so I was thinking about the S+V tour...

so I was thinking about the S+V tour...

Joined: October 11th, 2003, 8:21 pm

July 25th, 2011, 4:18 pm #1

...and I was wondering...


so - Adrian Belew played on the Low/'Heroes' Tour, and was quite good... no annoying screeches, he actually sounded like he was playing a guitar, etc

and he also did quite a nice job when he toured with the Talking Heads...

but then WHY THE HELL did he play the way he did for the Sound and Vision tour?


...or is it that his 'unique style' of playing becomes more prominent when he's not playing with a larger band? Is it just that style depends on a strong backing band, and the S+V tour band was just... well, not up to snuff?


(edit)

and on a side note... correct me if I'm wrong... but hasn't EVERY lead guitarist Bowie's had (for tours) played "Jean Genie"
Last edited by biro_the_leggy on July 25th, 2011, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 8th, 2010, 8:40 pm

July 25th, 2011, 4:38 pm #2

i didn't see the sound and vision tour...did you like adrian belews playing?...what about jean genie?...
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Joined: April 9th, 2005, 12:53 am

July 25th, 2011, 5:09 pm #3

I saw it in Edinburgh and really, it has to be the worst band Bowie has ever put together for a tour. The venue didn't help either, Ingleston is basically a huge tin shed. Belew wasn't that bad, but the band as a whole unit is pretty forgettable. 'Ode To Joy' being played over the PA dead loud, just before Bowie came on was brilliant, though.

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
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Joined: May 25th, 2005, 12:22 am

July 25th, 2011, 5:21 pm #4

...and I was wondering...


so - Adrian Belew played on the Low/'Heroes' Tour, and was quite good... no annoying screeches, he actually sounded like he was playing a guitar, etc

and he also did quite a nice job when he toured with the Talking Heads...

but then WHY THE HELL did he play the way he did for the Sound and Vision tour?


...or is it that his 'unique style' of playing becomes more prominent when he's not playing with a larger band? Is it just that style depends on a strong backing band, and the S+V tour band was just... well, not up to snuff?


(edit)

and on a side note... correct me if I'm wrong... but hasn't EVERY lead guitarist Bowie's had (for tours) played "Jean Genie"
When it comes down to it...Bowie is the man responsible for his his band and it's sound!

'You start out wrinkled and you cry...you end up wrinkled and you die.'
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Joined: April 9th, 2005, 12:53 am

July 25th, 2011, 5:23 pm #5

Can't argue with that assessment!! The buck stops with Bowie!

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
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Joined: October 19th, 2004, 4:32 pm

July 25th, 2011, 5:40 pm #6

I have some bootlegs from that tour, Some shows Bowie's voice is in horrible shape, along with a mediocre band and boring setlist it wasn't one of David's finest tours.
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Joined: October 11th, 2003, 8:21 pm

July 25th, 2011, 5:53 pm #7

diglazdig - sorry I just re-read my original message, I was a bit distracted when I wrote it (and it kinda shows), so I'll clear it up a bit...


no, I didn't see the S+V Tour, but I absolutely hated the way Belew played on that tour (from what I've heard via bootlegs, and what I've seen through various video clips, dvd's, vhs's, etc)

and when I was writing the message about how bad I thought his playing sounded on that tour, it suddenly popped into my head about Jean Genie (as I was also looking at two different downloads from different tours, and they both had "Jean Genie" on it)

and I realized -> man, Belew was able to play it in an non-annoying fashion during the Low/Heroes Tour, but why not during S+V... and I thought about how pretty much each and every guitarist of Bowie's has played that song, and you probably couldn't say that about other tracks.

And you could probably make an "interesting" compilation, or at least something to make comparisons between guitarists across Bowie's career using just that one song
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Joined: October 7th, 2004, 2:51 pm

July 25th, 2011, 6:05 pm #8

Wasn't it part of the deal to promote his back catalogue with EMI? I got the impression he didn't have much interest in it.

-----------------------------------------------
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Joined: December 4th, 2003, 5:40 pm

July 25th, 2011, 6:53 pm #9

...and I was wondering...


so - Adrian Belew played on the Low/'Heroes' Tour, and was quite good... no annoying screeches, he actually sounded like he was playing a guitar, etc

and he also did quite a nice job when he toured with the Talking Heads...

but then WHY THE HELL did he play the way he did for the Sound and Vision tour?


...or is it that his 'unique style' of playing becomes more prominent when he's not playing with a larger band? Is it just that style depends on a strong backing band, and the S+V tour band was just... well, not up to snuff?


(edit)

and on a side note... correct me if I'm wrong... but hasn't EVERY lead guitarist Bowie's had (for tours) played "Jean Genie"
The problem with the S&V band was not the quality of the musicians, they were great, but that there were too few of them. They should have had at least another guitarist, possibly a percussionist, and maybe another piano/keyboard player, as well as some backup singers.
The sound as I recall it, and as it sounds on the boots I've heard, is thin, thre is just not enough of it.
Belew therefore needs to be band master (like Alomar), soloist, additional keyboard sound (on ie Heroes) and many other things he was not up to, and was not able to do simultaneously.

He is a great guitarist, coupled with another guitarist (Alomar would have been perfect) he would have been remembered totally diffrent on this tour.
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Joined: June 25th, 2008, 9:47 am

July 25th, 2011, 6:58 pm #10

Wasn't it part of the deal to promote his back catalogue with EMI? I got the impression he didn't have much interest in it.

-----------------------------------------------
I wouldn't put it past Bowie to have instructed the band to ad lib a lot , especially as he was obliged to play his back catalogue ,you know yeah I'll do it but you'll hate it because right now I'm pissed off with it ? he was really killing time between TM ventures !
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Joined: November 28th, 2002, 2:54 pm

July 26th, 2011, 12:34 am #11

The problem with the S&V band was not the quality of the musicians, they were great, but that there were too few of them. They should have had at least another guitarist, possibly a percussionist, and maybe another piano/keyboard player, as well as some backup singers.
The sound as I recall it, and as it sounds on the boots I've heard, is thin, thre is just not enough of it.
Belew therefore needs to be band master (like Alomar), soloist, additional keyboard sound (on ie Heroes) and many other things he was not up to, and was not able to do simultaneously.

He is a great guitarist, coupled with another guitarist (Alomar would have been perfect) he would have been remembered totally diffrent on this tour.
The tour deserved a full band, Bowie's heart wasn't in it. I was fortunate enough to see 3 shows on that tour, Quebec City, Montreal, and Ottawa.I have never been happier to be a Scouser living in Canada, to see the opening 2 nights of a Bowie world tour, and then a 3rd months later when the sound and the vision had changed considerably was a rare treat. But at the end of the day it was a David Bowie world tour, the size and scope never likely to be repeated. If you manage to see the man live, regardless of band and setlist, you're lucky.
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Joined: March 24th, 2008, 11:28 pm

July 26th, 2011, 3:43 am #12

<p>I was really hyped for the show even though I knew the setlists had been relatively safe. I had hoped for more but I was glad I went...I didn't attend the second date though. Yeah between Tin Machine and obligations must've factored? Next gig was a wild one TM with bowie in boots and wig at the end ka-ra-zee!</p>
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Joined: October 31st, 2006, 5:16 pm

July 26th, 2011, 7:31 am #13

The problem with the S&V band was not the quality of the musicians, they were great, but that there were too few of them. They should have had at least another guitarist, possibly a percussionist, and maybe another piano/keyboard player, as well as some backup singers.
The sound as I recall it, and as it sounds on the boots I've heard, is thin, thre is just not enough of it.
Belew therefore needs to be band master (like Alomar), soloist, additional keyboard sound (on ie Heroes) and many other things he was not up to, and was not able to do simultaneously.

He is a great guitarist, coupled with another guitarist (Alomar would have been perfect) he would have been remembered totally diffrent on this tour.
Exactly, it was a great band. Very good musicians. But Bowie was in his Tin Machine phase and wanted a more back to basic approach. None of the musicians on that tour liked the tour and even Belew said that certain song arrangements were too sparse. He wanted for instance a saxophone on Young Americans etc. (according to Nick Pegg's Complete Bowie).
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Joined: August 19th, 2002, 9:08 am

July 26th, 2011, 8:15 am #14



I went to the Milton Keynes Bowl show on 4th August (fuck where have those 21 years gone!!!).

I found the sound really good at this out door venue but I believe it was alot different at the indoor venues.. I remember London Docklands Arena show getting luke warm reviews.

My only complaint was that thes et was too short.. Only 20 songs ( about an hour and a half)...After sitting through 3 crap support acts I expected more than that. It was the hottest day of the centuary that day so I put it down to the heat. I nearly died when Life On Mars was played just as the sun was going down behind the hill!!!!
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 5:22 pm

July 26th, 2011, 9:49 am #15

I think after the Glass Spider shows Mr B was under pressure to scale down his shows both musically and visually. Staging and Visually S&V was brilliant and set the tone for U2's ZooTV in 1993. I think Mr Pegg states that Bowie wanted Reeves for the S&V tour but he didnt want to compromise TM.
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 10:24 pm

July 26th, 2011, 8:53 pm #16

i saw it at the docklands arena! fkn awful sound .do people still play gigs there anymore? hope not. oh and it was a balls ache of a venue to get too as well.the set list was predictable and the backing band very average. apart from that i had a great time lol
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Joined: May 29th, 2009, 12:53 pm

July 26th, 2011, 9:25 pm #17

terrible tour. (again via boots coz i'm so much more youthful then y'all). space oddity=good opener but all the other arrangements sucked more than belew's ponytail. great player but this tour was lame. you'd probably see better performances at karaoke (coz the backing track would be better). and db's sax playing...cats in bags come to mind...

----------------------------

Come here mama....and dig this crazy scene
He's not too fancy....but his line is pretty clean
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 26th, 2011, 11:18 pm #18

Exactly, it was a great band. Very good musicians. But Bowie was in his Tin Machine phase and wanted a more back to basic approach. None of the musicians on that tour liked the tour and even Belew said that certain song arrangements were too sparse. He wanted for instance a saxophone on Young Americans etc. (according to Nick Pegg's Complete Bowie).
<p>Stripped down songs to match up somewhat with the Tin Machine phase - definitely. The thing I enjoyed most on this tour was the fact that every show was different.</p><p>Quite a bit of the vocal backings were from tape. You can clearly hear the Simms brothers on some of the songs on backing tracks taken from 83 tour.</p><p>The stage set was awesome. I wish there was something official on video.</p>
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 10:24 pm

July 26th, 2011, 11:25 pm #19

every show was different ???????????????????????
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 10:24 pm

July 26th, 2011, 11:31 pm #20

the stage set consisted of that fucking curtain going up and down every two minutes lol
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Joined: April 9th, 2005, 12:53 am

July 26th, 2011, 11:48 pm #21

Not in Edinburgh, it didn't. Bowie walked on, played his songs for a bit, then went away again! Apart from the big video screens, there weren't any curtains.

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 10:24 pm

July 27th, 2011, 12:16 am #22

was that the show where he opened with blue jean?
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Joined: April 9th, 2005, 12:53 am

July 27th, 2011, 12:29 am #23

No, he walked on playing Space Oddity.

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
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Joined: November 29th, 2003, 11:23 pm

July 27th, 2011, 4:31 pm #24

Blue Jean deff opened one of the Ingleston Shows.Listen to the tapes.
My view on S&V that it was a brilliant production but Bowie had a duff band. What it needed was Serious Moonlght band to do the songs justice they deserved.
could have been one of the best tours !!!!

ziggyson
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Joined: July 8th, 2011, 7:30 pm

July 27th, 2011, 5:24 pm #25

I remember taping a live broadcast of the show from Milton Keynes. I played the tape into the ground. I honestly felt, that "Life on Mars" as played at this gig, was the best version that I have heard. I don't think it was half as successfull, at some other shows, such as when played at the Tokyo show. I no longer have the recording, as it ate itself too many times to be any longer playable.
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Joined: December 7th, 2009, 7:07 pm

July 27th, 2011, 7:37 pm #26

Very good: Space oddity, China Girl, White light White heat, Station to Station (my favourite live version, Milton Keynes bowl), Panic in detroit (the Tokyo version is terrific) , Life on Mars, Changes (really like this uptempo version), Rebel Rebel.
Bad: Young Americans, Be my wife, TVC 15 (lifeless), Ziggy Stardust...
Interesting: Rock 'n roll suicide, John i'm only dancing, Stay (like this noisy version).

Adrian Belew 's playing : it was 1990, the time of Sonic Youth, Noisy pop etc...
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

July 27th, 2011, 8:42 pm #27

yes i taped the fm broadcast from milton keynes too.
not so long ago i dug it out and it was fucked.
now i have downloaded to my ipod
milton keynes, chile, buenos aires,tokyo and the rehearsals.

i was desparate for this to be released on video at the time, the rumours were it was filmed at a paris gig [paris au printemps gig possibly?]
but it was shelved god knows why.
it would have looked fantastic.

i think this tour has been given a hard time, i thought most of the arrangments sounded great particularly space oddity, life on mars, changes, station to station, white light, queen bitch, panic in detroit, ziggy stardust, pretty pink rose.

blue jean has opened a show, really, never heard that before.
i can't imagine that coming on after ode to joy surely not?

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Joined: April 9th, 2005, 12:53 am

July 27th, 2011, 8:52 pm #28

Almost everybody I know taped the Milton Keynes show at the time and straight away, David Neish and I recognised that he was doing 'Footstompin' during 'Fame'. Has anyone else noticed that?

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

July 27th, 2011, 11:29 pm #29

what are your best gigs from this tour?
i think milton keynes is pretty great as is chile and tokyo.

any others worth getting, what about paris?

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Joined: January 10th, 2011, 2:08 am

July 27th, 2011, 11:46 pm #30

I have these two.

http://helden.org.uk/o/overture&beginners.htm
same as
http://helden.org.uk/r/rehearsingsv.htm

http://helden.org.uk/p/parisauprintemps.htm

The Paris one is very nice.
The way the discs are done makes it looks official.
( see Bassmans )

Sam Therapy
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Joined: July 28th, 2004, 2:22 pm

July 28th, 2011, 2:14 am #31

I saw it in Edinburgh and really, it has to be the worst band Bowie has ever put together for a tour. The venue didn't help either, Ingleston is basically a huge tin shed. Belew wasn't that bad, but the band as a whole unit is pretty forgettable. 'Ode To Joy' being played over the PA dead loud, just before Bowie came on was brilliant, though.

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
I was at the Edinburgh show as well. Was disappointed that the location wasn't suitable for the screen. I saw the opening night in Birmingham and was blown away when he walked on stage into the spotlight and started playing Space Oddity.

Went to two nights in Birmingham I think. Was at Milton Keynes and Paris as well.

I actually loved this tour but did think musically it was quite minimalist. Wasn't impressed with Adrian Belew. I think he struggled with Life Of Mars.

He had that mad Turk in those days as well. Erdal Kazilky or something. Disappeared off the face of the Earth after that tour. Think he was with him in 87?

Loved the imagery. I was too young for the 76 and 78 tours so thought it was cool that he didn't have all the theatrics of 87.

I also think he looked like shit on this tour. His skin looked palid and his hair was shite!!
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Joined: September 5th, 2004, 7:27 pm

July 28th, 2011, 4:57 am #32

...and I was wondering...


so - Adrian Belew played on the Low/'Heroes' Tour, and was quite good... no annoying screeches, he actually sounded like he was playing a guitar, etc

and he also did quite a nice job when he toured with the Talking Heads...

but then WHY THE HELL did he play the way he did for the Sound and Vision tour?


...or is it that his 'unique style' of playing becomes more prominent when he's not playing with a larger band? Is it just that style depends on a strong backing band, and the S+V tour band was just... well, not up to snuff?


(edit)

and on a side note... correct me if I'm wrong... but hasn't EVERY lead guitarist Bowie's had (for tours) played "Jean Genie"
1st night at Birmingham Bowie walked out for a second encore - it seemed to take the roadies by surprise as they seemed to rush around trying to find the guitar.
He then sang an acoustic Rock 'n' Roll Suicide.
To this day it is one of my favourite Bowie live moments. Truly awesome. When he paused mid song after the 'oh no love' you could've heard a pin drop in that arena. Breathtaking.
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 5:22 pm

July 28th, 2011, 8:24 am #33

i saw it at the docklands arena! fkn awful sound .do people still play gigs there anymore? hope not. oh and it was a balls ache of a venue to get too as well.the set list was predictable and the backing band very average. apart from that i had a great time lol
Del, Docklands Arena was demolished 2006 once the O2 opened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Arena. I remember getting to Docklands early in the day and Mr B was soundchecking A2A and a side door was open and we just stood there watching but were not let in any further by a guard.
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 5:22 pm

July 28th, 2011, 8:25 am #34

1st night at Birmingham Bowie walked out for a second encore - it seemed to take the roadies by surprise as they seemed to rush around trying to find the guitar.
He then sang an acoustic Rock 'n' Roll Suicide.
To this day it is one of my favourite Bowie live moments. Truly awesome. When he paused mid song after the 'oh no love' you could've heard a pin drop in that arena. Breathtaking.
Del, Docklands Arena was demolished 2006 once the O2 opened.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Arena. I remember getting to Docklands early in the day and Mr B was soundchecking A2A and a side door was open and we just stood there watching but were not let in any further by a guard.

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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

July 28th, 2011, 11:18 am #35

is paris au printemps soundboard or just a good audience recording?

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2HB
Joined: August 24th, 2006, 12:48 pm

July 28th, 2011, 12:01 pm #36

The band where just crap. The net thingy was great. But overall the gigs I saw you could feel Bowie's heart wasn't in it. If he had picked a great band they could have been fantastic gigs.

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Joined: January 10th, 2011, 2:08 am

July 28th, 2011, 12:05 pm #37

is paris au printemps soundboard or just a good audience recording?
It is an audience recording.
This is Soundboard >http://helden.org.uk/v/VisionsAndSounds.htm

Sam Therapy
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Joined: November 9th, 2010, 2:31 pm

July 28th, 2011, 12:19 pm #38

is paris au printemps soundboard or just a good audience recording?
it seems to me a good audience recording but in truth i don't know !?

In my Milton bootleg i don't have Ode To Joy, someone knows why ?
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Joined: December 7th, 2009, 7:07 pm

July 28th, 2011, 3:59 pm #39

It is an audience recording.
This is Soundboard >http://helden.org.uk/v/VisionsAndSounds.htm

Sam Therapy
No the two cd's are the same audience recording. Not a very good one.
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 10:24 pm

July 28th, 2011, 5:39 pm #40

Del, Docklands Arena was demolished 2006 once the O2 opened.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Arena. I remember getting to Docklands early in the day and Mr B was soundchecking A2A and a side door was open and we just stood there watching but were not let in any further by a guard.
thanks for that graham,i looked at the pic of the arena on wiki and it reminded me of how awful the place was lol
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

July 28th, 2011, 5:50 pm #41

as far as i can ascertain sound quality wise
the best bootlegs to have are :

chile
tokyo
milton keynes
rehearsals

i don't have paris if visions of sound is soundboard i'l be after that as it has some songs not performed later in the tour.

i put tokyo on my ipod earlier a great set list with fantastic sound.

the rehearsals are good as it has golden years,queen bitch, john i'm only dancing etc again in good quality, but only a small snippet of alabama song.

i'm sure the milton keynes broadcast does have the complete ode to joy.

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Joined: November 9th, 2010, 2:31 pm

July 28th, 2011, 5:57 pm #42

it is what i thought. an error in my bootleg ?
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Joined: July 28th, 2004, 2:22 pm

July 28th, 2011, 10:17 pm #43

1st night at Birmingham Bowie walked out for a second encore - it seemed to take the roadies by surprise as they seemed to rush around trying to find the guitar.
He then sang an acoustic Rock 'n' Roll Suicide.
To this day it is one of my favourite Bowie live moments. Truly awesome. When he paused mid song after the 'oh no love' you could've heard a pin drop in that arena. Breathtaking.
I was at that show. I remember Rock N Roll suicide. Awesome. I also think the version he did of Drive-In Saturday that night was fantastic. The highlight for me.

I also remember having a really bad cold and a lad I was with said 'have a sniff of this, it'll clear it' It was bleeding poppers!!!!!
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

July 28th, 2011, 10:21 pm #44

drive in saturday wasnt played on the sound and vision tour was it?

i will double check my milton keynes but i'm sure it has got the full ode to joy.
what bootleg do you have?
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Joined: November 29th, 2003, 11:23 pm

July 29th, 2011, 2:21 pm #45

No DIS at S&V, never played on this tour.

Also the best show for me is Tacoma 90. Excellent, new master copy from Jems on Dime and Mindwarp.This show also include You and I and George.

ziggyson
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Joined: November 24th, 2007, 10:15 pm

July 29th, 2011, 2:41 pm #46

I saw it in Edinburgh and really, it has to be the worst band Bowie has ever put together for a tour. The venue didn't help either, Ingleston is basically a huge tin shed. Belew wasn't that bad, but the band as a whole unit is pretty forgettable. 'Ode To Joy' being played over the PA dead loud, just before Bowie came on was brilliant, though.

Mist.

"Someone is in talks with David Bowie to get his support for my posts on Facebook and BWW". Honest!!
this whole show was just phoned in.

Geo.

http://www.georgewolstenholme.com
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Joined: November 20th, 2005, 6:00 pm

July 29th, 2011, 5:50 pm #47

No DIS at S&V, never played on this tour.

Also the best show for me is Tacoma 90. Excellent, new master copy from Jems on Dime and Mindwarp.This show also include You and I and George.

ziggyson
I just don't get all this dissatisfaction with Bowies S&V band, I never have. OK it wasn't the most technically gifted band, OK Belew can screech a bit if your not in the mood, and OK the band were a little thin sounding as some like to keep pointing out.

Having said all that though the band provided a unique S&V tour sound which is a major achievement considering S&V was essentially a greatest hits tour and which to me is an essential ingredient of any Bowie gig, ie a unique sound, the sound was raw in a very Bowiefied ( good ) way, and when I listen to the S&V band despite their faults they still leaves me much more satisfied than the later more technically perfect bands like the Reality one ever can.

I guess I just look for something different from Bowie than the majority of other fans seem to.


<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>
--------------------------------------------
REALITY bites
--------------------------------------------
I see no joy I see only sorrow, I see no future of your bright new tomorrow, so stand down Condems stand down please so stand down Condems.
--------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------







Last edited by trevorhalvo on July 29th, 2011, 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

July 29th, 2011, 10:56 pm #48

aladdin sane rest easy i was playing milton keynes earlier.
it does not have ode to joy on the version i downloaded.
i'm sure it was on the original broadcast which i taped at the time from radio 1 back in aug 1990, but on my bootleg no ode to joy.
in fact every bootleg i have from the tour does not include ode to joy, which is ashame i must find one.

yes tokyo is great but i think the chile gig also has an excellent sound it has been recorded very well.
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Joined: January 10th, 2011, 2:08 am

July 30th, 2011, 3:33 am #49

Most of the Full concert ( not compilations ) Bootlegs have ODE TO JOY
just check Bassmans and Helden ( see my entry above )

Sam Therapy
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Joined: November 9th, 2010, 2:31 pm

July 30th, 2011, 7:47 am #50

aladdin sane rest easy i was playing milton keynes earlier.
it does not have ode to joy on the version i downloaded.
i'm sure it was on the original broadcast which i taped at the time from radio 1 back in aug 1990, but on my bootleg no ode to joy.
in fact every bootleg i have from the tour does not include ode to joy, which is ashame i must find one.

yes tokyo is great but i think the chile gig also has an excellent sound it has been recorded very well.
ok, i rest easy

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