lost Radio tapes

Joined: August 14th, 2012, 9:12 pm

July 30th, 2018, 8:01 pm #1

Any thoughts on the source of this, obviously from 1987 B839C102-5DE7-426F-84AE-9D3A9DF046BC.jpeg
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

July 30th, 2018, 9:07 pm #2

I saw this advertised on Amazon. My best guess is it’s yet another Glass Spider show and a bootleg of course with the wrong cover picture.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 24th, 2016, 2:55 pm

July 30th, 2018, 10:43 pm #3

Looks like the GS tour rehearsals > Because You're Young, Scream Like A Baby


Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

July 31st, 2018, 5:55 am #4

FTcollector wrote: Looks like the GS tour rehearsals > Because You're Young, Scream Like A Baby



And probably ripped straight from the YouTube video you’ve posted.

Thanks for posting that YouTube audio vid btw I’d never heard that before.

Actually if it is that I might buy it

I see there is another GS bootleg CD about to go for sale on Amazon as well.

Have you noticed all these different Bowie bootlegs suddenly appearing with frequent regularity on Amazon lately. The bootleggers are having a field day on there.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 24th, 2016, 2:55 pm

July 31st, 2018, 9:07 am #5

"Have you noticed all these different Bowie bootlegs suddenly appearing with frequent regularity on Amazon lately. The bootleggers are having a field day on there."
eBay and Discogs no longer allow bootlegs being sold, so those folks move their business to a place that doesn't mind copyright infringement, Amazon.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 18th, 2014, 8:04 pm

July 31st, 2018, 9:28 am #6

This has got to be good news surely.  All these new "semi-legal" releases on Amazon/Spin etc are of material that has previously been out on ridiculously expensive Japanese bootlegs.  Now the same stuff is available for £10-£15 a pop. It's mainly stuff that will either never get released officially or will only be released in many years time when some of us will be dead so never hear it!  Much of it is in broadcast quality and t those prices very much worth picking up without risk.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

July 31st, 2018, 11:18 am #7

My view of it is it’s a bit of a double edged sword if that’s the right expression. On the one hand it’s playing into the hands of those who would seek to profit since Bowie’s death, yet on the other it’s filling an important gap in fans collections and helping satisfy the Bowie fans natural desire to want to buy something by the man now that he is no longer with us.  

I have some of this stuff on homemade CDRs downloaded from torrent sites, but I admit I’m a bit of a sucker for professionally produce semi official releases of this stuff as well so I’m the perfect target audience for these rascals. It doesn’t really bother me if it’s an MP3 rip so long as it’s in fairly reasonable broadcast quality, my detailed audiophile hearing has probably been knackered for a number of years now anyway.

As you say being realistic I’m not going to have too many years up here before I’m probably heading down there, so I’m happy to hear and have this stuff like this even if I am being fleeced a bit.

I am choosey though, if something is obviously rubbish then I send it right back which is why it’s not such a bad thing Amazon selling them with their great returns policy, although they should be more upfront in their descriptions about these CDs being bootlegs on their website.

Yes they could be classed as fan fleecing but not as much as the current issues of officially released  well over priced box sets which give you what you already have several times over and entice you with content tit bits that you don’t really need, will hardly ever play, and which are totally superfluous.

You pay your money and make your choice.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

July 31st, 2018, 1:25 pm #8

SHHWEEET! wrote:Yes they could be classed as fan fleecing but not as much as the current issues of officially released  well over priced box sets which give you what you already have several times over and entice you with content tit bits that you don’t really need, will hardly ever play, and which are totally superfluous.
You pay your money and make your choice.
That's it pretty much spot on, I'd say.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 2nd, 2014, 6:17 pm

July 31st, 2018, 5:46 pm #9

This does look like half of the New York’s a Go Go rehearsal bootleg, with Carlos singing the last few songs as Bowie buggers off!
My big issues with these are there’s often sound quality issues compared to the original bootleg, and they’re often incomplete-this is half a performance and the Serious Moonlight Dallas rehearsals one is half too. They don’t even seem to release the second half separately!
They are also often not what they seem, as obviously they put the word “broadcast” on the cover to pretend that they’re radio broadcasts and things like that, but the rehearsals won’t ever have been broadcast at the very least-bending the law for certain.
I was given one called Transmission Impossible which claims to have a Tin Machine show from Tokyo 17th February (which I think would be their last ever show) but on hearing it it’s quite clearly parts of the show from 6th February show which has been heavily bootlegged.
Just remember that there are a few sites like BowieStation where you can download these for nothing.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 14th, 2012, 9:12 pm

July 31st, 2018, 6:23 pm #10

And here’s another one, Part 1 of NYC rehearsals? DEB4A128-68DD-4238-B566-C5C97E066EF3.jpeg
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 18th, 2016, 6:51 pm

July 31st, 2018, 6:50 pm #11

So far since January 2016, I count at least 23 of these quasi-legit releases on either CD or DVD.
Some have been worthwhile and a few fairly poor such as Laser Media label's "In Memory Of".
There's yet another out next week, 3rd August, "Montreal 1983 - The Canadian Broadcast" 2CD, all 28 tracks.
the future ain't what it used to be
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 6th, 2018, 11:47 pm

July 31st, 2018, 7:00 pm #12

golly_75 wrote: This does look like half of the New York’s a Go Go rehearsal bootleg, with Carlos singing the last few songs as Bowie buggers off!
My big issues with these are there’s often sound quality issues compared to the original bootleg, and they’re often incomplete-this is half a performance and the Serious Moonlight Dallas rehearsals one is half too.  They don’t even seem to release the second half separately!
They are also often not what they seem, as obviously they put the word “broadcast” on the cover to pretend that they’re radio broadcasts and things like that, but the rehearsals won’t ever have been broadcast at the very least-bending the law for certain.
I was given one called Transmission Impossible which claims to have a Tin Machine show from Tokyo 17th February (which I think would be their last ever show) but on hearing it it’s quite clearly parts of the show from 6th February show which has been heavily bootlegged.
Just remember that there are a few sites like BowieStation where you can download these for nothing.
Totally agree - the sound quality on every one of these (that I've heard) 'semi-legal' "Broadcast" recordings has been worse than the original bootlegs. 

I also got that "Transmission Impossible" release, in the hopes of getting improved copies of the Cher + Dinah Shore Show performances... but of course, they weren't. I'm almost positive that they sourced the audio from Youtube. 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 18th, 2016, 6:51 pm

July 31st, 2018, 7:22 pm #13

BiroTheLeggy wrote:

I also got that "Transmission Impossible" release, in the hopes of getting improved copies of the Cher + Dinah Shore Show performances... but of course, they weren't. I'm almost positive that they sourced the audio from Youtube. 
That's probably as good as it's going to get meantime with these Cher & Shore show tracks, considering the originals rest in CBS TV's archive.
Or perhaps the sound quality was compromised by the overburn mastering as that disc length is 82m 32s.
the future ain't what it used to be
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 3rd, 2018, 2:36 pm #14

XenonCodex59 wrote: There's yet another out next week, 3rd August, "Montreal 1983 - The Canadian Broadcast" 2CD, all 28 tracks.

I’ve bought it and it’s excellent! It sounds much better than the copy I downloaded off a torrent site. For £9.99 it’s current price, it’s a no brainier.

Recommend.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 16th, 2013, 6:11 pm

August 3rd, 2018, 3:27 pm #15

SHHWEEET! wrote:
XenonCodex59 wrote: There's yet another out next week, 3rd August, "Montreal 1983 - The Canadian Broadcast" 2CD, all 28 tracks.

I’ve bought it and it’s excellent! It sounds much better than the copy I downloaded off a torrent site. For £9.99 it’s current price, it’s a no brainier.

Recommend.
Is it in stereo i bought a different version of couple of weeks ago and it was mono
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 3rd, 2018, 3:50 pm #16

dazzzhoo wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote:
XenonCodex59 wrote: There's yet another out next week, 3rd August, "Montreal 1983 - The Canadian Broadcast" 2CD, all 28 tracks.

I’ve bought it and it’s excellent! It sounds much better than the copy I downloaded off a torrent site. For £9.99 it’s current price, it’s a no brainier.

Recommend.
Is it in stereo i bought a different version of couple of weeks ago and it was mono

Yes

It sounds like a professional legit release but obviously it isn’t. It’s also got good bass which I often find these radio broadcast bootlegs haven’t

It’s very good
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 16th, 2013, 6:11 pm

August 3rd, 2018, 3:54 pm #17

Thank you SHHWEEET i think they stock it in HMV i will be buying
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 3rd, 2018, 3:58 pm #18

Two cds for a tenner, full set, good quality? Having long had a tape of Ronson's phaser-fizzling on Jean Genie from Toronto, this Montreal cd sounds like all the additional Serious Moonlight I'll ever need, so...oh, go on, then, while I'm in the mood...  
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 3rd, 2018, 4:01 pm #19

dazzzhoo wrote: Thank you SHHWEEET i think they stock it in HMV i will be buying
No problem

I think if you ask the staff in HMV nicely they will put it on the shop hi fi which will give you an idea what it sounds like before you buy. My local HMV have done that for me before.

Either way I don’t think you will be disappointed.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 3rd, 2018, 4:04 pm #20

Larranaga wrote: this Montreal cd sounds like all the additional Serious Moonlight I'll ever need, so...oh, go on, then, while I'm in the mood...  
Makes me wonder why they didn’t use this show for the official Loving The Alien boxset?
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 18th, 2014, 8:04 pm

August 3rd, 2018, 6:56 pm #21

Is the new Montreal cd set the same recording as on the old "Serious Moonlight" Swingin' Pig release?  Anyone heard both and willing to compare?  The Swingin' Pig recording was great.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 16th, 2014, 8:06 am

August 3rd, 2018, 8:06 pm #22

Deleted not relevant sorry

I understand now that there's another release of Montreal 83.

Await the comparision.
Last edited by leoloww on August 3rd, 2018, 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 16th, 2013, 6:11 pm

August 3rd, 2018, 8:25 pm #23

mcnabadam wrote: Is the new Montreal cd set the same recording as on the old "Serious Moonlight" Swingin' Pig release?  Anyone heard both and willing to compare?  The Swingin' Pig recording was great.
I will compare both on Tuesday the Swingin pig release runs slightly too fast so it will be interesting to see if this is different
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 18th, 2014, 8:04 pm

August 3rd, 2018, 9:57 pm #24

Agreed that it seems to run too fast, particularly noticeable on Scary Monsters, which appears to race by.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 7th, 2018, 9:53 am

August 4th, 2018, 6:36 am #25

Is this the one people are talking about?



Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 4th, 2018, 10:05 am #26

zorbathegeek wrote: Is this the one people are talking about?



Yes

Over on the news page Paul K says the Live In New York 1987 bootleg CD that is shortly to be released could be the legendary radio performance from New Yorks Maddison Square Garden.

What was legendary about it when compared to other GS performances?
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 4th, 2018, 1:51 pm #27

FTcollector wrote: "Have you noticed all these different Bowie bootlegs suddenly appearing with frequent regularity on Amazon lately. The bootleggers are having a field day on there."
eBay and Discogs no longer allow bootlegs being sold, so those folks move their business to a place that doesn't mind copyright infringement, Amazon.
Since when have discogs stopped selling boots?
I was wondering why I no longer get marketplace offers any longer.
How bloody stupid.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 4th, 2018, 9:45 pm #28

SHHWEEET! wrote:
zorbathegeek wrote: Is this the one people are talking about?



Yes

Over on the news page Paul K says the Live In New York 1987 bootleg CD that is shortly to be released could be the legendary radio performance from New Yorks Maddison Square Garden.

What was legendary about it when compared to other GS performances?
I didn't write it - it's part of the info they have provided. The full thing read as:

This new David Bowie CD contains the legendary radio live performance from NY.
David Bowie - Live In New York 1987
Recorded in 1987, providing a fine example of this cultural icon at the dawn of his most successful era. Including the hits Absolutre Beginners, Never Let Me Down and Shining Star.
Track Listing
Introduction
Glass Spider
Day In Day Out
Bang Bang
Absolute Beginners
Loving The Alien
Shining Star
Fashion
Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps)
All The Madmen
Never Let Me Down
Big Brother
'87 And Cry
Heroes
 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 4th, 2018, 9:46 pm #29

I've left their typos in as well :)
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 1st, 2017, 2:29 pm

August 4th, 2018, 9:55 pm #30

What a hit it was indeed, Shining Star....
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 1st, 2017, 2:29 pm

August 5th, 2018, 10:30 am #31

Ordered both the 83 Montreal and 87 NYC CDs, nice to have and not expensive.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 5th, 2018, 2:54 pm #32

paulkinder wrote:
I didn't write it - it's part of the info they have provided. The full thing read as:

This new David Bowie CD contains the legendary radio live performance from NY.
David Bowie - Live In New York 1987
Recorded in 1987, providing a fine example of this cultural icon at the dawn of his most successful era.
 
Apologies from me Paul, the way it reads over on the news page looks like it was a personal view from yourself.

I wonder who does write this stuff for these bootleg releases though, I mean were there any actual  Glass Spider concerts recorded, transmitted, or otherwise that stood out from another on that tour. Could any really be classed as legendary?

Also I take issue with the statement that this CD is from the dawn of his most successful era. Really! A debatable one is that, I suppose it depends which way you want to look at it. Even if your an 80s Bowie lover and agree his 80s period was his most successful period then surely the period started with Let’s Dance or even Scary Monsters if one was to be picky.

I will be generous here and say it’s them exercising poetic licence at its worst.
Last edited by SHHWEEET! on August 5th, 2018, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 5th, 2018, 2:58 pm #33

oakey1973 wrote: Ordered both the 83 Montreal and 87 NYC CDs, nice to have and not expensive.
Could you report back here on the sound quality and also any obvious faults sound or otherwise with regards to the 87 NYC CD once you’ve had a chance to listen to it.

If you would it would be very much appreciated.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 1st, 2017, 2:29 pm

August 5th, 2018, 3:56 pm #34

SHHWEEET! wrote:
oakey1973 wrote: Ordered both the 83 Montreal and 87 NYC CDs, nice to have and not expensive.
Could you report back here on the sound quality and also any obvious faults sound or otherwise with regards to the 87 NYC CD once you’ve had a chance to listen to it.

If you would it would be very much appreciated.
Will do but both will arrive after Aug 30
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 6th, 2018, 7:26 am #35

Okay - when my version of this one arrived (and I have now got around 6 different "Montreal Forum" offerings) I ripped it to HDD as usual, and found that EAC thought it was the Swinging Pig release on CD2 although CD1 was not recognized by any of the 4 databases built into the ripper.
The best version I have yet heard is the one in the 4-disc Long Box set "The Montreal Forum" (includes both nights, first night in soundboard style and the second night sounds like an official mix that got leaked) and if that was the canned official live album I know why it got canned - the mix is fine, but the performance just isn't there and it sounds like the band are really going through the motions.
Other versions of this include the Wardour title "Montreal 1983", the Swinging Pig one, one that is identified here as "Totally Serious" and allegedly from the cancelled album, plus various edits (King Biscuit Flower Hour, Live On Mars etc) as well as a few 4 CD sets of both nights including another, earlier Wardour release as well as the one mentioned above.
It is one of the most bootlegged shows ever - I even have copies of what is allegedly from the reference master (although I doubt this to be honest).

One day I will sit down & work out the right speed for this show & adjust the best of them, but it is just not a very good performance and I can totally understand why it got canned. Maybe the Clearmountain mix in the forthcoming box set will be better - it certainly has not been bootlegged as far as I know (not in my collection, anyway) unlike the '87 one included which I already have - and it seems the show on the box set is actually complete, unlike the "Stage" release now in it's 3rd version and still missing tracks.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 6th, 2018, 8:59 am #36

Interesting.

Leaving aside all the technicalities of all these different versions for a moment though, would you agree this very latest one being sold on Amazon, HMV, etc, is worth a tenner of anyone’s money or is my hearing really not up to scratch these days, because I do think this latest one is very good. For the price anyway.

This latest CD version does gallop along at a fast pace but wasn’t that a characteristic of the Serious Moonlight gigs. I went to the Milton Keynes show back in 83 and going by memory which I admit isn’t as good as it once was these days, I seem to remember the show  fairly raced along, but as I say my memory could be playing tricks. Also I do prefer the Montreal show over The Vancouver (DVD) show, I don’t know why I just do, but obviously that is just my own personal opinion.

Also am I correct in reading your reply here when you say the forthcoming Serious Moonlight Vancouver show being released on the forthcoming box set is actually complete.

Anyway thanks for your technical insight with regards to all the Serious Moonlight boots out there.

Fascinating stuff.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 6th, 2018, 10:55 am #37

SHHWEEET! wrote: Interesting.

Leaving aside all the technicalities of all these different versions for a moment though, would you agree this very latest one being sold on Amazon, HMV, etc, is worth a tenner of anyone’s money or is my hearing really not up to scratch these days, because I do think this latest one is very good. For the price anyway.

This latest CD version does gallop along at a fast pace but wasn’t that a characteristic of the Serious Moonlight gigs. I went to the Milton Keynes show back in 83 and going by memory which I admit isn’t as good as it once was these days, I seem to remember the show  fairly raced along, but as I say my memory could be playing tricks. Also I do prefer the Montreal show over The Vancouver (DVD) show, I don’t know why I just do, but obviously that is just my own personal opinion.

Also am I correct in reading your reply here when you say the forthcoming Serious Moonlight Vancouver show being released on the forthcoming box set is actually complete.

Anyway thanks for your technical insight with regards to all the Serious Moonlight boots out there.

Fascinating stuff.
If you would like to trust me & send me your email address in a PM I can send you a sample track of your choice. Then you can check for yourself.
Personally, I do not think the speed is wrong on any of the 13th versions - they are all the same speed and as you say the SM shows did gallop along (I was also there both nights at MK Bowl)
Sound wise, my preference is the second (2 disc) Wardour-217 release, as it is not as heavily brickwalled as this newer edition sounds - this one is brighter and definitely limited for volume whereas the second of the Wardour titles is cleaner and not as aggressive. I cannot decide if it is the same as the earlier 4CD wardour release containing both nights but it may well be. The first night in all editions is not in the same league, quality wise, and I am certain this is an official version that has been leaked.
One version that sounds quite different is the so-called ""reference master" version (and there are 2 of these just to add too the confusion, with one claiming to be a master reel from the soundboard recording & the other one allegedly a reference master of the cancelled album, of which only "Modern Love" was used (and IIRC this was dubbed to video footage from the Hammersmith Odeon charity gig when used as a single)
So in all, there seems to be 2 or 3 sets of tapes, either the Pre-FM broadcast master, the FM recording (with various tweaks & remasters, most not very well done as usual) and the supposed cancelled album reference tapes which I personally believe to be genuine as this was the way things were done. A mix would be finished & dropped to 1/4" tape at either 15 or 30IPS )this sounds like 15 to me because of the warm low end "tape bump") and copies would be made for reference purposes & approval/signoff.
Then there are the edited versions, of which the best sounding is "Live On Mars" but sadly not the full show.

Whilst the Vancouver 1983 show was filmed & released on 3 different (I only have 3 versions anyway) editions, none of them have lossless PCM Stereo audio, just AC3 which really sucks out loud - that has no place on a music release as it is the DVD equivalent of MP3 with 11/12 of the data thrown away and personally I would rather have had the PCM stereo than a faked 5.1 stream - why the original Quad mix was not used is beyond my understanding - although that said on a German edition of the DVD we do in fact have an LPCM version of the show, but the quality of that release is pretty damn dreadful so it will be really good to get a Bob Clearmountain mix as he knows his stuff & is generally very, very good.

Montreal 1987 certainly looks to be complete when checked against my files of the show. The tracklisting published for the box set does not mention the reprise of "Up The Hill Backwards" but it will be there as usual after Glass Spider or before Day In Day Out. It's supposed to be the off-air version but you never know with bootlegs. The DVD set of this is weird, as the DVD portion is from a different show to the CD version included as the CD is the Montreal show from the forthcoming Box Set whilst the DVD is from Sydney in Australia.

Still, it will be what it will be.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 6th, 2018, 1:15 pm #38

Ah I see from you reply you were meaning the Glass Spider CD that’s included in the forthcoming box set is complete and not the Serious Moonlight CD. I was reading it incorrectly, my mistake.

Anyway thanks once again for another interesting reply. I never knew there were so many different bootlegs out there of Serious Moonlight Montreal, and it was really interesting to read about the inferior file / sound format used on the Serious Moonlight DVD.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 6th, 2018, 1:58 pm #39

SHHWEEET! wrote: Ah I see from you reply you were meaning the Glass Spider CD that’s included in the forthcoming box set is complete and not the Serious Moonlight CD?

Anyway thanks once again for another interesting reply. I never knew there were so many different bootlegs out there of Serious Moonlight Montreal.
It's highly likely I have managed to confuse everyone, myself included.
Let's try to clarify in detail: Montreal 1983 only though as this is what the thread was about.

There are a few variations of this one, but they mostly seem to be based on the same master recording. This includes this release here (I did buy it so can confirm this) which sounds identical to the Swinging Pig release as well as the Wardour releases - both the recent 2CD Wardour as well as the 4CD wardour that also includes the 12th as well as the 13th.
All the same. There may be minor mastering tweaks, but by & large I find wardour tend to release as they acquire them (and this seems to often be from fan site downloads too).
There are also supposed reference tape copies (this does sound like a different version altogether) and the pre-fm "soundboard reference".
There are also a few edited single disc versions that are not complete, just to confuse matters, but the versions listed above are complete as is the one on the Box Set by the look of the tracklist.
As far as I can tell there has never been an official CD release of the 1983 Montreal Forum shows, even though this was intended at one point.

In total, I have the following "single show" sets:
1 - Wardour-197 2CD version (Montreal 1983 Second Night)
2 - Golden Rain 2CD version (Montreal 1983), being the one under discussion here.
3 - Swinging Pig 2CD version (Serious Moonlight) - seems to be the same as the Golden Rain "Montreal 1983" version as CD2 identifies as this when ripped in EAC, although CD1 is not recognized. Not that this means much of course, and CD1 is the same as the GR version to my ears as well.
4 - 2CD version (Totally Serious - Montreal 1983) - this is supposed to be from the reference tapes for a cancelled album, and is not the FM Broadcast version.
5 - Golden Stars 1CD version (Live On Mars) - this is from the FM broadcast (identifies as lossy) and is only partial (13 tracks) - it also has the wrong date on the artwork (March 23rd instead of June 13th)
6 - King Biscuit Flower Hour 1CD version - again from FM, but with even fewer tracks than Live On Mars. I only bought it because being KBFH it just might have been in SQ Quad.
(There is also a laserdisc version, with the same footage as the 2 VHS tapes and this one is SQ Quadraphonic encoded and complete. We took the PCM from the lasterdisc, decoded it into Quad & dubbed this back to the footage for a unique DVD version in 4-channel quad)

There are also several sets containing both nights and again these are usually based on the same masters.
All of these are complete.
1 - Wardour-216 4CD version. Contains both nights, with the 12th a soundboard & the 13th in pristine quality again.
2 - Stoned Records 1989 3CD version. Contains extracts from both nights as far as I can tell. Some tracks are doubled up and there is no easy way to tell what is from which night.
3 - Diamond Doghouse 4CD "Long Box" version. Very nicely packaged edition from 2017 or 2018 (I cannot remember if it was late '17 or early '18) with the usual versions. CD's 1&2 are soundboards and not nearly as good as CD's 3&4 which are the pukka versions again.

I think (and this is just my personal opinion) that as long as you have one of the better versions then they are all pretty much identical with minor variations in mastering with some being limited for volume but others left with headroom. The only one that is blatantly different is the "Totally Serious" version that sounds as if it genuinely is from 15IPS tape with little fiddling around been done, if any. It is certainly not as toppy as the others are.

Box Set version. This is a different venue - the PNE in Vancouver and the only version of this show I have is the german NTSC DVD edition that has a really ropey LPCM stream, the other DVD versions of this show are in Dolby Digital AC3 only but again are complete even though I personally just do not rate AC3 at all. It has no place on a music title to my mind - I would rather more video compression and less tampering with the audio and could definitely live without the upmixed AC3/DTS streams in favour of a proper PCM Stereo one.

It's very reminiscent of the Santa Monica show - many versions, most of them the same tapes yet it took the official EMI version to really show how not to do it as that was brickwalled to death - yet the original in-house EMI CD-R of that one is far, far better than the final release version so go figure!

Sorry to have gone on (and on and on) and I hope this clarifies the Montreal 1983 bootlegs
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 6th, 2018, 3:11 pm #40

So, if Montreal is basically a dull plod through the set and I'm really not that fussed about the Serious Moonlight tour anyway and just want one to cover it, which is the one to go for? 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 6th, 2018, 4:03 pm #41

Either of the Wardour titles if still available, or else this one will also be fine.
They really are all much of a muchness
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 6th, 2018, 4:05 pm #42

Larranaga wrote: So, if Montreal is basically a dull plod through the set and I'm really not that fussed about the Serious Moonlight tour anyway and just want one to cover it, which is the one to go for? 
Wardour - 2016 4 CD versions or the Diamond Doghouse long box 4 CD versions if you can get them, and Totally Serious Montreal 93 seems a good one because it’s a reference version, If I’ve understood Neils explanations correctly.

For most people like yourself and me to be honest, this latest Montreal 83 Golden Rain on sale at the moment at Amazon, HMV, etc, should more than meet our needs.

Interestingly I had Serious Moonlight Montreal 83 downloaded from a torrent site previously ( Don’t ask me which version!? Or which site for that matter, it was so long ago ) but this latest version does sound better that what I had. I do suspect some re mastering has been done to this latest one but don’t quote me on that!

Edit ...Ha! I see Neil beat me to it with your answer. Top man!
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 2nd, 2014, 6:17 pm

August 7th, 2018, 1:25 pm #43

paulkinder wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote:
zorbathegeek wrote: Is this the one people are talking about?



Yes

Over on the news page Paul K says the Live In New York 1987 bootleg CD that is shortly to be released could be the legendary radio performance from New Yorks Maddison Square Garden.

What was legendary about it when compared to other GS performances?
I didn't write it - it's part of the info they have provided. The full thing read as:

This new David Bowie CD contains the legendary radio live performance from NY.
David Bowie - Live In New York 1987
Recorded in 1987, providing a fine example of this cultural icon at the dawn of his most successful era. Including the hits Absolutre Beginners, Never Let Me Down and Shining Star.
Track Listing
Introduction
Glass Spider
Day In Day Out
Bang Bang
Absolute Beginners
Loving The Alien
Shining Star
Fashion
Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps)
All The Madmen
Never Let Me Down
Big Brother
'87 And Cry
Heroes
 
I’m probably wrong, but did Shining Star actually get performed on the tour?  I know it was rehearsed but not sure if it was ever played, and if it was a lot of songs like that got dropped quite quickly from what I remember, so wouldn’t have been played on the US leg?

So that could mean one of two things:
1. The track listing is wrong (not unreasonable for a bootleg, since most of the time they can’t even get a photo for the cover from the correct period), or,
2. This is the first part of New York’s A Go Go and the companion to The Lost Radio tapes?  Same label, a couple of weeks apart on release dates, plus there’s form on passing these soundboard rehearsals off as broadcasts...

But whichever fit is, it’s still a bootleg you can download from BowieStation for nothing...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 7th, 2018, 2:13 pm #44

golly_75 wrote:
paulkinder wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote:

Yes

Over on the news page Paul K says the Live In New York 1987 bootleg CD that is shortly to be released could be the legendary radio performance from New Yorks Maddison Square Garden.

What was legendary about it when compared to other GS performances?
I didn't write it - it's part of the info they have provided. The full thing read as:

This new David Bowie CD contains the legendary radio live performance from NY.
David Bowie - Live In New York 1987
Recorded in 1987, providing a fine example of this cultural icon at the dawn of his most successful era. Including the hits Absolutre Beginners, Never Let Me Down and Shining Star.
Track Listing
Introduction
Glass Spider
Day In Day Out
Bang Bang
Absolute Beginners
Loving The Alien
Shining Star
Fashion
Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps)
All The Madmen
Never Let Me Down
Big Brother
'87 And Cry
Heroes
 
I’m probably wrong, but did Shining Star actually get performed on the tour?  I know it was rehearsed but not sure if it was ever played, and if it was a lot of songs like that got dropped quite quickly from what I remember, so wouldn’t have been played on the US leg?

So that could mean one of two things:
1. The track listing is wrong (not unreasonable for a bootleg, since most of the time they can’t even get a photo for the cover from the correct period), or,
2. This is the first part of New York’s A Go Go and the companion to The Lost Radio tapes?  Same label, a couple of weeks apart on release dates, plus there’s form on passing these soundboard rehearsals off as broadcasts...

But whichever fit is, it’s still a bootleg you can download from BowieStation for nothing...
Well, the screenshot cover is the Montreal 1983 Forum show from the 13th but the tracklisting certainly isn't.
That is the listing of CD1 of the Glass Spider tour rehearsals from New York alright & it is indeed disc 1 of "New York's A Go-Go"
(incidentally there is another set of rehearsal tapes from Rotterdam in 1987 as well but I don't have a full tracklist for those)
Typical bootleggers cannot even get the right info!!
Shining Star, Scream Like A Baby & Because You're Young were all in the rehearsals but never played on the actual tour (the latter 2 are on disc 2 of the New York's A Go-Go title)
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 7th, 2018, 2:30 pm #45

Are there many sound / recording faults on New York’s A Go- Go, and what’s the actual sound like on New York’s A Go-Go on a scale of 1-10? if we compare it to the latest Golden Rain release of Serious Moonlight 83, giving that a 10 for the sole purpose of a comparison reference.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 20th, 2002, 7:09 am

August 7th, 2018, 4:40 pm #46

Re New York's a Go Go - I'd give it a 8.5 to 9. The band sound is very up front, but DB's vocals although clear, sometimes fade a tiny bit. But it does lack 'live' sparkle, It being a rehearsal of course.

Here's 20 mins worth of video from the NY rehearsals:

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 18th, 2016, 6:51 pm

August 7th, 2018, 5:36 pm #47

neilwilkes wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote: Ah I see from you reply you were meaning the Glass Spider CD that’s included in the forthcoming box set is complete and not the Serious Moonlight CD?

Anyway thanks once again for another interesting reply. I never knew there were so many different bootlegs out there of Serious Moonlight Montreal.
It's highly likely I have managed to confuse everyone, myself included.
Let's try to clarify in detail: Montreal 1983 only though as this is what the thread was about.
Mr. Wilkes, that's some useful info there.
Blimey, I've only got about 78 Bowie bootlegs and feel sooo inadequate! But there is a limit to my attention span with this tour - and especially the next `87 one, which I prefer listening to than watching on DVD.
I also just bought this Montreal 1983 2CD set on the Golden Rain label and on first spin around it sounds pretty decent to me. It never stops for a breath though. 
the future ain't what it used to be
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 23rd, 2004, 4:37 pm

August 8th, 2018, 7:10 am #48

XenonCodex59 wrote:
neilwilkes wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote: Ah I see from you reply you were meaning the Glass Spider CD that’s included in the forthcoming box set is complete and not the Serious Moonlight CD?

Anyway thanks once again for another interesting reply. I never knew there were so many different bootlegs out there of Serious Moonlight Montreal.
It's highly likely I have managed to confuse everyone, myself included.
Let's try to clarify in detail: Montreal 1983 only though as this is what the thread was about.
Mr. Wilkes, that's some useful info there.
Blimey, I've only got about 78 Bowie bootlegs and feel sooo inadequate! But there is a limit to my attention span with this tour - and especially the next `87 one, which I prefer listening to than watching on DVD.
I also just bought this Montreal 1983 2CD set on the Golden Rain label and on first spin around it sounds pretty decent to me. It never stops for a breath though. 
You're welcome.
I know what you mean about the Glass Spider DVD - the sound quality there is pretty damn dreadful, in my opinion caused by the use of Dolby Digital stereo audio & a dreadfully poor fake 5.1 stream making it even worse. The CDs in the DVD/2CD set is the same show that will be in the new box set though so be aware of this - it is not a new show coming out for the first time, although it might be a new mix of it - we shall have to see

I also don't have much time for the SM tour or the GS tour - both were pretty damn awful. SM should have been so much better - and if Stevie Ray Vaughan had done the tour as intended it would have been, but Frampton on GS was to my way of thinking completely the wrong choice.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 8th, 2018, 8:15 am #49

neilwilkes wrote: You're welcome.
I know what you mean about the Glass Spider DVD - the sound quality there is pretty damn dreadful, in my opinion caused by the use of Dolby Digital stereo audio & a dreadfully poor fake 5.1 stream making it even worse. The CDs in the DVD/2CD set is the same show that will be in the new box set though so be aware of this - it is not a new show coming out for the first time, although it might be a new mix of it - we shall have to see

I also don't have much time for the SM tour or the GS tour - both were pretty damn awful. SM should have been so much better - and if Stevie Ray Vaughan had done the tour as intended it would have been, but Frampton on GS was to my way of thinking completely the wrong choice.
I hope they have fixed the sound / stereo balance on the Glass Spider show in the new box set.The one that came with the Glass Spider DVD has this issue around Scary Monsters and didn’t correct itself until a couple or so tracks later. It was like Bowie suddenly went to one side of the stage to sing, about half way through Scary Monsters if memory serves me correctly, although it’s been quite a while since I’ve played it, whist the rest of the band and their sound stayed where they were. Maybe it’s how it was meant to be, but either way it sounds awful and I found it very annoying. It’s most noticeable when listened to through headphones.

On the subject of the Serious Moonlight and Glass Spider tours, I don’t mind them to be honest. Serious Moonlight fairly rocks and it did have great song arrangements, also the Borneo Horns sounded fantastic. I think the show galloped along at such a rate and some of the tracks were shortened a lot because he was trying to cram as many of his well known songs in as quickly as possible, simply to showcase them to his new Phil Collins type audience.

Glass Spider was well OTT but probably not any more so than the original Diamond Dogs concept was back in 74. Glass Spider was basically just an over the top 80s update of that, and whatever the result it did set the template for many artist to follow in the years to come with regards to extravagant theme based rock shows.  

The two 80s tours were the only really good things to come out of the 80s for me as far as Bowie was concerned, although they pale when compared to his others. Baal was also worthwhile of course. At least with the 80s tours he was still actually trying to be David Bowie, where as with the three 80s Bowie albums he certainly wasn’t. To me anyway.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 18th, 2016, 6:51 pm

August 8th, 2018, 11:50 am #50

neilwilkes wrote: I also don't have much time for the SM tour or the GS tour - both were pretty damn awful. SM should have been so much better - and if Stevie Ray Vaughan had done the tour as intended it would have been, but Frampton on GS was to my way of thinking completely the wrong choice.
Yes, I was fairly disappointed in Frampton and expected more as he was a pale shadow of the guy I knew from Humble Pie's Rockin' The Fillmore, and talking of live albums, that's got to be in anybody's all-time top ten.
the future ain't what it used to be
Quote
Like
Share