Is Bowie's Vault Empty Of Unreleased Songs?

Is Bowie's Vault Empty Of Unreleased Songs?

Joined: May 9th, 2016, 12:41 am

August 16th, 2017, 2:13 pm #1

I don't mean alternate versions of released tracks but actual unreleased songs. Obviously the reason I ask is if there were completed songs these expensive box sets would be well-served to include them. They'd be the main selling point, no? Does anyone have a clue what's in the vault?
Last edited by MilitantVegan on August 16th, 2017, 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 16th, 2017, 2:51 pm #2

Many copyrights involved and the famous "quality control".The real gems are among some rich fans and the evil Inner Circle.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 17th, 2004, 7:51 pm

August 16th, 2017, 4:15 pm #3

I would be sceptical that there are many first rate, unreleased unknown songs in the vault. Throughout his career, whenever he has had good songs that didn't make it onto albums for whatever reason, he tended to get them out as b sides. The Rykodisc editions had a lot of new songs but few were first rate rate - Candidate and Some Are being the obvious exceptions. So my feeling would be that there may be a few first rate songs in there but not very many. Would love to be wrong of course . . .

www.davidpowercomposer.co.uk
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 16th, 2017, 4:21 pm #4

According Mr Rougvie, many songs was vetoed by Bowie.
Sweet Head was vetoed but released in the last hour
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 24th, 2008, 8:22 pm

August 16th, 2017, 9:27 pm #5

I challenge the "Inner Circle" to link to any great completed unreleased track.......

It's not the way db worked. He re used and polished. When he wasn't happy with what he got in the moment.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 11th, 2003, 8:21 pm

August 16th, 2017, 10:06 pm #6

okay - so, not including any of the Ryko's, any alternate mixes, live songs, demo's... and it still has to be considered "great"

Let's see - I'm sure I'm forgetting some:

C'est La Vie
April's Tooth of Gold
Shadowman (Original 1971 recording)
How Lucky You Are (Miss Peculiar)
Rupert the Riley
I've Got Lightning (I'm including this, as the Ryko release was, strangely, in both mono & edited)
Tragic Moments
Bowie & Iggy collaborations from '74-'75 ish
the original score to The Man Who Fell to Earth
Cool Cat
Is There Life After Marriage?
The alternate (original) score to "Buddha of Suburbia"
There's a few Tin Machine outtakes (including a cover of "All Tomorrow’s Parties")
The "Leon" Suites
Baby Universal (Earthling Re-Recording)
O Superman
Outside (Earthling Re-Recording, Gail lead vocals)
Trying to Get to Heaven
the soundtrack to Omikron
Skylife (apparently it's quite different from "Safe")
20th Century Boy (with Placebo, produced by TV)
Funtime (only the Dillinja Mix was released... and I don't think you can count the Bowienet Mix either as it wasn't in lossless)
most of the "Toy" album
Blaze


...yea, you're right - there's totally nothing in the vaults

Last edited by biro_the_leggy on August 16th, 2017, 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 16th, 2017, 11:47 pm #7

- bunny thing
- your funny smile
- pussy cat
- summer kind of love
- mother grey
- even a fool learns to love
- we should be on by now
- hole in the ground (1970)
- suck
- door
- invader
- cyclops
- it's gonna rain again
- only one paper left
- star 1971 demo
- i can't explain 1972 version
- ernie johnson opera
- going down
- shilling the rubes(takes 3 and 4)(reel 3)
- lazer(take 2 and 3)(reel 3)
- too fat polka (take 1 and 2)
- growin up(y.americans version)
- spirits in the night(1973)
- i am divine(bowie's vocals 1973)
- true blue(station sessions)
- drink with me
- turn blue
- moving on
- always crashing in the same car(different lyrics and extra verse)
- born in a ufo(1978)
- take it in right(1974 D.dogs take)
- candidate(demo- different version of ryko bonus)
- are you coming are you coming(1974)
- i am a laser(1979 version with astronettes lyrics)
- is there life after marriage(with iggy pop)
- bring me the disco king(1992 , 1995 and 1997 versions)
- modern love(1987 with tina turner)
- pretty pink rose(tin machine take 1988)
- tonight album demos and outtakes
- baby universal(1996)
- looking for sattelites(mandarin)
- safe in this skylife(rugrats version and first version with visconti)
- wheels(1975)
- my death(1972 studio version)
- sister midnight(1976)
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 24th, 2008, 8:22 pm

August 17th, 2017, 6:34 am #8

Most of those listed have either been released by now or were never finished/are working titles for tracks that were later finished and released under other names, so by definition were not complete, or were, possibly, not great.

But it would be great to hear anything more. I'm not holding my breath though.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 17th, 2004, 7:51 pm

August 17th, 2017, 7:03 am #9

Yes. The main exception for me would be TMWFTE Soundtrack. In an interview in the 70's, Bowie said he was furious when he heard his music would be considered for use as the soundtrack along with other peoples. He was furious coz he said he had put so much work into it. it was clear he believed in this music. So I just don't know why he didn't find a way to get this material out.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 14th, 2007, 8:06 pm

August 17th, 2017, 7:16 am #10

I think he was just saying that 'in character'. Accounts differ somewhat.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2014, 4:04 pm

August 17th, 2017, 8:31 am #11

Can't believe that the writer of this post is saying there's nothing left, look at the replies and stuff we haven't even heard of , remember Sweet Head, Candidate and Some Are , no one knew these existed until 90-91.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 9:45 am #12


I always enjoy this thread and the crazy notion that there are all these wonderful unreleased tracks in the 'vault'. The facts are that

a. the 'vault' was opened in the Rykos years and we got nothing much other than a couple of good Springsteen covers, a sub Sweet outtake in the form of Sweet Head and some early versions of tracks that were subsequently remade in a much improved form;

b. Bowie inc have released and released everything and anything that they thought might make a few quid over the years; the idea they'd pass on the opportunity to release material that would add to his legacy and would sell is simply naive.

And yet, the faithful cling to their fantasies...


Jon
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 4:58 pm

August 17th, 2017, 10:42 am #13

I reckon it'll be mostly live stuff that comes out. The Glastonbury set may be out for the next RSD on triple vinyl. TV has been tinkering with it.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 17th, 2017, 12:34 pm #14

Re: Unreleased Songs
Last edited by MGOSCH on August 20th, 2017, 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 12:40 pm #15

perhaps they'll send you it with the sigma sessions and that secret unreleased album he recorded specially for the inner circle in 1976...

Last edited by the_starman on August 17th, 2017, 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 17th, 2017, 12:45 pm #16

Re: Unreleased Songs
Last edited by MGOSCH on August 20th, 2017, 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 12:55 pm #17



take a look out of your kitchen window at the second apartment on the right, third window down. You'd be surprised what I know... but I wont give any details here.



Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 17th, 2017, 12:57 pm #18

yes...i see an old fat lady watching gay movies
nice to recognize you Jon;)
Last edited by MGOSCH on August 17th, 2017, 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 1:09 pm #19


LOL!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 8th, 2005, 1:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 1:11 pm #20

"you don't know absolutely nothing"

As my teacher at school used to say if you don't know nothing you must know something.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 1:19 pm #21


Nick, let's follow this logic and say (and god forbid this) you have a heart attack and you turn to me for help and I say 'i don't know nothing about the appropriate treatment of cardiovascular episodes' You'd take your old teacher's advice and think 'oh so he DOES know something' and ask me to treat you?




Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 8th, 2005, 1:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 1:57 pm #22

Jon believe it or not I have had 4 of them, luckily the Paramedics and ambulance staff knew something, but those cardiologists don't know nuffin.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 17th, 2017, 2:07 pm #23

"you don't know absolutely nothing"

As my teacher at school used to say if you don't know nothing you must know something.
Philippe Auliac must to know the truth
Last edited by MGOSCH on August 17th, 2017, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 3:42 pm #24

Jon believe it or not I have had 4 of them, luckily the Paramedics and ambulance staff knew something, but those cardiologists don't know nuffin.
@nick, oh you poor chap - i do hope that's the last of them. And glad to see your sense of humour is intact! Jon
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 8th, 2005, 1:53 pm

August 17th, 2017, 4:53 pm #25

@Jon, Thanks Jon i am doing ok , yes luckily my sense of humour is intact I just hope if there is anything left in those vaults they release it pretty quick.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 1st, 2016, 7:29 pm

August 17th, 2017, 6:18 pm #26

What would be even weirder than finding out that Bowie had bona fide good tracks unreleased in the vault that we'd never heard of before, or even a whole shelved album we didn't know about, would be discovering a 1971 version of Blackstar. Girl loves me could easily have been written in 1973 for example. It's happened a couple of times actually - particularly the scary monsters album which is a right old rummage through his waste paper basket but it would be really weird if even more recent stuff was actually a rerecording.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2014, 4:04 pm

August 17th, 2017, 7:03 pm #27

Bowie always seemed to be recycling stuff, Through 70s , 80s , I wouldn't be surprised !
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 4:58 pm

August 17th, 2017, 7:33 pm #28

I think Dollar Days is a recycled 60s ditty.

Kevin Cann might know
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 7th, 2004, 2:51 pm

August 17th, 2017, 10:41 pm #29

It was said that Bowie was compiling a box set of unreleased material during the last year of his life and that we may see it in 2018.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 17th, 2017, 10:55 pm #30

No way,the vault is empty.All Bowie's material was recycled for Blackstar and TND
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 18th, 2017, 1:18 am #31

anyway, i'll talk with Zysblat to know the truth
Last edited by MGOSCH on August 18th, 2017, 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 1st, 2017, 10:28 am

August 18th, 2017, 11:07 am #32

I don't mean alternate versions of released tracks but actual unreleased songs. Obviously the reason I ask is if there were completed songs these expensive box sets would be well-served to include them. They'd be the main selling point, no? Does anyone have a clue what's in the vault?
A friend of mine called Dorian Wathen oversaw the first Decca '97 anthology - its quite well recorded that a lot of what he requested was turned down from that era (according to Dorian a whole new album worth) despite much pleading with the Isolar office. H wasn't a big DB fan so couldn't tell me all the tracks but it did include various alternative takes and demos as well as unreleased material. I personally loved this era...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 4:58 pm

August 18th, 2017, 11:25 am #33

Tony Hatch recorded Bowie and his band before deciding to get in session musicians. I know this because he told me he has the recordings plus other stuff they were trying out.

There is material out there but as to whether it will see the light of day is debatable.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 14th, 2007, 8:06 pm

August 19th, 2017, 6:28 am #34

There's loads of home demos. I'd be happy with that - especially ones that were discarded or stripped out for use in other songs (like Tired Of My Life). Depends on the era I guess - 60s / Haddon Hall - loads of home 4 track material. We know it would be fascinating. I'm not sure Bowie's people would. I'm happy that we have the unofficial stuff that we do have.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 29th, 2007, 8:11 pm

August 19th, 2017, 7:27 am #35

TMWFTE soundtrack will never appear as most of it was used in one form or another on either S2S or Low
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

August 19th, 2017, 8:34 am #36

There's loads of home demos. I'd be happy with that - especially ones that were discarded or stripped out for use in other songs (like Tired Of My Life). Depends on the era I guess - 60s / Haddon Hall - loads of home 4 track material. We know it would be fascinating. I'm not sure Bowie's people would. I'm happy that we have the unofficial stuff that we do have.
I was listening to the raw demo of Quicksand last night, it has a lovely rawness to it.

They do have more stuff from the 'Space Oddity' era, as the (possibly slightly overdubbed) demo of An Occasional Dream shows they have the 'Beckenham Oddity' material in high quality form. Some Three Tuns recordings from 1969 would likely still exist somewhere.

The material from the Deram sessions would indeed be very interesting, as well as the Tony Hatch sessions.

The existence of Sweet Head, the different mix of Round and Round, the Ziggy Stardust demo suggest they have Ziggy offcuts, and we know there were loads of demos made in 1970-71 too.

I would love to hear a true stereo version of The Shadowman demo - there's a reasonable chance that would exist in the vaults somewhere. While some demos would be done in mono only if they were rough, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance a full band demo recording would have been made in stereo as it was standard by then...sometimes mono copies of recordings were made but stereo versions existed too (the 1971 radio concert is a classic example - still comes out in mono on the BBC box set, but the BBC issued a true stereo tape of most of the concert).

In fact a true stereo version of the Paris Cinema Studios 1971 concert, and the full Paris Cinema Studios 1970 concert would help bolster an 'early days' box set, as would a stereo take of the original version of Holy Holy.

I have not bought the last £100-£200 boxes. I would however quite happily spend such sums on a boxed set comprising demos and alternate takes over the years, it would be fascinating.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 19th, 2017, 8:52 am #37

Stranger

For something like this to be released, his estate would have to believe that a ragbag collection of off cuts, try outs and juvenilia that Bowie created before he found his 'voice' would add to the Bowie legacy and/or be commercially viable. I suspect that your money is safe in your piggy bank.

jon
Last edited by the_starman on August 19th, 2017, 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 20th, 2017, 3:29 am #38

Where's the files?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

August 20th, 2017, 10:54 am #39

Stranger

For something like this to be released, his estate would have to believe that a ragbag collection of off cuts, try outs and juvenilia that Bowie created before he found his 'voice' would add to the Bowie legacy and/or be commercially viable. I suspect that your money is safe in your piggy bank.

jon
putting down someone else's ideas or suggestions

Erm, the Bowie at the Beeb covered a similar period to the one I suggested.

Idiot
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 20th, 2017, 12:14 pm #40

I wasn't putting your idea down stranger! Sorry if it came across like that. I just don't think it's viable - commercially or artistically. The Beeb box had some prime 'ziggy' material as a selling point, and don't forget these things have to sell for them to make sense. And that does mean appeal beyond hard core fans like you and me.

I think the best we can hope for is the odd live album culled from a bootleg and, perhaps in time, another 'sound and vision' type box with a few more rarities thrown in. It'll be interesting to see what they have planned after the current box set series.

jon


Last edited by the_starman on August 20th, 2017, 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 4:58 pm

August 20th, 2017, 12:38 pm #41

Neon Permafrost is currently available at 83€ on coloured vinyl.

I would like to see BOS get the vinyl release it deserves. The Glastonbury 2000 set may be on the way.

Something will happen.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 21st, 2017, 9:26 am #42

I wasn't putting your idea down stranger! Sorry if it came across like that. I just don't think it's viable - commercially or artistically. The Beeb box had some prime 'ziggy' material as a selling point, and don't forget these things have to sell for them to make sense. And that does mean appeal beyond hard core fans like you and me.

I think the best we can hope for is the odd live album culled from a bootleg and, perhaps in time, another 'sound and vision' type box with a few more rarities thrown in. It'll be interesting to see what they have planned after the current box set series.

jon

According to Paul Buckmaster - who worked on TMWFTE soundtrack with Bowie and who still has a copy of the recording -
the only thing from the soundtrack that was ever reused in Bowie's subsequent work was part of a bassline in Subterraneans.
I know we'd all love to hear a soundtrack, but Jon's right - chances are, Bowie's estate aren't going to do anything for the 'hardcore'
beyond the occasional extra in a more commercially-orientated release.
Hence the Lodger remix appearing as part of this boxset at least 6 years after Visconti finished it.
Bowie himself had plenty of opportunities to 'open the vault' - with a few exceptions, he flatly refused to do so.
There's a clue there.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 23rd, 2013, 4:58 pm

August 21st, 2017, 10:12 am #43

I spoke to Keith Christmas years ago. He told me that Both Guns Are Out There was from something DB worked on possibly for the TMWFTE soundtrack.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 21st, 2017, 3:26 pm #44

Hasn't Keith Christmas also claimed at various times that his stuff was on Black Tie White Noise too
and that can't remember if it was the late '70s or early '80s when Bowie called him in?!
Can't remember if Buckmaster's ever mentioned any other musicians playing on the soundtrack other than him and Bowie,
but the fact that he actually got Buckmaster involved at all after all those years means he could quite well have
delved into the past and dredged up Keith Christmas too, eh!
Especially as Bowie had already done it once when he apparently auditioned him for the Diamond Dogs tour.
Interesting angle on it, Ena!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 4th, 2017, 11:29 am

August 25th, 2017, 12:51 am #45

- bunny thing
- your funny smile
- pussy cat
- summer kind of love
- mother grey
- even a fool learns to love
- we should be on by now
- hole in the ground (1970)
- suck
- door
- invader
- cyclops
- it's gonna rain again
- only one paper left
- star 1971 demo
- i can't explain 1972 version
- ernie johnson opera
- going down
- shilling the rubes(takes 3 and 4)(reel 3)
- lazer(take 2 and 3)(reel 3)
- too fat polka (take 1 and 2)
- growin up(y.americans version)
- spirits in the night(1973)
- i am divine(bowie's vocals 1973)
- true blue(station sessions)
- drink with me
- turn blue
- moving on
- always crashing in the same car(different lyrics and extra verse)
- born in a ufo(1978)
- take it in right(1974 D.dogs take)
- candidate(demo- different version of ryko bonus)
- are you coming are you coming(1974)
- i am a laser(1979 version with astronettes lyrics)
- is there life after marriage(with iggy pop)
- bring me the disco king(1992 , 1995 and 1997 versions)
- modern love(1987 with tina turner)
- pretty pink rose(tin machine take 1988)
- tonight album demos and outtakes
- baby universal(1996)
- looking for sattelites(mandarin)
- safe in this skylife(rugrats version and first version with visconti)
- wheels(1975)
- my death(1972 studio version)
- sister midnight(1976)
Am I the only one wondering how on earth you know this, especially what's on reel 3? I am very curious...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 25th, 2017, 1:27 am #46

It's simple , many contacts all over the Europe, people that's only use facebook .
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

August 28th, 2017, 8:58 pm #47

Hasn't Keith Christmas also claimed at various times that his stuff was on Black Tie White Noise too
and that can't remember if it was the late '70s or early '80s when Bowie called him in?!
Can't remember if Buckmaster's ever mentioned any other musicians playing on the soundtrack other than him and Bowie,
but the fact that he actually got Buckmaster involved at all after all those years means he could quite well have
delved into the past and dredged up Keith Christmas too, eh!
Especially as Bowie had already done it once when he apparently auditioned him for the Diamond Dogs tour.
Interesting angle on it, Ena!
I'm pretty sure there will be further box sets after they have exhausted these current volumes of previously released material.
probably a live series and a rare and unreleased anthology style series and then there's the visual side of it to consider.
and no doubt there will be the material we know of and stuff we never even knew existed.

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm

August 29th, 2017, 12:00 am #48

According a friend of mine, 2037 will be released an Anthology with ten...yes...10 volumes
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 14th, 2007, 8:06 pm

August 29th, 2017, 9:29 am #49

Sounds legit.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 6th, 2010, 9:13 pm

August 29th, 2017, 11:29 am #50

I wonder what will happen on the 8th of jan 2047. Bowie 100. Which will be a Tuesday.

If I'm still around I'd probably organise some sort of celebration in Bromley, although I would be 72.
Quote
Like
Share