Finances

Finances

Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 10:12 am

October 3rd, 2010, 4:16 pm #1

I don't know if anyone else saw this. Looks like we're back in profit thanks to the Tevez money. Without it, however, we would have made around 12M loss...

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/ ... optimistic

Not a bad interest rate there Mr Mccabe ;)
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Duncan Disorderly
Duncan Disorderly

October 3rd, 2010, 5:12 pm #2

I'm a bit confused as to which year these relate to. It says 'last available figures' and '2009', well these were released last Autumn, but then goes on to give details that look like they could be from 2010, although this hasn't been released yet..? Is the source reliable or one of these 'write your own facts' sites?

Taking it at face value, if the club made a 6m profit and the loans were down from 48m to 35m, thats a 19m swing which would make it clear where the cash has gone, primarily debt reduction, (McCabes loans of course) and in putting some cash in the kitty for the rainy day that seem to be just around the corner. With the last of the big spending player contracts off the plate from this season onwards, then it does appear that the club is at least getting much closer to being self funding. However, we might be reading a lot into uncorroborated information.

I'll wait for the official 2010 Annual Report...
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Joined: February 14th, 2009, 7:37 pm

October 3rd, 2010, 5:18 pm #3

Very wise Duncs.
UTB
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bladeinthesouth
bladeinthesouth

October 3rd, 2010, 6:31 pm #4

I'm a bit confused as to which year these relate to. It says 'last available figures' and '2009', well these were released last Autumn, but then goes on to give details that look like they could be from 2010, although this hasn't been released yet..? Is the source reliable or one of these 'write your own facts' sites?

Taking it at face value, if the club made a 6m profit and the loans were down from 48m to 35m, thats a 19m swing which would make it clear where the cash has gone, primarily debt reduction, (McCabes loans of course) and in putting some cash in the kitty for the rainy day that seem to be just around the corner. With the last of the big spending player contracts off the plate from this season onwards, then it does appear that the club is at least getting much closer to being self funding. However, we might be reading a lot into uncorroborated information.

I'll wait for the official 2010 Annual Report...
Will include the sales from the 2 Kyles. Now that will be interesting to see how it makes things look.

When the 2009 figures get talked about, it is always the creditors and long term liabilities that get mentioned. Its broadly about £48m.

What is very curious is there is £21m in the CONSOLIDATED balance sheet under Debtors falling due after one year against £4m in the year previously. HOWEVER, in the COMPANY balance sheet (which I assume refers to the Football club) the figure is broadly the same year on year at £36m against £39m (A Drop in season ticket sales??). What it suggests is the Tevez money has not gone through the football club books but the groups instead.

It also suggests that we have a £3m drop in income to deal with in the running of the football club.

Does anyone have any idea when the 2010 numbers will be available?
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Reading Blade
Reading Blade

October 5th, 2010, 1:19 pm #5

Why would the Tevez money not go through the football books?

I'm not saying/suggesting anything sinister by it.. I just don't understand why?

I remain uncomfortable that a large part of our debt is linked to McCabe's property empire and not to football loses.

UTB

Reading Blade
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bedfordblade
bedfordblade

October 5th, 2010, 8:16 pm #6

Only money? Whose money is it? Is it ours? Is it McCabe's? What are our shares worth now? There has been a lot of smoke and mirrors ever since we left the AIM and things are not clear.
I have evry confidence in McCabe but he really needs to reveal exactly what the state of finances is and if any money is going from our club to the hotel, China, Hungary or elsewhere.
utb
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Joined: December 1st, 2009, 8:51 pm

October 6th, 2010, 12:46 pm #7

Will include the sales from the 2 Kyles. Now that will be interesting to see how it makes things look.

When the 2009 figures get talked about, it is always the creditors and long term liabilities that get mentioned. Its broadly about £48m.

What is very curious is there is £21m in the CONSOLIDATED balance sheet under Debtors falling due after one year against £4m in the year previously. HOWEVER, in the COMPANY balance sheet (which I assume refers to the Football club) the figure is broadly the same year on year at £36m against £39m (A Drop in season ticket sales??). What it suggests is the Tevez money has not gone through the football club books but the groups instead.

It also suggests that we have a £3m drop in income to deal with in the running of the football club.

Does anyone have any idea when the 2010 numbers will be available?
The £21m is the Tevez money, due in installments bewyeen 1 and 5 years. This is football club revenue.
The Company is the PLC (which owns the football club) which is why the Tevez due proceeds aren't included in those accounts. I think the amount due to the Company of £39m or so is payable by the football club because when shares were issued by the PLC the funding came into the PLC and was then loaned to the football club who spent it (on football and China).
These are 2009 numbers. I think the year end is 30 June, the 2010 numbers will be issued within the next 6 months or so I guess.
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Reading Blade
Reading Blade

October 6th, 2010, 1:08 pm #8

Thanks Hodge

Very concisely put. I understand a bit more now!

I guess the 2010 figures should be alot better than the 2009 ones, because although we've had a drop in revenue (I imagine) we've had a good installment of the Tevez money and the Kyle's money (installments?) plus what I imagine to be a large reduction in the wage bill?

Have to wait for the accounts I suppose... The 2009 ones made me nervous with the overall £48 million debt figure... This seems a seriously big figure to me! Although I understand that who you owe the money to and what the payment terms are, are very important.

I do hope that the transfer money/Tevez money is kept within the football club and not used for McCabe's other businesses/investments is China et al which appear not to have been of any benefit to the club whatsoever. (Happy to be put right on that as possibly ignorant of benefits).

UTB

Reading Blade
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Duncan Disorderly
Duncan Disorderly

October 6th, 2010, 3:47 pm #9

Just as a point of interest, Chengdu have been promoted back to the Chinese PL for next season. I have no idea of the riches there are to be gained, but presumably it is more lucrative than their last two seasons...
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Reading Blade
Reading Blade

October 6th, 2010, 3:57 pm #10

I've no idea either but interesting to know.

I've always, perhaps rather cynically, assumed that the Chengdu link was to provide McCabe a foothold in China for his property empire. Whilst I don't pretend to understand the Chinese property market I do not see the direct link (or any link) as to how it benefits United other than McCabe's level of wealth/prospects to invest.

It won't be in merchendising.
I can't imagine the prize money is any good.
TV rights can't be anything special
They certainly aren't a feeder club...(Let's not talk about the match fixing scandal over there)

I may be mistaken, but didn't we plough £2 million into Chengdu last year? For a club £48 million in debt (probably considerably less now), it doesn't make any sense to me.

McCabe may have been the best chairman in my memory but that's perhaps only because the rest of them are wanted by Interpol or other criminal agencies! Ok I exaggerate slightly.....and I think overall he's done ok (apart from Robson, which I agreed with at the time).

I'm not asking McCabe to plough money in or risk money on players and wages we can't afford but I can't help but think that the Chengdu/Feranvacos/Hotel/Central Coast Marriners stuff is not in the FOOTBALL clubs best interest.

I'm interested as to what everyone else thinks about this.
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