TONY AWARDS 2016

Joined: 6:43 PM - Mar 11, 2007

5:26 PM - Sep 25, 2018 #1

hi folks,
how come there were no news stories on this website about the in- memorium
during the tony awards show in 2016?
db was honoured, as should have been, obviously.
at the mention of his name and pictures, applause from the audience.
this only happens for very few stars. the great man was appreciated by the broadway community.
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Joined: 6:29 PM - Jan 17, 2009

5:29 PM - Sep 25, 2018 #2

Fuck me for not watching.
"Schtum!"
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Joined: 6:43 PM - Mar 11, 2007

7:33 PM - Sep 25, 2018 #3

that is not gentlemanly or respectful.
db was a generalist, not just a rock star par excellence.
his acting career also deserves attention.
mind your p,s and q,s
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

11:47 AM - Sep 26, 2018 #4

His acting career deserves attention? Apart from The Elephant Man who’s entire performance no one thought to film as far as we know, Baal, and TMWFTE, most of it is best forgotten. Everything else he did was either pretty average, pretty dire, bit parts, or voiceovers.

I haven’t seen this awards show but I suspect he got applause simply because he was David Bowie.

David Bowie was just that! a rock star par excellence, everything else was just a distraction from his real talent.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

12:45 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #5

SHHWEEET! wrote: Apart from The Elephant Man who’s entire performance no one thought to film as far as we know, Baal, and TMWFTE, most of it is best forgotten.
Indeed. And the apparent failure to film a performance of The Elephant Man (not even by the theatre company for reference purposes) means we don't really know how good it actually was. Was Bowie's performance well-received because his acting was good or did he get a pass because his acting was 'good for a pop star'?
I expect theatre critics would've been more than happy to put the boot in if he'd not been up to scratch, so there's a clue there, but it's difficult to judge when you've not seen it yourself. I do remember the BBC excerpts from many years ago, but haven't seen them (or Baal) since they were broadcast and I dunno how I'd view them with a few decade's hindsight.
Having said all that, while Elephant Man, Baal and TMWFTE will always be the ones to go to for Bowie's acting, he was pretty good as the hapless pillock
in Jazzin For Blue Jean, too - although I suspect he didn't have much competition for the role... 😉   
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Joined: 6:43 PM - Mar 11, 2007

1:56 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #6

it just so happens that i saw the elephant man on broadway. rock star or not, bowie's performance
was both brilliant and believable. even the critics gave him rave reviews. these ny critics don`t give
glowing reviews for who you are, but rather for your actual ability to put across a role...imagine that!!!!!!
now you are entitled to your opinions on roles you have seen him in, but if you never saw him live on stage in
the role of john merrick, your critiques don't register.

as for movie roles...how about the prestige, the last temptation of christ, the hunger and 
merry christmas, mr lawrence...i say well done mr. bowie

and last but not least, his actual rock-star roles like the thin white duke, who i saw live,
ziggy stardust, halloween jack and even nathan adler...were they not acting roles as well?
it takes a great actor to give believable performance on stage and film.
that was why bowie tours and other performances were always the most anticipated in showbiz...bar none.
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Joined: 6:43 PM - Mar 11, 2007

2:14 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #7

and speaking of nathan adler, who i saw live at the tour opener in connecticut,
didn"t it take guts to tour outside with so few familiar songs of his i.e. hits 
in front of a not all fan based audience?
acting got him through the performance and subsequent ones.
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

2:52 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #8

edetley wrote:it just so happens that i saw the elephant man on broadway. rock star or not, bowie's performance was both brilliant and believable. 
Fair enough, edetley - can't argue with someone who saw it firsthand!
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

5:43 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #9

Although, no, I wouldn't consider Ziggy, Aladdin Sane, Halloween Jack or the Thin White Duke as 'acting roles'.
I know Bowie called them 'characters' and reckoned he was 'playing my part, right down the line', but I don't think they're genuine 'acting roles' such as Thomas Jerome Newton or Baal - more like personas he adopted. Similar - but not quite the same thing?
 
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Joined: 11:05 AM - Feb 24, 2018

6:14 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #10

I thought he was excellent as Warhol in Basquiat.
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Joined: 11:05 AM - Feb 24, 2018

6:16 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #11

apart from the 10 years or so that he disappeared from the public view could he have been said to be acting everyday as Bowie only to shed the skin at home and be Jones . . . 
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Joined: 6:43 PM - Mar 11, 2007

6:31 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #12

personas, characters, roles...they are all parts of the person acting out.
be it small roles in films like into the night or the fantastic basquiat,
or in tours such as the year of the diamond dogs or isolar, bowie played it like no rocker could.
he put on a show, unlike the majority of rock stars before and since. he was music and spectacle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

7:24 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #13

edetley wrote: as for movie roles...how about the prestige, the last temptation of christ, the hunger and 
merry christmas, mr Lawrence
Pretty average to be honest.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

7:26 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #14

Larranaga wrote: Although, no, I wouldn't consider Ziggy, Aladdin Sane, Halloween Jack or the Thin White Duke as 'acting roles'.
I know Bowie called them 'characters' and reckoned he was 'playing my part, right down the line', but I don't think they're genuine 'acting roles' such as Thomas Jerome Newton or Baal - more like personas he adopted. Similar - but not quite the same thing?
 

Exactly.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 11:06 AM - Oct 31, 2017

7:59 PM - Sep 26, 2018 #15

Bowie was no great actor, he just fitted the part or he didn't,  The Man Who Fell To Earth, being a prime example of a role which he fitted perfectly.  Well cast for the part, he did a pretty respectable job, although initially on release his performance was knocked by many a critic.  With regard to Ziggy and Co.  Larranaga's statement that they are hardly the same thing, is sound reasoning.
Respectfully,  you are a tad deluded edetley. 
 
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

5:12 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #16

edetley wrote:  if you never saw him live on stage in
the role of john merrick, your critiques don't register.
I did, as a 16 yo Bowie mad kid on his first trip to New York. And he was bloody awful. Excruciatingly bad. Even worse than the Mr Wooden performances that he gave on screen, he really went for it on stage in this: screeching away in a big nappy.  He did what we used to (horribly ) call a 'mong' voice. Jeez.. I am cringing recalling it.  I'm sorry, you are talking out of your arse Edetley. 
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

5:30 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #17

I’m just waiting for someone to  say Bowie was brilliant in Labyrinth.😂

That would put the proverbial tin hat on this thread.
Last edited by SHHWEEET! on 5:35 PM - Sep 27, 2018, edited 1 time in total.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

5:31 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #18

edetley wrote: personas, characters, roles...they are all parts of the person acting out.
No, they're not you silly bastard. I have played the role of a father for many years, have a studied professional persona that engages with clients around pretty serious matters,  and am even a bit of a 'character' down the pub, but I couldn't act my  way out of  a  sodding paper bag.  Sadly, nor could the dear old Dame. 
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

5:33 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #19

SHHWEEET! wrote: I’m just waiting for someone to  say Bowie was brilliant in Labyrinth, that would put the proverbial tin hat on this thread.
Apparently he was upstaged by his package in that one.
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Joined: 8:22 PM - Jul 24, 2008

5:38 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #20

The Prestige is a great film, I don’t mind him being hammy in it at all, in fact I think it fits well into a story about science vs magic, Tesla v Edison, AC v DC etc. Very astute of him to take the role at a time when he wasn’t doing much publicly. 
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

5:48 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #21

It's not a 'great' film at all, don't exaggerate man!  But, yes, there are roles his style was better suited to - I can buy him as the alien in MWFTE - the stiffness  and awkwardness seems apt
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

5:54 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #22

Bowie could ham it up with the best of them but does that warrant a load of applause at something like the Tony awards?

It amuses me that Bowie fans think Bowie could act?

NEWS FLASH!

He couldn’t.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

5:59 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #23

the_starman wrote: No, they're not you silly bastard. 
😆
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

6:18 PM - Sep 27, 2018 #24

Larranaga wrote:
the_starman wrote: No, they're not you silly bastard. 
😆
😂
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 11:06 AM - Oct 31, 2017

8:31 AM - Sep 28, 2018 #25

SHHWEEET! wrote: I’m just waiting for someone to  say Bowie was brilliant in Labyrinth.😂

That would put the proverbial tin hat on this thread.
Labyrinth is a great family film and Bowie was pretty good I thought.  He certainly looked great.  I am not sure Phil Collins (or whoever else, may have been considered for the part), could have furnished the film with such an iconic and memorable Jareth?  He delivered the role with a certain "cardboard menace", but as a kids film and of its age,I am not sure that this wasn't totally appropriate.  It looks like Bowie was directed to a greater degree in this than TMWFTE and it was beyond his acting ability, to deliver what others (namely the director) expected from him for the character.  Still, like it or loath it, and many LOVE IT! Labyrinth wouldn't be what it is without him. 
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

9:54 AM - Sep 28, 2018 #26

I've quite deliberately never seen Labyrinth - but I'm glad it exists if only because it gave Jarvis Cocker the chance to put his finger and thumb about two inches apart
and tell Jonathan Ross that Bowie's 'tail looked about that big in it'! Ross couldn't believe what he'd heard and went 'His tail? His tail?!'
Guess he'd not heard many Sheffieldisms before that... 
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

12:13 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #27

bianniottonaim wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote: I’m just waiting for someone to  say Bowie was brilliant in Labyrinth.😂

That would put the proverbial tin hat on this thread.
He delivered the role with a certain "cardboard menace", but as a kids film and of its age,I am not sure that this wasn't totally appropriate.  It looks like Bowie was directed to a greater degree in this than TMWFTE and it was beyond his acting ability, to deliver what others (namely the director) expected from him for the character.  Still, like it or loath it, and many LOVE IT! Labyrinth wouldn't be what it is without him. 
But that’s the point here isn’t it, he delivered the role with a certain cardboard menace, emphasis on the cardboard.

Whether someone is a fan of Bowie’s cardboard, stilted, hamming up acting or not, the guy just wasn’t a great or even good an actor, certainly not good enough to win any film awards or get a standing ovation at a show that celebrates that discipline.

Bowie was out of this world as a rock / pop star and performer, why he couldn’t just recognise his true outstanding talent and leave the acting alone is beyond me? Who knows if he had we might have had even more brilliant albums and seen even more brilliant tours than what we luckily got.  

I’m a big believer in playing to ones strengths and acting for Bowie wasn’t one of his.
Last edited by SHHWEEET! on 3:36 PM - Sep 28, 2018, edited 1 time in total.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

12:32 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #28

What makes me smile is the apparent conceit of many a pop star that acting is just an extension of what they do (the doltish Edetley commits the same non sequitur above). I imagine all those actors who spend years training and refining their craft must love that. It's like those soft lads and lassies you get on X factor whining that 'singing is my life' but do they take lessons? Do they actually work on the craft? Nah, too much effort. 
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

1:57 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #29

'Emphasis on the cardboard' - excellent.
I've never understood why pop stars think they can act, either - it is, indeed, an oddly recurring conceit.
Me, I'm thankful that Bowie and Jagger never followed up their idea to remake Some Like It Hot.
Not in public, anyway...
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

5:17 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #30

Larranaga wrote: 'Emphasis on the cardboard' - excellent.
We all say Bowie was great in TMWFTE, I’m as guilty as anyone, but when you really think about it when we watch that film do we get totally lost in Bowie’s portrayal of Newton and forget it’s David Bowie we are watching? Or do we watch and KNOW it’s Bowie we are watching and not Newton.

I’m pretty confident with most of us it’s the latter, that’s why we say  Bowie is good in it because he is playing Bowie and we all absolutely love Bowie, it’s not because his screen acting is good.

Bowie might have liked to think of himself as a great screen  or stage actor, but the only role he was ever really good at playing was David Bowie and goodness me did he play HIM well. You watched him in interviews and up on stage and every movement, mannerism, and thing he said was an act, carefully excecuted to the letter. Every look at the camera was an act and so on, in fact you could say Bowie was the ultimate cardboard rockstar. Everything was planned and executed deliberately, even down to nicking ideas from others and making them totally his own, the trouble was Jonesy played Bowie so well, “right down the middle” as the man himself said, that when he tried to genuinely try to act out a proper acting role for real in a film or a play he couldn’t shake off his cardboard alter ego. David Jones might have killed Ziggy because he feared his personality was taking him over, but the person he really should have been scared of was David Bowie.  

Odysseus nailed it further up this thread, Bowie totally nailed the biggest acting role you can which is to act yourself, or at least a version of yourself, the trouble is if you go down that route it leaves absolutely nothing else you can diverse into. You will never be a genuine screen / stage actor, you will never be a fully fledged and respected painter, you will never really be anything else. In David Robert Jones case he would always be a slave to David Bowie. He feared the madness that was in his family, he succumbed to it alright it just manifested itself as a cardboard persona.   

Beware what you wish for all you fame seeking budding rock / pop stars and X Factor contestants, It’s only as you get older as a fan of someone and take the blinkers of youth off that all this shit becomes really clear.

Fame what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

Should the Tony Awards crowd applaud his name? No absolutely not! Should the fans of David Bowie applaud and stand in admiration? Oh yes, without a doubt.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

6:53 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #31

'Played Bowie so well' Yes, I am sure that's right. But one thing that always struck me about Bowie was how awkward and ill at ease he could be in interviews - there were various masks he wore: the weird 'one' thinks this and 'one' thinks that faux prince Charles voice,  the manically chirpy cockney, the 'oh so serious artiste' shtick he'd put on in later years. I am told - and can well believe - that in real life he gabbled excitedly a lot and was very funny. He didn't show much of that side in public. 
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

7:42 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #32

the_starman wrote: 'Played Bowie so well' Yes, I am sure that's right. But one thing that always struck me about Bowie was how awkward and ill at ease he could be in interviews - there were various masks he wore: the weird 'one' thinks this and 'one' thinks that faux prince Charles voice,  the manically chirpy cockney, the 'oh so serious artiste' shtick he'd put on in later years. I am told - and can well believe - that in real life he gabbled excitedly a lot and was very funny. He didn't show much of that side in public. 
Your absolutely correct in your observation. David Jones had different personas of David Bowie in interviews depending on his mood, subject, person interviewing him etc. It’s fascinating to watch all his different interviews and spot all the deliberate ways he conducted himself, held himself, looked at the camera / interviewer, chose particular big words and sentences and all the rest of it.

I possibly incorrectly called the alter ego David Bowie a cardboard rock star because that would maybe suggest he was one dimensional in everything and he certainly wasn’t. David Bowie was an extremely complex persona, a persona with many sides and faces. The overal impression of all these different facets coming together to create a whole did have the unusual effect of creating a very cardboard like overall image though which we all loved and often identified with. It’s facinating stuff it really is. I’m no psychiatrist or anything like that, but my personal opinion is that I do believe the persona of David Bowie displayed all the classic hall marks of a guy with some sort of mental issue going on and I don’t mean that as an insult or a bad thing, but David Robert Jones definitely had issues.

I also do believe he was a very different person away from the limelight. One thing I don’t really regret is never actually meeting him in real life or actually getting to know him on a personal level, because I do believe the make believe bubble he surrounded himself with in public would have been one hell of a shattering of an illusion for me simply as a fan on the most basic of levels.

I believe that Alias David Bowie book by the Gillmans delves into this sort of stuff, I’ve never actually read it. I really will have to track down a copy for myself.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 11:06 AM - Oct 31, 2017

10:03 PM - Sep 28, 2018 #33

Ah! Now we're talkin', unfortunately edging away from the original topic a bit though. 
Charisma is the ticket.
"Anyone for Bowie, reading and Adolf Hitler"?
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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

6:50 AM - Sep 29, 2018 #34

I suspect it was simpler than that. His public MO was pretty typical of the working class autodidact  - the need to be seen as 'serious' and well informed, aping the accent and manners of the establishment one minute, showing his mockney 'street' cred the next,and yet never comfortable with either. I have always found the contrast with between Bowie's forced style and Iggy Pop's easy and memorable turn of phrase fascinating -  Iggy always seems entirely comfortable in his own skin. I remember a quote from an acquaintance of both that while Bowie dropped the names of writers into every sentence, Pop had actually read them. 
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Joined: 8:52 AM - Jun 10, 2003

11:31 AM - Sep 29, 2018 #35

Here are just a few examples of the rave reviews for Bowie in The Elephant Man:

https://www.denverpost.com/2016/01/11/d ... -morality/

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ay-100929/

Some interesting words from people who saw the play here:

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Joined: 2:53 PM - Mar 22, 2013

12:37 PM - Sep 29, 2018 #36

The  world famous Denver Post and that well known paper of record for the theatre go-er Rolling Stone? And of course the parts in major stage productions and film just rolled in afterwards.

Have a peek and make your own mind up 
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Joined: 8:52 AM - Jun 10, 2003

5:51 PM - Sep 29, 2018 #37

the_starman wrote: The  world famous Denver Post and that well known paper of record for the theatre go-er Rolling Stone? And of course the parts in major stage productions and film just rolled in afterwards.

Have a peek and make your own mind up 
Yellowbeard, for one.
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

11:32 AM - Oct 01, 2018 #38

Yep, that was definitely the 'mong' voice that every 1970s school kid had down pat!  
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Joined: 11:06 AM - Oct 31, 2017

3:39 PM - Oct 01, 2018 #39

It's a difficult thing to judge his performance in this, without taking the the way he uses his voice into account, as it does detract somewhat.  The truth is, it has both to carry and be intelligible.  A more plausible slur-like voice like John Hurt utilized in the film would be totally unsuitable in a theatre setting.    
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Joined: 8:13 AM - Jul 22, 2018

5:22 PM - Oct 01, 2018 #40

The clips of Bowie’s Elephant Man that we do have look really professionally filmed, are we sure that whole thing wasn’t actually filmed and just hasn’t yet seen the light of day?

Also I wonder if the Lazarus stage show was filmed? Surely it was.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: 9:49 AM - Apr 20, 2012

5:42 PM - Oct 01, 2018 #41

Agreed, this does look 'pro-shot', as the saying goes.
The first part of it also looks very like how I remember the clips that the BBC broadcast at the time - couldn't swear to that, though, as I only saw it that one time.
No idea if the BBC actually filmed the excerpt they showed or licenced it from an American broadcaster -
and this version is from 'rage', a late 1980s Australian programme that showed promo videos.
As a legitimate programme, they must've licenced it officially, but who knows who they acquired it from. 
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