Accoutrement

For discussion of the Snider-Enfield and its related arms such as the Tabatier and Braedlin-Albini.

Moderators: Johnny Yuma, GrantR Canada, Carignan Salieres, The Double D, Viclav

Accoutrement

Dave Fox
Lance Corporal
Dave Fox
Lance Corporal
Joined: 09 Jan 2018, 23:16

11 Feb 2018, 18:41 #1

    Web site includes "accoutrements" as a subject, but we've got no accoutrement heading, so, with apologies, I'll post my query here. To go with my new-to-me 3-band Snider, I want to acquire an expense pouch and matching bayonet frog. Have  black and  russet "snake" belts. Generally, who wore russet and who else, if anyone,  wore black, other than rifle regiments? Thanks.
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Dave Fox
Lance Corporal
Dave Fox
Lance Corporal
Joined: 09 Jan 2018, 23:16

11 Feb 2018, 21:24 #2

Here's a russet belt I obtained in the 1970s which was supposed to be 19th Century British of some sort gww 1182.jpg
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CQMS
Corporal
CQMS
Corporal
Joined: 09 Sep 2017, 20:49

11 Feb 2018, 23:03 #3

As far as I understand it, only the rifle regiments wore black equipment, brown leather was for other infantry units. 
If I am wrong, others will correct me.

Do not know about your buckle, never seen one like that before. Any maker's marks or stamps on the back?

Cheers,
CQMS
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CQMS
Corporal
CQMS
Corporal
Joined: 09 Sep 2017, 20:49

11 Feb 2018, 23:05 #4

For brown, read russet.

CQMS
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GJames
O/R
Joined: 15 Mar 2009, 20:07

11 Feb 2018, 23:47 #5

Ihave a set similar to this with a rectangular cartridge box I was given by Val Forgette, founder of Navy Arms a number of years ago. They were supposedly used by the British Indian Army c. 1880s-'90s as I recollect 
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Dave Fox
Lance Corporal
Dave Fox
Lance Corporal
Joined: 09 Jan 2018, 23:16

12 Feb 2018, 01:19 #6

Navy Arms may have been the source of this one, too. I recall the boxes. Wonder if they were expense pouches. This one is totally unmarked, belt plate nor leather.
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GJames
O/R
Joined: 15 Mar 2009, 20:07

12 Feb 2018, 01:54 #7

In John Fabb's "The Army in India a Photographic Record 1850-1914", there are several photos of Indian soldiers wearing the sets (pgs, 114-117). They are armed with Sniders. He dates the photos from c. 1887.
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Hammer
Corporal
Hammer
Corporal
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 20:35

12 Feb 2018, 15:18 #8

Dave, you can't do better than see the series of YouTube videos by our friend BritishMuzzleloaders. Rob's series covers the uniforms and kit of the British soldier through the 19th Century with tips of where to buy the items.   First rate.
Enjoy, 
Peter.
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victoriasown
Corporal
Joined: 22 Aug 2017, 21:11

13 Feb 2018, 21:15 #9

Here is my set I’ve had for years, Garry may be correct where they came from. In the old days of scrambling to put a Victorian British kit together here in the US we all “dug” very deep. Mine has a number 26 on the inside middle of the belt. The bayonet frog has a number 21.....fun stuff! Mike
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325C7CF6-0DA3-4E2A-8E35-2CAB3EB3B799.jpeg
B2D16BC3-ADF9-4752-A007-24061EF64F73.jpeg
553CB6F1-AD32-4C42-9955-0D12EC4ED874.jpeg
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GrantR Canada
Veteran of the Regiment
GrantR Canada
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 25 Jan 2003, 02:56

14 Feb 2018, 04:54 #10

Brown or russet leather equipment may have been used by some Volunteer or Militia units, but from well before the Snider-Enfield was being issued, until well after, British Regular Infantry had whitened buff leather equipment, and Rifles had black - 

Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
("Rattlesnake Jack Robson", Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, 1885)
WEBSITE: "RATTLESNAKE JACK'S" 
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Viclav
Veteran of the Regiment
Viclav
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 13 Mar 2003, 22:38

14 Feb 2018, 21:50 #11

A detail from Godfrey Pitney Merry's THE ARTIST'S RIFLES IN CAMP, ALDERSHOT IN ENGLAND from the National Army Museum, which dates the painting to 1884. Note the belts and pouches... Artists Rifles Detail sm.jpg

Victor

"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."
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GrantR Canada
Veteran of the Regiment
GrantR Canada
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 25 Jan 2003, 02:56

14 Feb 2018, 22:02 #12

Yes, to clarify (in keeping with my earlier posting) The Artist's Rifles were a Volunteer unit, not Regulars ...  

For that matter, it is interesting to note that they are armed with Snider-Enfield rifles at that late date ...
Grant Rombough
Medicine Hat, Alberta
Canada
("Rattlesnake Jack Robson", Scout, Rocky Mountain Rangers, 1885)
WEBSITE: "RATTLESNAKE JACK'S" 
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rd72
Veteran of the Regiment
rd72
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 05:13

15 Feb 2018, 06:41 #13

Those are interesting examples of brown leather accoutrements.  The belt shown by Dave and by Mike are not of Ordnance pattern and, I suspect, part of a set that would have been privately purchased by the County Association governing the Volunteer unit it would have been issued to.  Volunteers were not supplied by the Army but rather by local purchase through the County.  Thus they typically had different sets of equipment to what the Army was using... that said, often they used the same set in the appropriate colour.  
Cheers,Rob
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