Who was Artie Seaberg?

Who was Artie Seaberg?

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 26th, 2018, 5:36 pm #1

He was born Arthur Leonard Sjoberg.
He was a member of the ODJB.
He met Leon Bismark "Bix" Beiderbecke in November 1922.

http://bixography.com/ArtieSeaberg.html
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 26th, 2018, 5:40 pm #2

The images do not appear in the webpage. I am working on it.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 26th, 2018, 6:51 pm #3

Fixed, images appear on the webpage.
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Joined: March 29th, 2018, 12:06 pm

May 27th, 2018, 1:12 pm #4

I'm sorry to say that Haim's treatise on Artie Seaberg contains some glaring mistakes.
Just two examples:

- Larry Shields did not leave the ODJB "at the end of 1922". The correct date was December 20, 1921 (and there wasn't "a heated discussion about financial matters" between LaRocca & Shields)

- The LP GAPS 190 does not contain "Some Of These Days" from the November 1922 OKeh session - the LP of course reissues 71043-F  from the January 1923 OKeh session.

Furthermore, I wonder why Haim did not elaborate on the circumstances leading to Seaberg joining the ODJB in April 1922 ...


Ralph Wondraschek
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 27th, 2018, 1:59 pm #5

Since you know so much, tell us.

 I quoted Brunn: "At the end of 1922, according to Brunn, Larry Shields and Nick LaRocca had a heated discussion about financial matters and Larry Shields left the band." You write:" Larry Shields did not leave the ODJB "at the end of 1922". The correct date was December 20, 1921 (and there wasn't "a heated discussion about financial matters" between LaRocca & Shields)." Wondraschek, provide the correct information and documentation.

You wrote: " I wonder why Haim did not elaborate on the circumstances leading to Seaberg joining the ODJB in April 1922." Instead of wondering why don't you elaborate?
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 27th, 2018, 3:04 pm #6

From pages 224, 225 of Brunn's book:
"As the bigger jobs thinned out, however, Larry Shields again grew moody. LaRocca had paid Shields' way from New Orleans in July, including hotel bills and living expenses until the band got working, and now an argument ensued between the two of them concerning financial readjustments. Larry considered the whole thing part of LaRocca's business investment, and since Nick was getting twice as much of the profit as anyone else, didn't feel obligated to pay anything back. It was a philosophical question, with each man sticking obstinately to his own view. After a heated discussion Larry packed up and headed for home, and Nick called upon Artie Seaberg to take his place at Proctor's Theater, Schenectady, New York, on December 4."

Yes, I acknowledge that I misinterpreted this to be 1922 when it was much later, The correct date is given in page 163.

"The Original Dixieland Jazz Band might have
carried its successful tour into every state in the union,
had it not been for the replacement problems that con-
tinued to haunt it. The temperamental Larry Shields,
who had threatened to quit so many times that his warn-
ing was no longer taken seriously, submitted his two-
week notice to LaRocca on November 29, just seven days
before the band was to begin its two-week run at Jack
Fiegle's Dance Palace in Philadelphia. Larry always
hated New York, which he called a "cheese town," and
now the endless town-hopping and living out of a suit-
case had worn him down. Homesick for his wife, who
ran a beauty parlor in Hollywood, he was now deter-
mined to settle down in California. He remained with
the band for the duration of the Jack Fiegle job, and on
December 20, 1921, unscrewed his clarinet and packed
it neatly into its long, narrow box."
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Joined: March 29th, 2018, 12:06 pm

May 27th, 2018, 8:54 pm #7

ahaim wrote: Since you know so much, tell us.

 I quoted Brunn: "At the end of 1922, according to Brunn, Larry Shields and Nick LaRocca had a heated discussion about financial matters and Larry Shields left the band." You write:" Larry Shields did not leave the ODJB "at the end of 1922". The correct date was December 20, 1921 (and there wasn't "a heated discussion about financial matters" between LaRocca & Shields)." Wondraschek, provide the correct information and documentation.

You wrote: " I wonder why Haim did not elaborate on the circumstances leading to Seaberg joining the ODJB in April 1922." Instead of wondering why don't you elaborate?
Haim, if you would have taken the trouble to consult the second part of my piece on the Original Memphis Five, published in Vintage Jazz Mart ( http://www.vjm.biz/179-om5-part-2.pdf ), you could have avoided those mistakes, and also gained insight to the information you're now asking me to provide.
I don't have the time (& desire) to correct and augment your rather sloppyish research - you should have felt the urge to do some real research, and especially to consult the available primary sources (like microflims not yet online) by yourself !

Ralph Wondraschek
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 27th, 2018, 10:36 pm #8

Wondraschek: you are a plagiarist, Compare what H. O. Brunn.  wrote in "The Story of the Original  Dixieland Jazz Band"  

"a personal feud between Johnny Costello and Frank Signorelli quickly came to a head. When a choice had to be made, Costello was the one to leave and was replaced"

and what you wrote in http://www.vjm.biz/179-om5-part-2.pdf

"a personal feud between Costello and Frank Signorelli came to a head. When a choice had to be made, Costello was the one to leave, and was replaced "

The removal of the word "quickly" does not change anything, nor does the bibliographic reference at the end of the sentence. Words lifted from another writer must be given with quotation marks: you are guilty of plagiarism.

See http://philosophy.wlu.edu/gregoryp/class/QCP.html

"This is plagiarism. By not using quotation marks, you are presenting someone else’s words (and, hence, their work or ideas) as your own. It makes no difference that you have included a citation, nor that you have slightly altered the text, the lack of quotation marks implies that the words/ideas are your own, which they are not."
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Joined: March 29th, 2018, 12:06 pm

May 28th, 2018, 9:23 am #9

Yes, the idea that Costello left the ODJB was not my own - I've consulted the LaRocca archive at Tunane University, N.O.. Furthermore, I've clearly stated "This is the version as it appears in Brunn's book". In the next sentence, I've DISPELLED Brunn's/LaRocca's 'idea' by showing that Costello is NOT listed in the December 24, 1921 contract.

What you're doing in your last post here is nothing else then trying to distract from the fact that I've revealed the sloppishness of your "research".
Haim, do your homework, and consult PRIMARY SOURCES.

Ralph Wondraschek
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 28th, 2018, 12:19 pm #10

Wondraschek: I provided documentation that demonstrate incontrovertibly that you are a plagiarist. Your refusal to acknowledge this fact further demonstrates that your breach of ethics is not an isolated incident.
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