Being Bowie, apparently.

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

July 31st, 2018, 4:59 pm #1

Anyone remember this silly bastard? He's a university professor you know. Well Kingston Poly. 

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 17th, 2009, 6:29 pm

July 31st, 2018, 11:22 pm #2

I wish somebody would sit him down for a serious talk about identity.
"Schtum!"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 1st, 2018, 5:59 am #3

Ha! I blame the state of  sections of academia that encourages this sort of cretinism - a course on David Bowie FFS! That'll help the poor buggers get a job.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 1st, 2018, 6:39 am #4

I got bored after about 15 mins but the gist is this guy was living as David Bowie for a year to see what it was like etc. Yes?

Surely if anyone wants to know what it’s like to try and live as David Bowie the easiest way would be to ask some of us who were around in the 70s. Many of us tried to do such a thing in our own ways via our youthful and looking back with an older persons hindsight, totally infantile infatuation with the guy.

Nice to know guys like this are eating up hard to come by funding in these austerity  days and are in positions to influence our impressionable future.

Not!
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 1st, 2017, 10:28 am

August 1st, 2018, 6:49 am #5

Totally agree with the above - e waste of public money on an ego driven crusade.

I just bet one person once said "oooh, you do remind me of David Bowie" - the comment that launched a totally unnecessary project of vanity, self indulgence and with nobody else benefiting apart form one idiot in Kingston.

Sorry...rant over.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 2nd, 2018, 11:04 am #6

Being Bowie?
Well he's being something, that's for sure...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 2nd, 2018, 12:07 pm #7

One thing though: He writes beautifully.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 17th, 2009, 6:29 pm

August 4th, 2018, 5:36 pm #8

That’s something, I suppose. Multitalented as Mr. Bowie was, he was no prose stylist.
"Schtum!"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 22nd, 2013, 1:28 am

August 5th, 2018, 3:37 pm #9

Poor soul
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 6th, 2018, 9:38 am #10

Reminds me of that bloke who decided to live as Ian Mackaye for a day, so he emailed Rollins, outlined the scam and asked if Hank wanted to come round and listen to some punk singles.
Rollins answered within 15 minutes: 'No.' 
That would've been my answer when this guy submitted his proposal for a grant to live as 'Dave'...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 6th, 2018, 11:02 am #11

This chap is trying to be Bowie, to me he certainly does a good impression of being Count Dracula. Looks wise anyway.  

One thing I think most of us seem to agree on is he is being a complete Dick.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 17th, 2009, 6:29 pm

August 10th, 2018, 8:10 pm #12

SomeAre wrote:Poor soul
Poor dunce.
"Schtum!"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 11th, 2018, 9:43 am #13

  His dressing-up sadly detracts from what is (I think so anyway) a fascinating study.  While it invites attention and no doubt enhanced the experience, it has sadly been of the wrong sort.  
The study is flawed for sure and Prof. Brooker you can be certain was well aware of that, but at the heart of the exercise is some scientifically valid research.  Similar things have been done where researchers have lived on the street to understand better the plight of the homeless.  Many will quickly point out, that it is of a known limited duration and that they do have a cosy home to go back to when it is over.  If they fall ill, they can postpone or even call off the experiment, it is not fully immersive.  The more immersed you are, the more you will come to understand the temptation to steal when your stomach is twisting with pangs of hunger, the embarrassment of not being able to bathe and the becoming used to it etc...
Have a glass of wine. Now drink the same with chocolate or cheese.  Have a beer at home or maybe in a pub a nightclub. Try it with a fag, a Mars bar or experience just how slickly (not) it goes down after a mint.  Every new element introduces a new experience.  Artists, writers, certainly composers will bombard themselves with stimuli when writing.  Many say this is necessary and they cannot write without the TV on or music blasting away in the background.
For Will Brooker to immerse himself in the pool of stimuli similar to that Bowie found himself in in order to form the basis of a book,  is a preferable approach to collating many of the wobbly "facts" found in other books.  
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 11th, 2018, 10:54 am #14

bianniottonaim wrote: For Will Brooker to immerse himself in the pool of stimuli similar to that Bowie found himself in in order to form the basis of a book,  is a preferable approach to collating many of the wobbly "facts" found in other books.  
What are you on about you silly bugger? Do historians have to live in their period to write about it, or scientists have to experience the disease in order to work out how to cure it? Did they have to go the moon to tell is isn't made of cheese? 'Scientifically valid research'???!!!  Even in the soft as shite social sciences, they understand the experimenter effect and danger that 'immersion' poses to any sort of objectivity. 


Oh and if you are going to try  make a point, at least be consistent in your 'argument': his 'dressing up' is essential to create his ludicrous experiment.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 11th, 2018, 1:20 pm #15

the_starman wrote: 'dressing up' is essential to create his ludicrous experiment.
Exactly.

Which is why a more accurate representation of what it was possibly? like to live as David Bowie is to ask those who were kids in the 70s. Kids who very seriously, if misguidedly, totally lived as Bowie and actually thought! they were him.

Frightening to think back to how a normal guy, even one as talented as David Bowie could exert so much intense influence over a fair sized portion of a generations young.

A less sinister form of radicalisation maybe?
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 11th, 2018, 5:56 pm #16

the_starman wrote:

What are you on about you silly bugger? Do historians have to live in their period to write about it, or scientists have to experience the disease in order to work out how to cure it? Did they have to go the moon to tell is isn't made of cheese? 'Scientifically valid research'???!!!  Even in the soft as shite social sciences, they understand the experimenter effect and danger that 'immersion' poses to any sort of objectivity. 


Oh and if you are going to try  make a point, at least be consistent in your 'argument': his 'dressing up' is essential to create his ludicrous experiment.
My argument is completely consistent, you merely misunderstand it.  I do not feel however, that the dressing up was essential as you claim.
My saying that it detracts and invites attention of the wrong sort, is a reference to how the study has been received by many, who rubbish it on the basis of how he looks.  You only need to read the comments above, to see that he has been judged on the basis of packaging . He would have been taken more seriously had he not dressed up.  That he did however, was important for a different reason.

We are all of course entitled to our opinion and free to express whatever that is and this is what most people do.  If you do not feel that it was a valid and scientific experiment that is up to you, you have your view and I have mine.  Opinion aside though.... You are wrong.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 11th, 2018, 6:26 pm #17

If you want the full immersive experience of living as David Bowie then adopting the dressing up is essential because that was part of Bowie’s overall mojo.

Doing these immersive experiments proves absolutely nothing. Only one person can possibly know what it was like to be David Bowie and that was David Bowie. Every one else immersive or otherwise can only guess what it was like to be him based on their own particular personal ideas and parameters. Hardly conclusive, scientific, factual, valid, or indeed a sensible way to spend hard to come by funding.

Behave yourself! We are quite capable and intelligent enough to look past the packaging and judge this for what it actually is. This guy is most likely an over educated, too much idle time on his hands, never had to do a proper honest days work in his life, who has learned about life via what he thinks is the real world on the college campus, type of guy.

Taking the piss out of him is about the only sane thing one can do towards a numpty like him. It’s just a crying shame the world is full of these idiots.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 11th, 2018, 8:19 pm #18

I am not at all sure that we all see this the same way.  Mr Brooker wanted to get a better understanding of Bowie not actually be him.  To understand is to feel. We can read what it was like on the Titanic the day it sank, but what if we were actually on it.  It is a very flawed study and as you say still subject to ones own experience, but would I not be able to say, that a diet of Milk and red peppers makes you feel this way or that way with more authority had I not tried it. What rushing around between interviews is like on such a diet.  Honestly that as far as it may be from absolutely/factually anything it is more insightful than a badly researched book.  There was much talk, not to long back here about Dylan Jones's book.  I never read it, so I cannot really comment on its content, but an earlier book which he wrote describing Bowie '72 appearance on TOTP's leaves me unimpressed.  He describes Bowie's Blue guitar as brand spanking new or words to that effect, how hard is it to get a detail like that right?
I have no idea how Brooker approached writing his book but he certainly put his work in.  
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 11th, 2018, 9:15 pm #19

So if what your saying is this Brooker fellow was only wanting to experience certain things Bowie did like rushing between interviews on a diet of milk and red peppers etc, then surely he should have been more accurate with his projects title and aims, and not  go around the various media circles claiming he was trying to actually be Bowie in interviews, hence the title of this thing, Being Bowie.

But he did do that though didn’t he, the bloke dressed up like him, literally acted like him, and all the rest of it. He basked in the publicity of telling whoever that he was immersing himself into Bowie’s persona. This Brooker fellow knew exactly what he was doing, and it wasn’t just trying to experience certain specific things Bowie did. He wanted to go the whole hog.

I mean if you want a proper warts and all insight on what it’s like to have a poor diet or take drugs for example, and the effect such things have on a person, then ask an anorexic sufferer or drug addict. You don’t need to waste a year or however long it was he wasted of life, and the funding he got, in order to get better, cheaper, and probably more accurate examples from those who are actually living such things with no cushy life style to fall back to after a limited time in order to learn about Bowie’s life styles.

Brooker is an attention seeking exhibitionist disguising himself as a self important academic, and he deserves the ridicule he gets.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 11th, 2018, 11:45 pm #20

You clearly are in possession of a different set of cogs SHHWEEET! 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 12th, 2018, 7:31 am #21

bianniottonaim wrote:


My argument is completely consistent, you merely misunderstand it.  You cannot possibly know what I 'understand', do you mean that I have misinterpreted you? Using the correct word will make having a discussion so much easier.

I do not feel however, that the dressing up was essential as you claim. I simply pointed out that 'dressing up' is a key element of the 'immersion' according to Prof Brooker (and he is a Professor not a Mr, a little respect for his professional accomplishments is in order I think) .  You claimed that his immersion gave him access to an experience that you seem to think will produce sort of 'scientifically valid'  knowledge.  It's hard to see how you could have one without the other, certainly Professor Brooker didn't think so.

My saying that it detracts and invites attention of the wrong sort, is a reference to how the study has been received by many, who rubbish it on the basis of how he looks.  You only need to read the comments above, to see that he has been judged on the basis of packaging . He would have been taken more seriously had he not dressed up.  I
It's hard to know exactly what you mean here. He dresses up as part of his method and gets some flak for it. So, according to your 'logic', if he hadn't' dressed up he'd have been taken more seriously. But of course, as 'dressing up' is an essential element in his immersion according to the experimenter himself, it's hard to know what his experiment would be in that case? What exactly is your point? 

 That he did however, was important for a different reason. No idea what this means, do you?

We are all of course entitled to our opinion  and free to express whatever that is and this is what most people do.  No, we're not. What 'entitles' someone to an opinion that should be respected or taken seriously? Simply expressing one? I am not entitled an opinion on a multitude of topics where I am simply not qualified or knowledgeable enough to have an opinion that has any credence.  Perhaps you didn't mean 'entitled'? Again, if you could make an effort to choose the right word it'll reduce the scope for misinterpretation?

If you do not feel that it was a valid and scientific experiment that is up to you. No, it's not up to me at all. Knowledge has been produced through a robust methodology (remember science is a method not an outcome) is a matter of  interrogating the process, my 'opinion' is neither here nor there.  

you have your view and I have mine.  About what? Opinion aside though....   What opinion are you setting aside?   You are wrong. Quite possibly, but about what specifically?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 12th, 2018, 9:07 am #22

the_starman wrote: Anyone remember this silly bastard? He's a university professor you know. Well Kingston Poly. 

I think you're being a bit silly now starman.  I also think that you are well aware of it.
This is an example of a far more qualified opinion, than the one quoted above.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 12th, 2018, 9:16 am #23

bianniottonaim wrote:
the_starman wrote: Anyone remember this silly bastard? He's a university professor you know. Well Kingston Poly. 

I think you're being a bit silly now starman.  I also think that you are well aware of it.
This is an example of a far more qualified opinion, than the one quoted above.
But, my view that his experiment is daft was not what we were debating; we were discussing your contention that he didn't need to dress up in order to carry out his experiment. Do try and stick to the point at hand, it's one of those little niceties that makes discussion possible.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 12th, 2018, 12:39 pm #24

It was not what he felt, I have no idea what he felt, I merely said, that dressing up as Bowie sadly detracts from the value of the study.  I do not feel that it was "essential" any more than dressing up a Jacob Aster to know what it feels like to be on a sinking ship.
To approximate the response Bowie received in the early '70's would be best achieved by not dressing as Bowie, but approximating something that would generate the contemporary equivalent of that response.  To get an impression of what Bowie "maybe" was feeling after that, a more accurate atmosphere would be experienced by not dressing up at all.  
  
It is very obvious, that you see the whole thing very differently than I do.  That is OK and YOUR opinion, which you are definitely entitled to and I respect.  I does not alter the fact however, that you are wrong.

Whether Prof. Brooker is a "silly bastard" and an "attention seeking exhibitionist" (SWHHEEET!) that is a matter of opinion of which I have no view, being unqualified to give one as I don't know niente. 
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 22nd, 2013, 2:53 pm

August 12th, 2018, 1:51 pm #25

bianniottonaim wrote: It was not what he felt, I have no idea what he felt  - You do realize that the second element of this sentence negates the first?  You are contradicting yourself.

I merely said, that dressing up as Bowie sadly detracts from the value of the study.  I do not feel that it was "essential" any more than dressing up a Jacob Aster to know what it feels like to be on a sinking ship.  Whether you do or not is irrelevant - he did. 'Being Bowie' required him to dress as Bowie. He makes this clear in interviews and in the documentary. Have you actually watched this documentary?  You also claimed that being immersed in a situation provided greater insight. Again contradicting yourself.

It is very obvious, that you see the whole thing very differently than I do.  That is OK and YOUR opinion, which you are definitely entitled to and I respect. I does not alter the fact however, that you are wrong.
What am I wrong about exactly? Are you able to actually identify that? It would help.
Last edited by the_starman on August 12th, 2018, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

August 12th, 2018, 2:27 pm #26

And do you know?  It is you that seem to be contradicting yourself continually from my point of view. 
Unless you are just a wind-up merchant "purely for the sake of it" sort? We may as well be speaking different languages,
of which, I must say, is also something that fascinates me.  I am however, going to say nothing more about the post.  
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 12th, 2018, 4:25 pm #27

bianniottonaim wrote: I am however, going to say nothing more about the post.  
Can I ask. Did you go to a college / university where professors like this chap give lectures? Is that why you think you know what he is about. I mean your view seems to be entirely different from what is the glaring obvious and what I suspect is the majority view of most people.

Indeed we are both working with different sets of cogs, however the cogs I work with make the world spin around as well as it possibly can, where as the cogs you and this prof use is one of the reasons why the world is slowly grinding to a halt and life is becoming bloody intolerable for most of us.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together. 👍
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 17th, 2009, 6:29 pm

August 12th, 2018, 5:13 pm #28

He’d have to spend an awful lot of time reading.
"Schtum!"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 13th, 2018, 9:25 am #29

'Taking the piss out of him is about the only sane thing one can do towards a numpty like him.'

Indeed. Which is exactly what the research board should've done when he presented his proposal to them and asked for the funding.
And if he's such a towering intellect, howcome he's employed at a former poly instead of a real university?
Heeee. Oh, ok, I'm just stirring it now...
Quote
Like
Share