2 using this cross pin system. That pin was always coming loose you could feel it wiggle when you shot.  I finally set the barrel back a turn so it was a conventional interference fit. and clean the groove up for the taper pin so the pin did not touch. 

You can get a copy of the Armorers manual from Amazon for a bout $6.  https://www.amazon.com/INSTRUCTIONS-ARM ... ni+Enfield

You have a very ambitious project in front of you, good luck with it.  Do please keep us updated.
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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joelblack88
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 01 Feb 2006, 03:21

27 Mar 2017, 20:09 #11

Back in the early 60's I built a miniature Martini on a .22 LR BSA take down action  that worked for both 22 LR and .218 Mashburn Bee using the same same breech block with a bushed firing pin hole. Trial and error plus patience got the centerfire strike dead center. At the time I thought I was being ingenious as I did not know that's the way it was done in England.
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Fazer
Sergeant Major
Joined: 04 Jun 2002, 21:35

01 Jul 2017, 15:44 #12

Finally got a reply from the nephew. He has some machine time. I asked about different calibers and such, but too much gin farting around, he liked this suggestion. You cut to suit you caliber. Any suggestions for the height of the bar.


Also I came across, what I thought was a 310 extractor, but it is a bit shorter in the overall height, any ideas where it may have come from.





Chip
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Fazer
Sergeant Major
Joined: 04 Jun 2002, 21:35

02 Jul 2017, 17:21 #13

I reread this and it is not all that clear. By height I mean from A to B
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VaqueroJoel
O/R
Joined: 26 Mar 2017, 13:53

02 Jul 2017, 23:04 #14

I would be intrested in several especialy if they were solid like the rimfire ectractors, i.e. not "U" shaped but a solid flat area with a cutout for the cartridge rim.

Joel
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martinibelgian
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 17 Mar 2002, 05:43

04 Jul 2017, 06:35 #15

I could always use a few too...
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Duncaninfrance.britishmilitariaforums
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 22 Feb 2008, 21:04

04 Jul 2017, 08:10 #16

Me too.........
“Those who live by the sword are usually shot by those of us who don’t”

Ad Muncher
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