Joined: October 7th, 2004, 2:51 pm

August 20th, 2018, 12:46 pm #51

Never heard it either.
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Joined: January 8th, 2013, 8:03 pm

August 20th, 2018, 2:48 pm #52

Can't say I'm a fan of this recording. I suspect this is largely due to the awful mixing of the  FM-broadcast and/or the quality of the version I have (a bad CDR-rip with a fair number of skips).

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Joined: March 6th, 2018, 11:47 pm

August 20th, 2018, 4:24 pm #53

Tony Visconti mixed the performance at 'the Atlantis' - so there's a chance it could eventually be officially released

Unfortunately, all of the bootlegs from this concert are sourced from a (lossy) digital broadcast 
(so that's why there's a fair amount of hiss + distortion)
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Joined: March 4th, 2009, 1:08 am

August 20th, 2018, 5:11 pm #54

Agreed. Even the so-called lossless bootlegs I’ve heard sound terribly compressed. Like garbled MP3s.

I didn’t know TV mixed the concert though. That’s promising.
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Joined: July 11th, 2004, 4:56 pm

August 20th, 2018, 11:14 pm #55

Yes, that is a good version of the song, I like it, although I also agree it's mangled as it's from a lossy broadcast - so it would make a worthy candidate for a non compressed CD release. Just listened to 'So She' from a non compressed master of the Next Day, it sounds wonderful.
The talk that crops up here about Bowie in the 80's or 90s onwards versus 70s Bowie...I understand those opinions, and think similarly a lot of the time (ie that Bowie in the 70s was better than any other time. However, the idea that his songs were no longer great after, say1995 or whenever, I can't agree with.
I can understand such opnions, but then tracks like So She and and Days (just listened to a vinyl rip I did of that), along with tracks like Dollar Days and Blackstar, and wonderful, and as good as album tracks from, say, The Man Who Sold the World, David Bowie (the Philips LP), and Lodger, and arguably better.
It's easy to generalise about "70s Bowie", and natural to do so, too, but there a lot of tracks I'd pick to listen to instead of, or as often as 70s songs that came afterwards. More of a slight drop-off in quality imo, than a huge one.
We need -
Cracked Actor on DVD!
Arts Lab recordings!
The FULL 1970 Paris Cinema Studios show - forget the mistakes, enjoy the vibe!
1971 Paris Cinema Studios in STEREO - it was on a BBC radio LP.
Glasto 71 too!
Release the archives, set them free...
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Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:16 pm

August 21st, 2018, 12:18 am #56

Completely agree. As well as the tracks you mention, I'd add The Buddha of Suburbia, Dead Against It, Untitled No 1, Strangers When We Meet, The Motel, I'm Deranged, Slip Away, Slow Burn, 5.15 Angels Have Gone, She'll Drive The Big Car, Bring Me The Disco King, I'd Rather Be High, You Feel So Lonely You Could Die, and Lazarus. It's all highly subjective, of course, but for me those songs easily hold their own alongside the best of the 1970-1980 period (and let's not forget that this golden era did produce a few stinkers - yes, TVC15 and Across The Universe, I'm looking at you...).
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Joined: January 8th, 2013, 8:03 pm

August 21st, 2018, 8:10 am #57

I became a Bowie fan at 18 in the nineties. I've had a few Bowie-albums on tapes (Ziggy and Heroes), but the first Bowie-album I've bought was Outside. It was mesmerizing, I couldn't stop listening to. The first time I've left Hungary on my own was in January for the 1996 Vienna show, that was a life altering night for me. 

For me, the nineties albums are as important as his seventies stuff. Every Bowie album has one or two tracks I tend to skip, apart from ZS. 
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 21st, 2018, 8:36 am #58

LuisKantor wrote: Completely agree. As well as the tracks you mention, I'd add The Buddha of Suburbia, Dead Against It, Untitled No 1, Strangers When We Meet, The Motel, I'm Deranged, Slip Away, Slow Burn, 5.15 Angels Have Gone, She'll Drive The Big Car, Bring Me The Disco King, I'd Rather Be High, You Feel So Lonely You Could Die, and Lazarus. It's all highly subjective, of course, but for me those songs easily hold their own alongside the best of the 1970-1980 period (and let's not forget that this golden era did produce a few stinkers - yes, TVC15 and Across The Universe, I'm looking at you...).

TVC15 and Across The Universe being stinkers?

TVC15 for me IS a sure fire Bowie classic, and Across The Universe gets a bad rap far to often from Bowie fans for my liking.

Everyone bangs on about the Beatles version of ATU. Ok it might be the original and it is a great version, but compared to Bowie’s YA version it lacks power and the oomph that Bowie’s gives the listener.

Beatles fans might be up in arms at that statement but as you say it’s all subjective.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: March 4th, 2009, 1:08 am

August 22nd, 2018, 3:34 am #59

I’m pretty excited about the new version of Glass Spider. Can’t wait to hear that one.
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 24th, 2018, 8:40 pm #60

I’ve been thinking some more about the merits of this 2018 NLMD offering.

Taste is the last threshold of shame. No one has ever said “Do you know what I wish I had worse taste” It is in this context that the new 2018 NLMD will probably excel so effortlessly upon its release. The problem of discovering new and toxic forms of vulgarity has been taken away from individuals by the music labels.  

How delicious to listen to something which says to everyone using the artistic equivalent of a permanently raised middle finger, I don’t care what you think, it’s Bowie, he apparently sanctioned it, besides it’s an improvement on the original, etc, etc.

They should have maybe titled this reworking, Never Let Me Down Taboo Edition, or perhaps the Never Let Me Down Kitsch Edition.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: February 24th, 2018, 11:05 am

August 25th, 2018, 2:35 pm #61

I hope it is avaiable on CD
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 28th, 2018, 12:08 pm #62

Odysseus wrote: I hope it is avaiable on CD
Only as part of the CD edition of the box set is my guess going by what’s been released as a stand alone CD release from the previous box sets. Viscont’s Lodger remix hasn’t been released separately, nor the recall discs.

To be honest no matter how good or not it turns out to be that’s where it belongs, in the box set.

Things like this are a curiosity for hard core fans, the Serious Moonlight disc, now that’s a different matter.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: February 24th, 2018, 11:05 am

August 28th, 2018, 7:49 pm #63

It's a shame as I would get this and Visconti's Lodger remix (although a kind soul on here let me have Lodger MP3s). I'm not a box set kind of person only having th eold Joy Division one . . .
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Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 29th, 2018, 9:17 am #64

I also probably would have got this and the Lodger remix, just as 'curios' if nothing else.
But fork out for a box set just to have a mildly diverting curio?
Nah.
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 29th, 2018, 9:44 am #65

I just think it’s a box set kind of thing. I don’t see them as stand alone proper albums, that’s like saying this is an alternative replacement for the originals and they aren’t. They are a curiosity nothing more. Interesting to listen to once or twice or whatever.

I fully expect nobody to agree with me on this. I just don’t want Bowie’s main back catalogue to be totally polluted by these money making marketing distractions.

Sorry and all, that but it’s how I genuinely feel.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 29th, 2018, 12:20 pm #66

SHHWEEET! wrote: I just think it’s a box set kind of thing. I don’t see them as stand alone proper albums, that’s like saying this is an alternative replacement for the originals and they aren’t. They are a curiosity nothing more. Interesting to listen to once or twice or whatever.
Yes, exactly, and part of a box set is probably the best place for them, really.
I probably would've got them if they were standalones, but like you say, they'd only ever be curiosities that I'd play a couple of times
and then shove in a wardrobe or whatever.
Some enterprising soul will probably run off copies for a tenner on iOffer or similar, so I suppose it would be easy enough if I was fussed, but...well, it's not as if Visconti's
remixed TMWSTW with Ronson's rhythm guitar parts at the right level, is it! 😉
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

August 29th, 2018, 1:57 pm #67

there's plenty of good reason why i'l be getting this boxset and nlmd 2018 is one of them, it will be interesting at the very least, and yes Vancouver is another. it's the most appealing set thus far.
on the back of this I've also tracked down an original cd version of nlmd with too dizzy which I managed to find very cheaply as it's value continues to rise.
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Joined: November 16th, 2014, 8:06 am

August 29th, 2018, 6:25 pm #68

Sylvianne : I've also tracked down an original cd version of nlmd with too dizzy which I managed to find very cheaply as it's value continues to rise.

Is it ?  I have a vinyl of NLMD with Too Dizzy. I am getting rich ?
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

August 29th, 2018, 6:26 pm #69

Believe it or not I found a NLMD CD with Too Dizzy in a charity shop for £1.50 about 5 years ago.

How much is it worth now?
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: January 16th, 2013, 6:11 pm

August 29th, 2018, 6:59 pm #70

You can pick up NLMD with Too dizzy on for around a tenner on ebay I would have loved them to have done a 2018 version of this song but i guess Bowie really hated it for me it is not the worse Day-in day-out is the track i skip most maybe that is because of the roller skating
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

August 29th, 2018, 8:03 pm #71

don't get too excited but it does seem to be creeping up gradually as i guess the new boxset and it's continued absence will generate a bit of interest. well it did for me but I've always liked the song too.
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Joined: January 16th, 2013, 6:11 pm

August 29th, 2018, 8:19 pm #72

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Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

August 30th, 2018, 9:44 am #73

SHHWEEET! wrote:Believe it or not I found a NLMD CD with Too Dizzy in a charity shop for £1.50
You have my condolences, Shhweeet!
I had to buy a lead-lined container from Sellafield to put my NLMD vinyl in, just so Too Dizzy didn't leak out and irradiate the rest of my records...
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

September 22nd, 2018, 6:40 am #74

SHHWEEET! wrote: How delicious to listen to something which says to everyone using the artistic equivalent of a permanently raised middle finger, I don’t care what you think, it’s Bowie, he apparently sanctioned it, besides it’s an improvement on the original, etc, etc.
Thinking some more about NLMD 2018.

We all keep referring to NLMD 2018 as a re recorded, re imagine, re working version of the original album because Bowie himself apparently expressed a desire to do it.

Here is something to consider. If Bowie expressed a desire to re record it, re work, re imagine it, surely he meant he wanted to actually re record his vocals as well. Obviously that’s not now possible because he has sadly passed away, so what we have here isn’t actually what Bowie meant when he expressed his desire to re do NLMD so Bowie’s apparent wish to re do it isn’t really a valid reason for NLMD 2018 to appear in the form it has.

Am I taking the apparent wish of Bowie’s to revisit NLMD to literal? Or is it a valid point that those who have done this and arguing for the validity of NLMD 2018 are just using Bowie’s apparent wish to re do it as an excuse to give this new version some legitmacey?
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:16 pm

September 22nd, 2018, 8:37 am #75

SHHWEEET! wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote: How delicious to listen to something which says to everyone using the artistic equivalent of a permanently raised middle finger, I don’t care what you think, it’s Bowie, he apparently sanctioned it, besides it’s an improvement on the original, etc, etc.
 If Bowie expressed a desire to re record it, re work, re imagine it, surely he meant he wanted to actually re record his vocals as well. Obviously that’s not now possible because he has sadly passed away, so what we have here isn’t actually what Bowie meant when he expressed his desire to re do NLMD so Bowie’s apparent wish to re do it isn’t really a valid reason for NLMD 2018 to appear in the form it has.
Completely disagree. Knowing that his time was running out, who's to say he wasn't the one who suggested that MM revisit the whole album and create new instrumentation around his existing vocal tracks - after all, isn't that precisely what db sanctioned when MM reworked Time Will Crawl?
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

September 22nd, 2018, 8:55 am #76

LuisKantor wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote:
SHHWEEET! wrote: How delicious to listen to something which says to everyone using the artistic equivalent of a permanently raised middle finger, I don’t care what you think, it’s Bowie, he apparently sanctioned it, besides it’s an improvement on the original, etc, etc.
 If Bowie expressed a desire to re record it, re work, re imagine it, surely he meant he wanted to actually re record his vocals as well. Obviously that’s not now possible because he has sadly passed away, so what we have here isn’t actually what Bowie meant when he expressed his desire to re do NLMD so Bowie’s apparent wish to re do it isn’t really a valid reason for NLMD 2018 to appear in the form it has.
Completely disagree. Knowing that his time was running out, who's to say he wasn't the one who suggested that MM revisit the whole album and create new instrumentation around his existing vocal tracks - after all, isn't that precisely what db sanctioned when MM reworked Time Will Crawl?
Fair point.  

If that was the case fair dos. I suppose now we will never know if that was the case or he meant completely re record NLMD with completely new vocals and everything.

I’ve got to be honest though, when I first heard the story he wanted to do NLMD again I thought he meant an entire complete new re recording of it.

But you could be right.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:16 pm

September 22nd, 2018, 10:43 am #77

I mean, when MM first played db the re-worked Time Will Crawl, db could have said "You know what? Let's re-record my vocals too" but he didn't. And (regardless of health issues which may have prevented him doing so) that in itself suggests db endorsed MM's approach of creating new instrumentation around the existing vocal tracks.
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

September 22nd, 2018, 10:50 am #78

LuisKantor wrote: I mean, when MM first played db the re-worked Time Will Crawl, db could have said "You know what? Let's re-record my vocals too" but he didn't. And (regardless of health issues which may have prevented him doing so) that in itself suggests db endorsed MM's approach of creating new instrumentation around the existing vocal tracks.
Here’s another thought to ponder.

If Bowie were alive today and expressed a desire to re do NLMD, would we prefer this 2018 NLMD approach or would we prefer a complete re working on the lines of the Toy tracks / album?

I’d go for the latter personally. That would be my preference.
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: July 24th, 2008, 8:22 pm

September 23rd, 2018, 6:51 am #79

It’s a big if, given his creative process was basically to move on always. That’s one of the reasons toy is so interesting. I’ve always assumed it was being a father again that sent him back to his earlier material but am happy to be corrected. But if he’d redone RLMD he’d have redone the vocals too I think.
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Joined: August 27th, 2012, 4:16 pm

September 23rd, 2018, 9:02 am #80

To answer both muzz08 and SHHWEEET! - have a read of the latest issue of Uncut. MM says that when db oversaw the first reworking of Time Will Crawl, he gave very precise instructions, but there was no suggestion of new vocals. It feels like you're both clutching at straws, desperately trying to find reasons to dismiss the new NLMD as inauthentic or misguided when all the evidence suggests that db hated the original and wanted to rework it in a fairly specific way that MM seems to have adhered to.

To say "if he was alive today and beginning the project now, it would sound different" is such a non-argument - you could say that about anything. If he were alive today and recording Hunky Dory now, it would be different; so what? The point is, he was alive for the genesis of the new NLMD project (the first re-recording of Time Will Crawl) and gave MM very specific instructions about how he wanted to rectify the sound of NLMD. It could be that db regarded the first reworking of Time Will Crawl as a kind of 'demo' for redoing the whole album and discussed further changes, developments and refinements with MM. But the fact that db was so delighted by the first reworking of Time Will Crawl suggests that it's pretty much how he imagined it at the moment when the process of reworking NLMD began in earnest - and that's the moment that counts. I know I'm not the only fan to make the point that the two tracks already released from the new NLMD sound like "proper" David Bowie records, whereas the original album didn't (but maybe that's an age thing: if you'd grown up listening to his 70's albums, Let's Dance, Tonight and NLMD were dispiriting aberrations. Maybe if those were the first of his albums you'd heard, you might be less critical of them?).
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Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

September 23rd, 2018, 10:30 am #81

Bowie liked it, only later to loathe it. Said he had total control and that the finished recording sounded much like his demos.....and that in a different interview had little to do with it.  The truth is, I feel he would also love this until/unless it was panned the way it originally was. 
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Joined: July 22nd, 2018, 8:13 am

September 23rd, 2018, 11:11 am #82

Speaking only for myself, I don’t think it’s a matter of clutching at straws. I’ve said in other threads that I’m prepared to give NLMD 2018 a fair hearing when the entire album is available to listen to, and here’s the thing, going by the two tracks already released I think I’m going to quite like it which I honestly never thought I would. Going by initial first listens anyway. Whether Bowie’s albums should be tampered with in this way is another debate / concern entirely.  

The reason I posted the last question to ponder is simply because if your going to redo something like NLMD which most agree is basically a turd whatever tinkering is done to it, and knowing Bowie as a forward thinking artist, I find it strange he would settle for basically the same album with just remixed in new instruments, loops, bringing to the fore previously hidden instruments within the original  mix, etc.

The Bowie I knew as a fan and loved would surely have took the basics of NLMD and totally reworked the whole thing into something entirely different including the very 80s sounding vocals and totally shite lyrics. If not then to me he really had lost his mojo.

As for whether NLMD 2018 is a legitimate / authentic  Bowie album? To me it never will be. Bowie wasn’t hands on with it whether he gave the ok or not. NLMD 2018 is a curio to be enjoyed, reviled, or whatever. To say it’s a legitimate bone fide David Bowie album is to say Club Bowie is! Albums and songs that have been buggered about by mixers, producers, or DJs are just that, albums and songs buggered about by mixers, producers, and DJs.

I don’t need to clutch at straws, my position on this is clear, and neither are my points brought up in  this reply a non argument but are in fact very legitimate points made I feel.  

As to whether the 2018 versions of the two currently released songs from the 2018 NLMD album now sound like proper Bowie songs / records, no they don’t! They sound like vastly improved songs from the NLMD album. We all know what proper Bowie songs / albums / recordings  should sound like, I’m sure I don’t need to list them all or go into detail with regards to the why’s and wherefores of that statement. Of course it’s subjective what makes a proper sounding David Bowie recording but I repeat something I said in another thread, if Bowie had released NLMD even in its current 2018 guise at the beginning of his career would it have served as the springboard for the artist he became famous for?

No it wouldn’t!!
SHHWEEET! IS....A self confessed, radicalised David Bowie knob ha! ha! I’m in good company. Let’s all celebrate together.
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Joined: July 24th, 2008, 8:22 pm

September 23rd, 2018, 11:49 am #83

I’m not clutching at straws either, in fact I’m not sure, with respect, quite what you mean in the context of this discussion, no offence. NLMD 2018 will be interesting of course, because of the fine musicians who’ve produced it. But there’s a massive difference between db leaving some notes about how he wanted it to sound, and being involved in the actual recording, particularly when you consider the way he worked in the studio. What is especially clever is it gives people a reason to be interested in this box, much of which many would otherwise take or leave. Imho. 
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Joined: October 31st, 2017, 11:06 am

September 23rd, 2018, 5:08 pm #84

"Oh yeah! Do the rest of the album" or words to that extent, is a note to self, or a tremendously arrogant statement at best.  Take it how it is and think what you like, isn't this touching up Leonardo's Mona Lisa's smile and still attributing it to Mr. Da vinci? Not sure myself, I think I side with SHHWEEET! 
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Joined: January 8th, 2013, 8:03 pm

September 23rd, 2018, 5:19 pm #85

Leonardo's Mona Lisa has been touched up multiple times. As virtually any other centuries-old paintings. And it's not like the original gets taken away from you. 
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Joined: April 20th, 2014, 4:04 pm

September 24th, 2018, 8:54 am #86

Now looking forward to this release. 
I will not buy the Vinyl box set ( as I did for ANCIANT) but I will wait for the Chinese boots on Cd. Even buying NLMD alone on Vinyl , (which I'm sure people will split up and charge the earth on fleese bay ) will be costly.
   Also thinking about Bowie re-recording his vocals when Time will crawl was re-released this would not have sounded right , vocals of a 60 year old for a 40 year olds album and i time scale of a 20year old album ( at the time ) nah ! 
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Joined: April 20th, 2012, 9:49 am

September 24th, 2018, 10:08 am #87

SHHWEEET! wrote:As for whether NLMD 2018 is a legitimate / authentic  Bowie album? To me it never will be...To say it’s a legitimate bone fide David Bowie album is to say Club Bowie is!
Absolutely. NLMD 2018 will probably be better than the original, but it's no more 'authentic' than Club Bowie -
maybe less so, as Bowie not only hasn't signed off on it, he hasn't even heard it.
As good as it might be, I'll only ever be able to view NLMD 2018 as a curio.  
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Joined: October 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm

September 24th, 2018, 9:05 pm #88

well so far what I've heard it's not better than the original. but the 2 tracks are probably my favourites from the album.
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Joined: October 15th, 2003, 8:16 am

Yesterday, 5:43 am #89

No more a Bowie album than the Elvis record that came out with the  Royal Philharmonic Orchestra is an Elvis record.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Suspected of being a shoulder surfer
But he didn't know from shit
About challenge response systems"

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