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verkuilb
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Joined: August 10th, 2002, 10:46 am
GeoNit, I did a more detailed review of your matrices--and in addition to the typo KeenWink pointed out earlier, there are other bid possibilities missing:

One Acceptable/Five Free Rebids is missing:
ACDF
ABCDF

One Acceptable/Six Free Rebids is missing:
ABFG
ACEF
ACEG
ACFG
ABCEF
ABCEG
ABCFG
ABDEG
ABDFG
ACDEF
ACDFG
ABDEFG

Two Acceptable/One Free Rebid is missing:
AB

Three Acceptable/One Free Rebid is missing:
ACD

Three Acceptable/Two Free Rebids is missing:
AB
AC
BC
ABC

It's obvious that you have enough knowledge of the permutation determination to know where in the lists these should be inserted.

Thanks again for all your work on these!

--Bill

p.s. As a doublecheck when creating matrices such as these, you can use Pascal's Triangle to determine how many occurances there should be of each quantity of terms. You can use it directly on "1 Acceptable/X Free Rebids", but you have to do a modified version when you have multiple acceptable zones.

When doing "1 Acceptable/X Free Rebids", the zero-th row of the Triangle (normally called "Row Zero", and consisting simply of "1") applies to "zero rebid zones"; the first row (consisting of "1 1") applies to "one rebid zone"; etc. For example, for six rebid zones, you need the sixth row of the Triangle, which is "1 6 15 20 15 6 1". This means that there will be one bid with one zone ("A"), six bids with two zones ("AB", "AC", etc.), fifteen bids with three zones ("ABC", "ABD", etc.), twenty bids with four zones ("ABCD", "ABCE", etc.), fifteen bids with five zones ("ABCDE", "ABCDF", etc.), six bids with six zones ("ABCDEF", "ABCDEG", etc.), and one bid with seven zones ("ABCDEFG"). If you've put together a "One Acceptable/X Free Rebids" matrix, and you don't have the appropriate number of terms per the Triangle, you've missed some. I won't get into the details about how to apply the Triangle to multiple acceptable bid zones--it needs to get multi-dimensional, which gets rather complicated, and is hard to describe via text--but it also works there.

Wikipedia entry on Pascal's Triangle

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Joined: July 31st, 2002, 1:00 am
I wonder about one aspect - I have not tried to exhaust the bids but I recollect that when I bid in A and then in B, when I tried a bid including both A and B, I recollect it was not allowed because I had bid on both already. Or not?

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verkuilb
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Joined: August 10th, 2002, 10:46 am
Virageadroit--Nope. Unless you had a previous bid that included BOTH A and B, any new bid that includes both A&B will be accepted, as you haven't bid that particular combination before. If you previously bid A, and then B, you can then bid AB. If you previously bid A, and then B, and then C, and then AC, and then BC, you can still bid AB, as no previous bids have included both A and B. After that, you can also bid ABC, as no previous bid included all three zones.

Where you'll get locked out is if you were to bid A, then B, then C, then ABC--and then try to bid AB. You have a previous bid that included both A and B already, so this new bid is locked out.

The rule is that any new bid cannot be the same as a previous bid, and cannot IN ITS ENTIRETY have been part of any previous bid.

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Joined: July 31st, 2002, 1:00 am
Verkuib - so if I am bidding on two 3* zones, either of which is acceptable, A and B, and each bid has been rejected then I can do a new bid for A and B 3*. WhileI usually have dealt with multiple zones as free rebids, in some areas, such as NYC, I will be interested in mutliple zones at equal levels. So I could do MTE 4* and then MTW at 4* and then MTE and MTW in one bid at 4*. Then I could add rebid zones to each and then combine. So the possibilities for a situation with equivalent zones includes a whole new set of combinations in addition to the sum of the of combinations for each zone. Whew.

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GeoNit
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Joined: July 10th, 2003, 12:08 am
Virageadroit, if you scroll up to my original post on this thread, you will see three bidding matrices for two acceptable zones:

Two Acceptable Zones / One Free Re-bid Zone
Two Acceptable Zones / Two Free Re-bid Zones
Two Acceptable Zones / Three Free Re-bid Zones

You can use these bidding patterns, designating MTE and MTW as your two acceptable zones (A and B) and your free re-bid zones as C, D and E, depending upon how many free re-bid zones are currently available.

You also might want to look at this 2003 thread by Robb that started a few weeks before I made my first permutations-type Priceline bid:

p070.ezboard.com/fpriceli...=165.topic

Since the Robb 2003 thread includes a 2004 post by Verkuib expressing interest in the maximizing free re-bids topic, I suspect that this Robb post is the mother thread for all subsequent permutations BFT threads.

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verkuilb
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Joined: August 10th, 2002, 10:46 am
Yes, Geonit--that's the one that got me started on this whole concept. And it was also part of the reason that I posted my permutations post--Despite the fact that the original author of that post (Robb) appears to get the concept, a number of other people who posted in that thread clearly don't fully understand the concept, and seemed to be confusing newcomers to the idea. I think both your and my posts go a long way to providing a far more clear explanation.

If you didn't see my post about five up from this one, you may want to, and then edit the original post in this thread accordingly. There are a number of bid combinations you clearly intended to have in your lists, which were missing.

--Bill

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GeoNit
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Joined: July 10th, 2003, 12:08 am
Yes, Verkuilb, thanks for your reminder. I'll be updating the misisng items in the matrices soon.

Looking back over my hand-wriiten notes, several of the combinations were lost between notepad and computer. My problem is that I've got trifocals and maturing cataracts that should be ready for surgery soon. I seem to have more difficulty reading vertical columns than reading horizontal lines. Hopefully, I'll be able to get the surgery before it limits my driving.

-- George

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Joined: September 26th, 2007, 5:45 pm
Newbie here. Great matrix, amazingly enough, I actually got it! However, I didn't follow GeoNits' second message regarding how to determine which zones offer what hotel star levels. His instructions are as follow:

1) Go to the Priceline hotel zone selection page for the city where you will be bidding.
2) Under "Step 1" -- place a check mark in the box of the first zone as though you were going to bid that zone.
3) Scroll down to "Step 2" and note the available quality levels, which will be highlighted in blue for the first zone.

I go to the "Name Your Own Price" page and I see the 3 steps. But when I place a check mark in my first zone, nothing is highlighted in Step 2. In fact, there are only java links in Step 2 that show what each star level represent.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

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verkuilb
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Joined: August 10th, 2002, 10:46 am
One of three things is happening...

1) You're simply misunderstanding the instructions. When you choose one or more zones, only the star levels available in those zone(s) will be in blue with java links. The rest will be in gray (but will still have active java links). If you're selecting a zone, and are seeing all the zones in blue, that's all the "highlighting" that will occur, and it means that hotels of all star levels are available in that zone. (If this is the first time you've done this, and by chance you're choosing a zone that has all star levels available, I can see how you might get confused.) To see what it looks like when some star levels aren't available, try another zone and/or bidding area. (For example, try starting a bid for New York City, and select the "Upper West Side" zone. 1, 2, and 2.5 star hotels are available and become highlighted in blue. 3 and 4 star hotels are not available in this zone.)

2) It's my understanding that this Priceline screen doesn't work properly using one specific browser on a Mac. If that's the computer you're using, do a search on this site, and I'm sure you can find the info on which Mac browser doesn't work and which one does.

3) You've stumbled upon a Priceline glitch, either temporary or long term. If you think this is the case, try it again. If you're still having the trouble, post the details (such as the actual bid city, zones, etc.) in a new thread on this board (but don't just reply here--this thread should try to stay germaine to permutation bidding specifically), and someone here will try to help you through it.

--Bill
Last edited by verkuilb on June 26th, 2008, 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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