Joined: April 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

September 13th, 2018, 7:39 pm #51

Toy is a grey area, as it was originally handed to Virgin as the follow up to hours, but considering that some of the tracks were then used as B sides for Heathen it is possible that when Virgin rejected it, it went back into Bowie's possession and was then open for Columbia to use. On top of the B sides/bonus tracks for Heathen, Your Turn To Drive was released as a mp3 download for Reality and then Let Me Sleep Beside You was released on Nothing Has Changed, which of course was a joint release. It is safe to assume that Columbia hold the rights to it.

However with every negotiation of his back catalogue, more titles become available to the bulk.
Eg Ryko/EMI got 1969-1980 in 1989
EMI/Virgin got 1969-1988 in 1999
EMI got 1969-1993 in the next round
and Parlophone currently have 1969-1999 in their current contract.
It is conceivable that when the Bowie catalogue is next up for grabs it will contain everything released after 1969 (with the exception of Tin Machine 2 which as mentioned earlier, is owned four ways).
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Joined: December 12th, 2004, 2:27 pm

September 14th, 2018, 7:04 am #52

UntitledNo1 wrote: Toy is a grey area, as it was originally handed to Virgin as the follow up to hours, but considering that some of the tracks were then used as B sides for Heathen it is possible that when Virgin rejected it, it went back into Bowie's possession and was then open for Columbia to use. On top of the B sides/bonus tracks for Heathen, Your Turn To Drive was released as a mp3 download for Reality and then Let Me Sleep Beside You was released on Nothing Has Changed, which of course was a joint release. It is safe to assume that Columbia hold the rights to it.

However with every negotiation of his back catalogue, more titles become available to the bulk.
Eg Ryko/EMI got 1969-1980 in 1989
EMI/Virgin got 1969-1988 in 1999
EMI got 1969-1993 in the next round
and Parlophone currently have 1969-1999 in their current contract.
It is conceivable that when the Bowie catalogue is next up for grabs it will contain everything released after 1969 (with the exception of Tin Machine 2 which as mentioned earlier, is owned four ways).
An excellent post which hopefully will help people understand.
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Joined: December 12th, 2004, 2:27 pm

September 14th, 2018, 7:15 am #53

edetley wrote: hi,
63-68 material could have been purchased by parlephone.
as far as s+v concerts being released in the box set, i hope i am wrong, but i doubt it.
that is because no audios or videos were officially released, unfortunately, for that tour.
and for toy being released, i do think columbia/sony own the rights.
after all, it was suppose to be released during the heathen days: 21st century output.
Are you saying that the companies holding rights to 63-68 offered a deal to Parlophone and they turned it down? Or is that a theoretical statement?
I think you might be right about an S&V concert but the serious moonlight concert is a precedent, although that was planned but not released. I doubt if an S&V was planned as it would have clashed with the TMII tour. I am thus hoping we get one as a RSD release which would follow earlier release patterns when things do not fit in with the general theme of the box series content.
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

September 14th, 2018, 1:58 pm #54

I think he just means that Parlophone "could" have tried to buy them, but I can't see UMG selling them. Universal did a great job with the first album deluxe, but considering they now own pretty much all the pre 1969 material, they could in theory put out an amazing pre-fame box. However, how saleable this would be is debatable. The Bowie fans would probably be interested, but not so much the casual fan.
I guess that the Début deluxe and "Early On" covers nearly all the officially released tracks (with the exception of the original Space Oddity).

Milton Keynes would be a good option for a S+V concert as that was broadcast by Radio 1.
I can't really see how a S+V video would have been a problem with TM2, when the Glass Spider videos were released the same year as TM1. Could never understand why a video wasn't released of that tour. (Despite it being one of my least favourite tours from a musical point of view).
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Joined: December 12th, 2004, 2:27 pm

September 14th, 2018, 2:35 pm #55

UntitledNo1 wrote: I think he just means that Parlophone "could" have tried to buy them, but I can't see UMG selling them. Universal did a great job with the first album deluxe, but considering they now own pretty much all the pre 1969 material, they could in theory put out an amazing pre-fame box. However, how saleable this would be is debatable. The Bowie fans would probably be interested, but not so much the casual fan.
I guess that the Début deluxe and "Early On" covers nearly all the officially released tracks (with the exception of the original Space Oddity).

Milton Keynes would be a good option for a S+V concert as that was broadcast by Radio 1.
I can't really see how a S+V video would have been a problem with TM2, when the Glass Spider videos were released the same year as TM1. Could never understand why a video wasn't released of that tour. (Despite it being one of my least favourite tours from a musical point of view).
My mistake I thought that glass spider videos came out in 1988. Milton Keynes is a good call for s&v.

I remain hopeful that after all the back catalogue boxes are done they will do a box containing rarities like the floyd one from a couple of years back. Although I am dreading the price and hope it just doesn't package up the circulating stuff, albeit in best quality!
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

September 14th, 2018, 2:36 pm #56

Actually, yes, GST vid 88, TM1 89, my mistake.
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Joined: March 11th, 2007, 6:43 pm

September 14th, 2018, 7:27 pm #57

hi,
as far as parlophone buying the pre-69 material, yes it was wishful thinking...but as you know everything has a price.
still it would have been a nice intro to the amazing career of db.
as for the serious moonlight concert coming out on lta, it was originally released as a video, not album to be sure,
but videos obviously have audio to them. thus, it was previously released. that`s why its inclusion now.just different format.
unfortunately the outside tour was not released in audio or visual form, with the exception of individual songs on singles.
so i doubt that tour will be eligible for inclusion, hope i am wrong, on a box set in this series.
earthling, another missed opportunity for a  tour presentation on cd and video.a couple of the exceptions being the live and well.com
and earthling in the city releases. the 50th anniversary never officially released as well. i guess too many artists and companies to deal with. how would people who thought they bought the exclusive live and well.com feel if it gets a wide release.
perhaps an extended version would be in the offing. db was such an awesome presence live,yet these record companies refused to put out much live material at the time of the many post-70s and perhaps 80`s tours( i.e..videos fine but why were they not released on albums like dl and stage originally).
does anybody remember that the earthling tour was to have an officially released album.what a bummer when i found out it was cancelled. 
peter and the wolf was also a  db work, shared with an orchestra.
i remember seeing it as part of his discography with his other albums available in the isolar2 tour programme.
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

September 14th, 2018, 7:30 pm #58

Somehow Sony now as the rights to Peter And The Wolf. I think because it was never a true Bowie project, and he was just "hired" to narrate it.
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Joined: March 11th, 2007, 6:43 pm

September 14th, 2018, 7:58 pm #59

hi,
as far as peter and the wolf goes, ditto, to the  buying and selling rights for projects i mentioned previously in
this business of music and publishing...i.e. it could have been purchased by rhino
for this particular series.
i also hope that the rarities and live material that is still vaulted-up will be released for my
generation...the ones who experienced mr.b while he was in real-time. i guess will see in time
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Joined: July 24th, 2008, 8:22 pm

September 14th, 2018, 9:03 pm #60

I think the market for physical releases of 90s material will be limited. I bet there’s a lot less in the way of sessions etc, there have already been 2 disc issues of BTWN, Hours etc. Maybe a live box, but most fans have pretty good quality grabs of the best shows. Then there’s licensing costs etc. Possibly something linked to the virtual stuff around DB Is ....? Who knows 
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Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

September 14th, 2018, 10:47 pm #61

UntitledNo1 wrote:
Milton Keynes would be a good option for a S+V concert as that was broadcast by Radio 1.
I would once have said that, until I realised why I never listened to it much, despite having enjoyed the concert on the day. It's too synth heavy.

Tokyo 90 was broadcast not just in Japan but across Bowie's adopted homeland, the US, by Westwood One, a big name in syndicated radio shows. That show, on the recent 6 disc Wardour set, is now heard to be more guitar heavy and a more worthy candidate for release.

In fact a good compromise could be using tracks from a few different S&V shows, particularly as an audio / video release. A lot were recorded, and indeed filmed officially or at least with Bowie's agreement.

Perhaps Nacho could start work on a video compilation from that tour 😀
We need -
Cracked Actor on DVD!
Arts Lab recordings!
The FULL 1970 Paris Cinema Studios show - forget the mistakes, enjoy the vibe!
1971 Paris Cinema Studios in STEREO - it was on a BBC radio LP.
Glasto 71 too!
Release the archives, set them free...
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

September 15th, 2018, 1:42 am #62

One of my main reasons for Milton Keynes, is to get a live version of Pretty Pink Rose, which wasn't played on later dates. I agree with you about the backing, but I can't say I am that enthused about how the band sounded on any part of the tour, it was too small a band for big venues like that.
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Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

September 15th, 2018, 8:16 am #63

Yes, not all the arrangements worked. I think there's a good case for a 1990 tour highlights release - a bit like the Vancouver 83 release on the LTA box - and including some of the better less usually performed tracks.
We need -
Cracked Actor on DVD!
Arts Lab recordings!
The FULL 1970 Paris Cinema Studios show - forget the mistakes, enjoy the vibe!
1971 Paris Cinema Studios in STEREO - it was on a BBC radio LP.
Glasto 71 too!
Release the archives, set them free...
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Joined: March 4th, 2009, 1:08 am

September 15th, 2018, 2:49 pm #64

I think, if the box sets continue, we’ll see a concert disc for every tour. It’s an easy selling point, and the material exists - probably including shows we didn’t know were contenders.

I’d guess Tin Machine gets its own box at some point. Then a box for the 90s, and a final box for 2000-2016.

After that, maybe the archives release. The albums will all be out on shelves again - so the focus can switch to a new series of rarities discs/boxes.
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Joined: March 11th, 2007, 6:43 pm

September 17th, 2018, 5:33 pm #65

hi,
if bob dylan could have an anniversary release and concert for bangladesh, with all those
artists and labels involved, then db could have had a fiftieth birthday release from madison 
square garden. db was almost always treated shabbily by his record labels.
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Joined: April 5th, 2011, 3:04 pm

September 17th, 2018, 5:44 pm #66

Concert for Bangladesh is a good, but bad example. I think everyone who played was doing it just for the charity, but when the record initially came out, it became a legal landmine, was delayed for ages dues to legal problems and the charity ended up getting hardly any of the money.
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Joined: March 11th, 2007, 6:43 pm

September 17th, 2018, 7:34 pm #67

well, yes absolutely for charity but look at live aid. the labels oked it.
look at the freddie mercury release the labels oked it as well. 
how  about concert for kampuchea.
the george harrison tribute show.
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Joined: March 11th, 2007, 6:43 pm

September 17th, 2018, 8:10 pm #68

also, non-charity shows include the biggie, woodstock,
and how about compilation albums.
all the labels have to do is say which company the artist belongs to
and get their partial share of royalties.db was worth this for his label.
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Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

September 17th, 2018, 8:14 pm #69

It's an interesting idea, but can you see Parlophone doing a Bowie release for charity?
This is where I think they would show they really are the corporate "Polygram" and wriggle out of it, rather than act like the quaint 'Parlophone' might. Unless Bowie's manager pushed really hard for it...
We need -
Cracked Actor on DVD!
Arts Lab recordings!
The FULL 1970 Paris Cinema Studios show - forget the mistakes, enjoy the vibe!
1971 Paris Cinema Studios in STEREO - it was on a BBC radio LP.
Glasto 71 too!
Release the archives, set them free...
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Joined: March 4th, 2009, 1:08 am

September 17th, 2018, 10:40 pm #70

The 50th Birthday concert, (and accompanying acoustic set), are big ticket items. Parlophone no doubt has persued this concert for release, either for the 90s box, or RSD. It’s too good to pass up, and surely the legalities can be resolved with little fanfare as there aren’t really that many acts/guests to negotiate with.

What is of most interest to me moving forward, is just exactly how will these releases get parceled out.

There are already almost too many concert releases potentially lined up for the 90s box. S+V, Outside, 50th Birthday, Live And Well, Mini Acoustic Tour, Story Tellers, KitKat Club/or Live in Paris, Glastonbury...

It seems very likely there is or was a live album planned for all of those at some point. With the release of Cracked Actor, WTTBO and Serious Moonlight Live, (not to mention Santa Monica or Nassau), I can see any of the above getting a release.

The questions are - where and when?
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Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

September 18th, 2018, 9:29 am #71

If something's only out there in crappy quality, I can understand the desire to have a good quality official version of it.
But when it comes to something like the 50th birthday concert, surely anyone who wants it can get a good version quickly and easily?
A quick look on i*ff*r just now shows me there's a pro-shot double dvd of the full show, supposedly in 10/10 quality, going for 15 quid -
to all intents and purposes, that's likely to be as good as any official version would be.
Under these circumstances, how much difference would it really make if it was released 'officially' or not?  
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Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

September 18th, 2018, 11:45 am #72

Have to admit, that's what I was thinking.^^^
You can imagine the executives thinking why try dealing with all those legalities in the circumstances?
We need -
Cracked Actor on DVD!
Arts Lab recordings!
The FULL 1970 Paris Cinema Studios show - forget the mistakes, enjoy the vibe!
1971 Paris Cinema Studios in STEREO - it was on a BBC radio LP.
Glasto 71 too!
Release the archives, set them free...
Quote
Like
Share