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loiner1965
Veteran of the Regiment
loiner1965
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: August 30th, 2010, 12:37 pm

June 8th, 2018, 8:13 pm #21

nice rifle mate.....was bidding on one recently in a uk auction site,,,,,was this the one that got away ?
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loiner1965
Veteran of the Regiment
loiner1965
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: August 30th, 2010, 12:37 pm

June 9th, 2018, 6:50 am #22

hi jon
this was the one i was bidding on too from a uk auction lockdales i believe,,,,from memory they said it was worn and the rifling was worn too but i guess from your pics it was just dirty lol.
glad it went to a caring person like yourself mate.
one thing in auctions i never get involved in a bidding war and just bid what i want to lose and no more...will keep an eye on this thread with interest 
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heelerau
Veteran of the Regiment
heelerau
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: July 12th, 2011, 7:25 pm

June 9th, 2018, 9:02 am #23

One small butterfly spring..............I wonder where that goes? MMMMMMMM!   I reckon a few paper patched bullets and the bore will slick up nicely. I agree about less pristine arms, less worry about using them than a pristine or unfired version. So long as the rifle is sound, and the bore good or better that is what mostly counts.  Will be interested to see how she comes up and how she groups. Good luck. 
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

June 9th, 2018, 9:44 am #24

It was the Lockdale one. I to only bid where I want to be as there will always be another along given time. I decide my price where I'm comfortable, then add £20. Never bid exactly on the £100 marks. Sometimes you can tell the auctioneer +1 which means if bidding is tight then you you will go 1 bid over if you really have to. This came in £20 under my mark.

Improved Martini it maybe!!. Simple it's not. I think there's about 16 individual pieces associated with the receiver.
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

June 9th, 2018, 1:11 pm #25

Will post sequential pics of reassembly later on.
Any thought on cleaning out the chequerig other than patience and a good magnifier?
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
The Double D
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: March 11th, 2003, 5:45 am

June 10th, 2018, 3:41 pm #26

Linseed oil to soften debris, soft  brush to clean. Keep debris wet while cleaning
Douglas

"And don't forget.  That isn't your Martini you have.  It  belonged to others before you and will belong to others after you are gone.  Look after it, and pass it on with pride. It deserves it."  Malcolm Cobb,  The Martini Henry Note-book
*********
To find things Martini go to: WWW.MartiniHenry.com
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

June 11th, 2018, 12:12 pm #27

Pictures of the internals which may not necessarily be in order
Mainly for anyone who's taken one apart and is wondering where a part fitted or which way up it was.
Overall very pleased with all the mechanicals but the stock definitely has issues hidden away.

This little catch picks up the slim spring and puts some friction onto the leaver.

WRC int a.jpg
On assembly this us where the hammer position needs to be to get everythig to fit nicely.
WRC int b.jpg
Trigger spring in place and held by the cross pin. To compress the spring so as to get the pin through a piece of  9mm ply fills the gap. 
The spring sits well back into the recess and nudges up to a lip on the forward trigger pivot.
WRC int c.jpg
I think this acts as the under block spring.
WRC int d.jpg
Then just slide it together and insrt the bolts.
WRC int e.jpg

WRC int f.jpg
The slim spring has a forward right-angle arm (see earlier pics) which enters a hole in the forend retaining block which will also overlay the edge of the spring by about 2mm. Get that in correctly and finger pressure is enough to move the other end sidways and down under the lip of pressure pivot to seat it.  
WRC int g.jpg
The larger spring looked more difficult but actually proved dead easy once I realised to slide the top edge back into the lever recess, then pick up the lower arm of the sprig and seat that on the underside of the barrel. That leaves the spring sitting skewed so just push sideways and it will seat perfectly.
Job done
WRC int h.jpg
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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rnd30
O/R
Joined: January 7th, 2008, 2:39 am

June 16th, 2018, 1:42 pm #28

What a lovely carbine!

There's a nice little article on rifles like this here 
http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol052fm.html

I used to think that WR carbines were universally used in 1881, based on photographs of the Boer officers of the time - then I realised from this photo that the photographer had one carbine, bandolier, hat etc in his studio as props for them each to use in turn!
Screen Shot 2018-06-16 at 13.52.27.png
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

June 16th, 2018, 5:39 pm #29

Fascinating link there, my thanks
The 1 and 2 cartridge are mentioned but not the 1½. 
Got the hat, must get a bandoleer on order

Here's another http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/clas ... -1869.html 
He has an interesting perspective on the term "Improved"
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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Tacolneston
Veteran of the Regiment
Tacolneston
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: November 2nd, 2003, 1:04 am

June 16th, 2018, 7:36 pm #30

As you're now know how to strip and reassemble you might not need the information - but for routine cleaning the block pops out of the top, just like a Martini.   

For reloading any .458" bullet is fine.  Mine liked the Lyman 457191, but these days it usually gets fed with the Lee 350 grain bullet, as that one comes from a double cavity mould. 

If you're going to put it on your FAC you might want to talk to your firearms licensing department.  Mine had a problem listing the calibre as 500/450 1 1/2", and it went down as a generic .500/.450 - as did all my other variations on the 500/450 case.

Roy
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

June 17th, 2018, 8:15 am #31

I had a look at the list and there is a Westley Richards .45 but not in 1 1/2. Then just below it there's a .45 Black Powder Express 
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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Robbie
Sergeant
Robbie
Sergeant
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 6:34 am

June 17th, 2018, 2:34 pm #32

#1: Not being "improved" am I correct in thinking it's early production by the number  or is that meaningless.

The highest serial number of these '69 Pattern guns I have is 3249 - that's before Westley Richards went on to produce the '71 version, so I'm a bit dubious of the 'date' 1/4/74, could we have a photo, please. NA&A started to date barrels in '81, but only included the month and year.
Very few S. African guns have Magistrates Numbers, most snuck through without being recorded.
Kind regards, Rob.
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

June 17th, 2018, 2:58 pm #33

This is how it appears under the barrel.
I'd assumed it to be a date.

wrc UB.jpg
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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Tacolneston
Veteran of the Regiment
Tacolneston
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: November 2nd, 2003, 1:04 am

June 17th, 2018, 2:59 pm #34

It's on the list as the "500/450 No 1 Carbine", using a Hoyem reference.  Westley Richards marked their barrels 1 1/2" for a nominal case length, although Hoyem gives the case length as 1 9/16".

I've just had a look under my barrel.  It is stamped 19/1.  It doesn't have any letters near the number, but has AA just in front of the lug.  The carbine has a 3 digit serial number.
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Robbie
Sergeant
Robbie
Sergeant
Joined: May 30th, 2009, 6:34 am

June 17th, 2018, 6:04 pm #35

To me it doesn't 'feel' like a Victorian font, 1974 is, IMO, more likely. NA&A 8-83.JPG
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TH
Veteran of the Regiment
TH
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 6:36 pm

June 17th, 2018, 10:56 pm #36

WR probably had different serial number ranges, so dating is a bit hit and miss

There was a batch of 450 No. 1 carbines around your serial number and numbers in the 8/900 range dated 1882/3 (Winfer and Kirton)

My own, (posted here somewhere) in .450 x 1 1/2" carbine - almost identical except for the South Africa sights No.591 is listed as a.450 No 2 Musket back position target rifle! (And 2-14 under the barrel)

"Improved MH" is a misnomer that is generally accepted but they were in reality a competitor to the MH
 
Henry Krank has cases here in the U.K. But his prices have doubled recently so give Pommy the business!

The chequering is a later addition but part of its history so I would just clean it as advised 

I always thought these were ugly but having this one and a .577/500 dangerous game rifle I find them strangely attractive 

Good luck in your shooting, I always put minimum info on FAC applications, .450 calibre is ok

Tony 
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

July 3rd, 2018, 3:39 pm #37

Just started inletting a few small pieces in the stock.
These ones won't show as they're under the receiver tangs. 
I'm thinking stocks are still Walnut but always best to ask for confirmation.
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
flintlockandsteel
Veteran of the Regiment
Joined: January 21st, 2011, 5:38 pm

July 4th, 2018, 9:39 am #38

Got the first little piece in and it's eliminated the slop.
However it really has emphasized how long the loose stock issue must have been going on.
I was thinking to insert slivers to fill the gaps (still will have to do some) but now think I might be better cutting the wrist profile back about 3mm.
This will bring in the top and bottom shoulders to meet the receiver. The rounded profile can then be repaired tidily.

Any other thoughts on how best to proceed?
WR1869 wrist a.jpg WR1869 wrist b.jpg
[font]"Luck occurs when planning (or research) meets opportunity"[/font] .... unknown
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singleshotcajun
Lance Corporal
singleshotcajun
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 25th, 2016, 4:25 pm

July 4th, 2018, 11:52 am #39

The Double D wrote: Linseed oil to soften debris, soft  brush to clean. Keep debris wet while cleaning
Used soft toothbrush is what I use. I tell the Misses not to through them away but save them for my antique rifle endeavors. Sometime I mix in a spot of turpentine with the linseed oil for conservatory cleaning if the gunk is stubborn.
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singleshotcajun
Lance Corporal
singleshotcajun
Lance Corporal
Joined: July 25th, 2016, 4:25 pm

July 4th, 2018, 12:03 pm #40

For a hidden repair I use small bits of hardwood dowel pin. Blind holes in stock and donor wood wallowed a bit then put together using Brownell’s Acraglass gel, after curing rasp and sand to blend. For anything romotely military I do not attempt to make the repair perfect but appear to be a arsenal type of repair. Brownell’s Acraglass gel is all I will use for repairing wooden stocks.
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